WC T's - Your thoughts?

[Katiekooleyes]

Howdy doody. Was doing a spot of window shopping on a couple of sites for T's, and i came across a WC Aphonopelma chalcodes. Personally, I'm not a fan of WC (I know all T's were WC'ed at some point). but i began to think, what are other peoples views on this?

 

[Chris LXXIX]

I'm not completely against. Depends. After all, basically every Asian (and not) 'pede available in the trade is WC, yet almost no one say nothing about this.

While technically, with WC specimens, a more risk of ending with a specimen with 'parasites' or for that matter a specimen that had a previous chemical/whatever exposure etc may exist, still the issue is more rare than sometimes people make it out to be, in general.

Overall I'm a 'CB' man when it comes for T's, that's the future... but I'm not completely against a WC specimen only for that.

What bother me a bit (and this is why I've said 'depends', prior) is that here we are talking about Europe (since forever, the market of T's) and the spider is a A.chalcodes, definitely not a new or sorta new discovered species, nor an impossible to breed one.

Still I have noticed that, often, in the European trade, when it comes to said genus, the mentality is to prefer to 'lazy rely' on import-WC instead of the CB breeding

 

[l4nsky]

Howdy doody. Was doing a spot of window shopping on a couple of sites for T's, and i came across a WC Aphonopelma chalcodes. Personally, I'm not a fan of WC (I know all T's were WC'ed at some point). but i began to think, what are other peoples views on this?

Oh this can turn ugly...
Great for advanced breeders to establish captive bred lineages in the hobby to relieve the collecting pressure of those still in the wild.

Horrible otherwise, not really a fan of WC if they are just for the collector who has no intention of expanding the population and just props up the desire to own one and decimate the wild population.

Feel free to crucify me now.

Thanks,
--Matt

 

[Ungoliant]

Howdy doody. Was doing a spot of window shopping on a couple of sites for T's, and i came across a WC Aphonopelma chalcodes. Personally, I'm not a fan of WC (I know all T's were WC'ed at some point). but i began to think, what are other peoples views on this?

I prefer to buy captive-bred rather than wild-caught, as over-collection of animals contributes to their decline in the wild. Captive-bred spiders also seem to be less likely to come with parasites. (I don't look at it from a quality of life perspective, because a captive tarantula has a very easy life compared to a wild one.)

That being said, all of our pets are ultimately descended from wild-caught spiders. That's the only way new species enter the hobby, and it's the only way existing captive-bred stocks get an infusion of fresh genetic material.

 

[myrmecophile]

My big concern with CB is the hybrid issue. If I can be sure the critter is pure I am fine with it other wise WC for me.

 

[Rob1985]

I mean, if they're pretty cheap and not from a country where tjhey are considered endangered, it's kinda of whatever for me. I've had several WC over the years, including an A. hentzi female I caught myself many many years ago while out in western Texas.

 

[Minty]

I aim to buy CB and seeing a tarantula is WC has stopped me from buying it in the past. However, other than endangered species, I feel that WC species help keep the gene pool diverse, over time, so there is a small place for them in the hobby, assuming it doesn’t decimate the wild population.

I think most keepers with any sort of morals, would aim to buy CB over WC, when possible.

 

[RezonantVoid]

Often times I find out after I buy a T it's WC by the presence of mites. I'm often disappointed to see them like that. I would 100% choose CB over WC but unfortunately it's hard to tell unless you carefully inspect the T before hand

 

[The Grym Reaper]

While I wouldn't actively seek them out, I wouldn't turn down a healthy T down just for being WC. I don't really have a problem with it if it's not an endangered species.

You'd be hard pressed to find CB A. chalcodes adults in the UK anyway.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

My big concern with CB is the hybrid issue. If I can be sure the critter is pure I am fine with it other wise WC for me.

I understand but I think that this concern is a bit exaggerated. I mean, yes, happened (and unfortunately will continue, probably) but the vast majority of the breeders aren't all 'Frankenstein/s'

 

[MissouriArachnophile]

Illegal operations regarding tarantulas is probably not as bad as other species, like parrots . Profit is what fuels the unprofessional capture of wild animals. There's proper channels for bringing newer tarantulas into the hobby. Now if someone was collecting specimens from there own region for their collection, I'm alright with that.
Reminds me of people who pay to kill endangered animals, because the people who provide it say it is better for the population. Hot topic issue I probably should of stayed out of.

 

[Dennis Nedry]

If they aren’t threatened by the collection it shouldn’t be much of a problem, they were all wild caught at one stage

 

[SonsofArachne]

I avoid WC and try to buy only CB, but the T's you buy from dealers may come as WC imports without you (or even the dealer) knowing it. After all you can only take people at their word in many cases. And as far as new species coming into the hobby goes, the only way that can happen is wild collecting, although I would prefer to see the first specimens go to established breeders rather than the general public.

 

[Stormsky]

I think there’s no problem if it’s done sustainably. It establishes a population in the hobby for new species and refreshes the bloodline of existing species. As long as the wild population can easily recover, there’s lots of benefits to the hobby from a batch of wild caught specimens on occasion.
Of course in a perfect world, the best course of action would be to catch a few, breed them, then release them again with a percentage of the slings and use the remaining captive bred slings to spread through the hobby. But there’s some who would rather “cut out the middle man” and just sell what they can catch.

 

[Arachnophoric]

Although I don't have anything against WC Ts in particular, it'd depend on the circumstances for me. It wouldn't sit right with me to purchase a WC T from an individual if they were just going out and collecting wild Ts for the sole purpose of turning around and selling them for profit, especially if it was a species that could be readily bred in the hobby. That's just my personal feelings on it, though, and I can understand the benefits of reintroducing wild blood into our captive specimens to diversify the genetic pool, as well as WC specimens being how we get new species into the hobby.

 

[basin79]

I don't have a problem with an actual wild caught tarantula. And I'm sure if a tarantula could pick it'd choose captivity too.

The obvious problem comes from the ethics. Are they endangered? Do the collecters cause a lot of damage getting them? Does their removal have any lasting effects on the ecosystem? Do most not make the journey so are collected in their 1000's to ensure a few hundred actually make it?

 

[SteveIDDQD]

Depends on what it is for me, but I'll always prefer CB where possible, and in some cases rule out WC altogether.

I think with A.chalcodes being popular for beginners, cheap and very slow growing they are exported too much. I feel when animals take 5+ years to mature, it's pretty irresponsible to take them from the wild in such big numbers. But then again I'm sure that particular spider (after it's spent a few weeks or more in a tiny cup while being exported) has a much easier and safer life than it would in the wild. I guess the right answer is quite complicated and down to each buyer to decide.

I'm on the fence with getting a jumping spider right now, I would like one from the spider shop but they are WC. Would buy CB no problem.

 

[notanarachnophobe]

WC's have quite a few risk factors that I'm aware of.

 

[viper69]

If we don't have fresh genes from WC's at some point our CB Ts will have 25 legs or none. But obtaining must be done responsibly, and most of the time it is not.

For example, I. mira, was illegally taken from its native country. It's "firmly" established in the hobby.

 

[CJJon]

If we don't have fresh genes from WC's at some point our CB Ts will have 25 legs or none. But obtaining must be done responsibly, and most of the time it is not.

Is familial cross-breeding of siblings really a concern? It isn't for fish and reptiles. Guppies can be inbred to 180 generations before problems. I also thought I read someplace that all of the Psalmopoeus pulcher available in the hobby came from one egg sack produced by one WC female.