Which T has more potent venom, Cobalt Blue or Horned Baboon?

[Andrea82]

While in NW's ones we can even High (ops, Eight) Five them

Lol, I added something about NW getting defensive as well when disturbed in their burrows, but edited it last minute to stay on topic for a change

 

[Nightstalker47]

lividus...no question...they also have tendencies to bite repeatedly...super duper defensive.

That's doesn't make their venom any more potent, just means they are more defensive. The venom potency of Theraphosidea is largely unknown for the most part, all we have are reports of people being bitten to rely on, no real conclusive evidence to back up your claim.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

The venom potency of Theraphosidea

I love that you written 'dea'. Dea in Italian means 'Goddess', so... praise the Goddess!

 

[Chris LXXIX]

That's doesn't make their venom any more potent, just means they are more defensive.

Well, as you said we have the bite reports only (and assuming that all of those were fair enough and not hyped, of course) to rely on since majority of us never got tagged, but from the little I was able to know in all of my T's years, is that on a mere one "Bite VS Bite" one talking only, the blue thugs are more potent than a Ceratogyrus darlingi or a C.marshalli.

 

[Nightstalker47]

Well, as you said we have the bite reports only (and assuming that all of those were fair enough and not hyped, of course) to rely on since majority of us never got tagged, but from the little I was able to know, in all of my T's years, on a one "Bite VS Bite" one talking only, the blue thugs are more potent than a Ceratogyrus darlingi or a C.marshalli.

I agree, the C.lividus would of been my guess as well. But it isn't a fact that lividus is worse... we have no clue which one is more potent.

 

[Andrea82]

Of course different people may react differently to the venom, but which of the following species is generally considered to have the more potent venom: Cobalt Blue (Cyriopagopus lividus) or the Rear Horned Baboon (Ceratogyrus Darlingi)? Help much appreciated!

An interesting take and some papers on Theraphosidae venom is discussed in the sticky 'tarantula venom and anaphylaxis' in the subforum 'tarantula questions and discussions'.

 

[cold blood]

That's doesn't make their venom any more potent, just means they are more defensive. The venom potency of Theraphosidea is largely unknown for the most part, all we have are reports of people being bitten to rely on, no real conclusive evidence to back up your claim.

Bite reports ive read lead me to believe lividus is much more painful and for a longer time. And it seems more likely to cause conditions that send people to the ER...like nausea and heart palpatations.

Most Ceratogryus bites just describe pain, and not for extended time periods like with lividus and other Asians.

The reports ive read for Ceratogryus dont seem all that severe in comparison.

 

[KezyGLA]

Sorry, grabbed a C lividus? Like pick up the spider with her hands!?

Yes, yes she did

 

[KezyGLA]

WHAT??!!!! Did you get it back?

Yes it is safe an sound and she sold today

 

[Chris LXXIX]

^ ^ Ah ah I love the 'shifty' face especially when combined with Andrea82 'smh'

 

[Venom1080]

Yes, yes she did

wow, ignorant nut.

 

[Nightstalker47]

Bite reports ive read lead me to believe lividus is much more painful and for a longer time.

Yeah well thats exactly my point, some people are far more sensitive to pain then others, and many may of only been bit by a single species and have nothing else to reference it to.

All these bite reports are based of a single persons perception, some could describe it as terrible and others as mild. There is a huge gap in individual perception of pain, wether were talking braking bones or getting tagged by a venomous T. When you go out and say "out of the question...lividus is worse" your stating things as fact, and that's inaccurate. I agree that lividus is probably worse but I'm not saying it is without question. The only way you could accurately know this is if you've been bit by both species.

 

[cold blood]

what i referenced was more than just pain for lividus....yes pain levels differ, but those extra effects above just simple pain is why lividus is worse.

Im talking about heart/breathing issues associated with Asian bites...those things that change a persons view from, i will just wait it out, to i gotta go to the hospital.

 

[Nightstalker47]

what i referenced was more than just pain for lividus....yes pain levels differ, but those extra effects above just simple pain is why lividus is worse.

Im talking about heart/breathing issues associated with Asian bites...those things that change a persons view from, i will just wait it out, to i gotta go to the hospital.

What is there to disagree with? Everything I stated was true, clearly we aren't on the same page.

Would you trust someone to give you medicine if all you knew about the medicine was different accounts of people's experiences using it? Would you trust one persons reaction saying it's more powerful then the next person? I think not, you would want some real evidence, something that has been studied and proven to be safe to use.

I look at venom potency the same way, if it hasn't been proven scientifically I won't trust that one spider is 100% more venomous then the next merely based on opinions, individual perception, etc...

 

[Grimmdreadly]

Not to be rude or anything...but that was not the smartest thing to do. Hands have no business in an OW Theraphosidae enclosure, no matter how 'starter'-friendly they are. I would have just left the old waterdish and added a new one.

It's something I've done a few times with species such as L.violocepes, P.Ruffilata, C.Darlingi, C. Marshalli, and A.Enzedami with no problems. But I got way too cocky. I haven't done that in years, though

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Yeah well thats exactly my point, some people are far more sensitive to pain then others, and many may of only been bit by a single species and have nothing else to reference it to.

All these bite reports are based of a single persons perception, some could describe it as terrible and others as mild. There is a huge gap in individual perception of pain, wether were talking braking bones or getting tagged by a venomous T. When you go out and say "out of the question...lividus is worse" your stating things as fact, and that's inaccurate. I agree that lividus is probably worse but I'm not saying it is without question. The only way you could accurately know this is if you've been bit by both species.

I don't disagree. I mean, your points are valid. While starting from the premise that, again, for me the blue eight legged are more baddy on that sense (I didn't heard about those kinda heart side effects with genus Ceratogyrus bites) every of us are different at the end of the day.

We have a different height, age, weight, disease/s (yes, disease/s... there's people out there that thinks to be perfectly healthy but maybe they aren't so healthy) and, of course, pain individual perception level that, while in good faith, can 'cloud' a bit the bite reports we read and we have to rely on at the end.

 

[cold blood]

What is there to disagree with? Everything I stated was true, clearly we aren't on the same page.

Would you trust someone to give you medicine if all you knew about the medicine was different accounts of people's experiences using it? Would you trust one persons reaction saying it's more powerful then the next person? I think not, you would want some real evidence, something that has been studied and proven to be safe to use.

I look at venom potency the same way, if it hasn't been proven scientifically I won't trust that one spider is 100% more venomous then the next merely based on opinions, individual perception, etc...

the disagree was accidental...didnt notice i bumped it...i hate having to use my phone.

i do disagree though...what people say and experience is what we have to gauge it on...you simply cannot discount the best proof because you have trust issues with people...lol.

ive trusted people to give medicine lots of times...lol...not strangers mind you. bacically yes to all that "would you"....lmao

 

[Chris LXXIX]

i hate having to use my phone.

And I miss your old style pics... kinda sort of genuine old of once :-/

 

[cold blood]

And I miss your old style pics... kinda sort of genuine old of once :-/

you mean the pics i got made fun of for posting?

 

[Jeff23]

Unfortunately there are no lab tests for humans because none of you were willing to volunteer.

Some tests that were done occurred for mice. Neither T mentioned in this thread is listed in that test. But Cyriopagopus paganus, Ceratogyrus marshalli, and Ceratogyrus brachycephalus are listed in the laboratory test.

The kill time for the mouse for both Ceratogyrus is a lot longer than for the Cyriopagopus. The test is further interesting in that a a couple NW T's included in that test can kill a mouse faster than these Ceratogyrus species.

Of course this doesn't translate to the impact on a human at all. Having said that, it most certainly would impact my decision if I was forced to choose which one will be allowed to bite me. I would choose Ceratogyrus to bite me before Cyriopagopus any day based on available information.