Which is worse? Scolopendra dehaani or gigantea

[NYAN]

Ethmostigmus Spinosus and a few others.

I hear this but I see no evidence to support it.

 

[Staehilomyces]

Only a single bite report associated with E. rubripes spinosus. My personal theory is the guy who took the bite (mike) had developed an immunity to Scolopendra venom (pede bites didn't seem to bother him much at all, even dehaani) but not Ethmostigmus venom.

 

[NYAN]

Only a single bite report associated with E. rubripes spinosus.

Exactly. I don’t see this as enough to develop any idea about the venom. There’s no bite report either.

 

[patrick nimbs]

Well you just turned round and said what I usually tell everyone: bite comparison without dosage information is useless, so I take my words back, In fact you can find my own comment under your thread echoing pretty much the same.

The flip side to this, is that we rate bite severity between animals based on what a typical (yes, I agree there may be no such thing) bite delivers, not its absolute LD50. If a tiny spider was found to have a super potent venom but could never inject enough to cause harm, we wouldn't list it as deadly on account of it technically having a very low LD50. If a centipede species almost never injects a full whack - is it much to be concerned about?

But going back to being pracital rather than technical - everyone I've known who has taken a bite from a white leg (including my friend who said he's taken multiple hits) said it wasn't that bad, and I'm yet to hear of anyone getting bitten by a dehaani (bar Mr.Hernandez) who said it was anything other than sheer pain.

I suppose that raises some questions:

1. Do dehaanis inject more venom in each bite?
2. Do white legs inject very little with each bite?
3. Do dehaanis also inject very little, and what would happen if you got a full pump?

And another factor rarely discussed is sex. Female Scolopendra hardwickei are known to have different venom composition to males, and it is even a different colour. Some species have a high gender imbalance, at least in captivity (hardwickei as an example again, where it is sometimes impossible to find a male in twenty females). And in some species, aggression (so likelyhood of causing a bite report) may differ between the sexes. And average dose delivered in a bite may also vary between sexes.

Another possibility, though I have no evidence of this but think it could well be possible, is that venom composition changes over the course of a bite. It may be that venom A which is used in defence and initial stunning of prey is always there and ready to come out, but venom B which contains all the enzymes for breaking down flesh only come out after a few seconds, or in response to the certainty of food, or the centipede may even have some control over it. This could certainly be the case if the enzymes are expensive to produce.

That last point is all speculation, though I would not be surprised to find out that things are far more sophisticated and complex than they seem. These creature have kept roughly the same body shape for 100's of millions of years, yet are still constantly evolving and refining their behaviour and anatomy in minute ways.

Are bites from scolopendra hardwickei extremely painful?

 

[Vanisher]

First of all you need to clarify what you mean by S.gigantea.

If you're talking about the giant Peruvian white leg everyone calls gigantea, then to my understanding there is absolutely no comparison: the white leg has very mild venom (from speaking to people who have been bitten multiple times) whereas many people bitten by S.dehaani report it as the most painful thing they've ever experienced.

If you're talking about the current only "true" gigantea, the black which is found in and around Trinidad and Venezula, the answer is we don't really know. The only "report" I know of is from a local tabloid newspaper which said a 4 year old girl died after getting bitten in the face by one. I believe the story is true seeing as they emphasised how rare it was based on comments from the hospital, however I don't trust the ID. You get S.subspinipes along much of the North coast of South America (and they grow large!) and that sounds far more likely to me.

Of the topic, but painlevel and venom strenght ate not always the same thing. I am not talking about centipede venom now, just wanted to point that out

 

[Vanisher]

It's difficult to answer. Dehaani has very potent venom, among the most potent of any Scolopendra, surpassed only by Spinosissima and Ethmostigmus Spinosus and a few others.

Dehaani has very strong venom, most Scolopendra from South American have comparatively weak venom. But because of their large size they can deliver much more venom than most Dehaani.

Any random Dehaani that hypothetically bites you will deliver more pain than a Gigantea that injects an identical amount of venom. But a full venom dump from a Gigantea may very well be as painful as a Dehaani simply because the more venom is injected, the more painful it will be.

To put it simply though, Dehaani venom is far more potent than Gigantea venom.

- Shockwave

Hello, i am rather noob when it comes to centipedes, but are there any NW centipede with strong venom?

 

[BobBarley]

Hello, i am rather noob when it comes to centipedes, but are there any NW centipede with strong venom?

In general, (compared to OW sp.), no

However, there are introduced populations of Scolopendra subspinipes to the Americas.

 

[Scoly]

Hello, i am rather noob when it comes to centipedes, but are there any NW centipede with strong venom?

It depends... It's easy to get sucked up into thinking that because the bites from Asian centipedes are said to be so bad, that bites from other centipedes are "mild", but that's flawed/dangerous thinking.

People have reported very painful experiences from being bitten by S. heros, S. alternans, even S. polymorpha. Just this week someone posted a bite report on the Scolopendra Legion Facebook group from an African Ethmostigmus trigonopodus (which people believe to be a mild venom species) as follows "For the pain, on a scale of 10, I would give it a 7. Fingertips to below shoulder is hurting, chest lil burning sensation and lips swollen too."

And then there's NYAN's tale here: http://arachnoboards.com/threads/south-american-giants-a-word-of-caution-about-their-venom.319020/
which compares the bite from a SA giant as being on par with a S.hainanum.

My advice would be not to expect mild bites from any Scolopendrid

 

[Scoly]

Are bites from scolopendra hardwickei extremely painful?

They are said to be really bad yes. Children got to hospital from the pain. Interestingly the male and female have different venom composition.

 

[Vanisher]

It depends... It's easy to get sucked up into thinking that because the bites from Asian centipedes are said to be so bad, that bites from other centipedes are "mild", but that's flawed/dangerous thinking.

People have reported very painful experiences from being bitten by S. heros, S. alternans, even S. polymorpha. Just this week someone posted a bite report on the Scolopendra Legion Facebook group from an African Ethmostigmus trigonopodus (which people believe to be a mild venom species) as follows "For the pain, on a scale of 10, I would give it a 7. Fingertips to below shoulder is hurting, chest lil burning sensation and lips swollen too."

And then there's NYAN's tale here: http://arachnoboards.com/threads/south-american-giants-a-word-of-caution-about-their-venom.319020/
which compares the bite from a SA giant as being on par with a S.hainanum.

My advice would be not to expect mild bites from any Scolopendrid

Aha! What is that sp robusta orginates from?

 

[patrick nimbs]

Aha! What is that sp robusta orginates from?

It depends... It's easy to get sucked up into thinking that because the bites from Asian centipedes are said to be so bad, that bites from other centipedes are "mild", but that's flawed/dangerous thinking.

People have reported very painful experiences from being bitten by S. heros, S. alternans, even S. polymorpha. Just this week someone posted a bite report on the Scolopendra Legion Facebook group from an African Ethmostigmus trigonopodus (which people believe to be a mild venom species) as follows "For the pain, on a scale of 10, I would give it a 7. Fingertips to below shoulder is hurting, chest lil burning sensation and lips swollen too."

And then there's NYAN's tale here: http://arachnoboards.com/threads/south-american-giants-a-word-of-caution-about-their-venom.319020/
which compares the bite from a SA giant as being on par with a S.hainanum.

My advice would be not to expect mild bites from any Scolopendrid

Any centipede of the order scolopendromorpha (scolopendrids) can bite deeply into the skin and cause pain that can feel as though the bite is being burned alive (in other words the pain can get to an intensity that it just Sears like nobody’s business!!!). And on top of that, scolopendrids particularly large specimens from geniuses such as ethmostigmus, scolopendra can kill kids and all scolopendrids of any kind are dangerous and have sent people to the hospital. When my ethmostigmus rubripes bit me, I had to go to the base hospital for medical treatment because compresses and ice packs only intensified the pain and I was beginning to get the health problems starting with muscle breakdown then the chills and everything else.

 

[NYAN]

Aha! What is that sp robusta orginates from?

Ecuador according to the exporter.

 

[patrick nimbs]

Ecuador according to the exporter.

Can you find robusta spp in the West Indies?

 

[NYAN]

Can you find robusta spp in the West Indies?

Robusta is in Central America

 

[Scoly]

And on top of that, scolopendrids particularly large specimens from geniuses such as ethmostigmus, scolopendra can kill kids and all scolopendrids of any kind are dangerous and have sent people to the hospital.

There are no reported deaths attributed to any Ethmostigmus. The number of deaths attributed to Scolopendra bites is 2 as far as I know, both children bitten on the head. Scolopendromorpha are therefore not considered deadly as a group of animals, and the only prescribed treatment is pain management.

Can you find robusta spp in the West Indies?

Scolopendra robusta is defined from a single specimen reportedly found in "Mexico, Nuevo León, Monterey" and has never been seen since. The "robusta" which is sold in the hobby hails from Peru, possibly Equador, so definitely not in the West Indies, and it is likely a S.galapagoensis colour form. I have one in the freezer so should really take it out and examine it.

The main Scolopendra species you will find in the West Indies islands, as far as I know, are S. alternans and S. gigantea (plus the introduce species S. supspinipes and S. morsitans).

 

[Bob Lee]

Asian pedes tend to be more venomous, and dehaani is well known for being very very painful.

I wouldn't want to be bitten by either though, giant centipede bites are not fun.