Want to buy

[LaRiz]

You even seem to accuse John of coloring up his photo as well.Todd

Without getting in the middle of this (or trying not to), I did not interpret Martin's explanation of photographing freshly molted spiders and how they may turn out with bluish sheens, as modifying my pictures. I think that's a well known phenomenon, especially with dark black species. White balance does have something to do with it, but since I'm not a photographer and just a point and shoot type of person, I still have to figure that one out.
When a couple of people remarked that the specimen pictured is blue, I'll tell you...I don't see any blue. The actual animal is different than what is shown in the pic.
Here are some pics of the specimen in question, in different lighting situations.
First pic was taken with flash. Second pic=no flash, unfiltered and irritatingly bright, sunlight. Third pic=filtered sunlight, no flash. Now, could a judgement be made on this species regarding the carapace shape and size of the "bloom"?
john

 

[Lopez]

Just remembered I can make some positive contribution (hopefully!) to this thread.

Xenesthis sp."blau" sub-adult (4") female - premoult condition.
(Specimen : Ray Gabriel)

 

[xenesthis]

Facts

1) Ferry & Dirk sold them to a "big dealer" in Germany. Yep, Martin that's correct the first time you've told the truth. That's how I got them. Now, you going to lie and distort that too?

2) I think I've said it enough and you just keep trying you best to distort the truth. Ferry & Dirk sold them as Xenesthis sp. "blau". I got photos that they took and bought them from a trusted dealer that bought them directly from them IN Germany. That's the facts DO NOT LIE ANYMORE ABOUT THAT!

3) You say you have no vested interest, but ah, you want to show prices and everything else. Why? What are you trying to do? Hmm.....I'd say you are up to no good. As for the dirty work, you have been trying your best to make me out to someone I'm not. Why? I DO NOT APPRECIATE YOUR SLANDER AND ATTEMPTS TO UNDERCUT MY ESTABLISHED 23 YEAR PLUS REPUTATION IN THIS HOBBY. I don't rip people off - period. Also, a P. regalis spiderling that costs $25 of course over 2- 3 years will change prices for an adult to $125-$250. Showing prices for fresh-born spiderlings is another attempt for you to discredit me. Also, you fail to make people understand import costs too. So, don't be fooled by Martin's attempts here to discredit me with his crap. Hmm... and you have no vested interest and no agenda, huh? It sure doesn't seem so. If you justed wanted to question the ID. Fine, but when I say what I have about their original purchase, that's it. That's the truth, but your insistence to bring up everything else shows what you are really trying to do.

Notice all the negativity and flame wars going down on this site recently. Remember what happened to petbugs.com when they started to lose visitors? We don't need this crap on this site. It's supposed to be about arachnids remember. Not people. I implore you to email the webmaster and stop these type of threads for starting, let alone letting somebody like Martin continue his crap.

Todd

 

[Deliverme314]

It's supposed to be about arachnids remember. Not people. I implore you to email the webmaster and stop these type of threads for starting, let alone letting somebody like Martin continue his crap.

Todd

I could not agree with this anymore. I am really sorry to butt in here again. But this is something that you, martin, should have taken off line with Todd personaly if you were so concerned. It is not your place to "warn" the public about Todd. If you have made a purchase that you are dissatisfied with that has its place in the dealer review. Otherwise I see this as nothing more than an attempt to discredit a dealer who has been notorious as reputable.

And stop inserting all those little winky faces... you treat this as a joke... a friendly convo when really what you are doing is slandering.

 

[Martin H.]

John,

thanks for posting further photos. Now I am for elefenninety-percent =;-) sure, that the specimen that you have is what I have always called Xenesthis sp. "weiß". Your photo 811XspA.jpg looks VERY similar to the X. sp. "weiß" specimens of similar size I know (e.g. >>this one<<)
And also compared with these 'carapace' close ups: >>click here<<

... She molted two days ago, and is about 4" now.

For those who want to compare with a specimen of similar size, in this thread Ray G. posted a photo of a juvenile female of X. sp. "blau" with 4" leg dia: >>click here<<

all the best,
Martin

PS.:

IF and that is a BIG "if" these turn out to NOT be the Xenesthis sp. "blau", then it is Ferry & Dirk you sold them incorrectly out of Germany.

Of course, it's always the fault of the others!


----------------------
"Die Beleidigungen sind die Argumente jener, die über keine Argumente verfügen." (Jean-Jacques Rousseau)

 

[Andrew vV]

I could not agree with this anymore. I am really sorry to butt in here again. But this is something that you, martin, should have taken off line with Todd personaly if you were so concerned. It is not your place to "warn" the public about Todd. If you have made a purchase that you are dissatisfied with that has its place in the dealer review. Otherwise I see this as nothing more than an attempt to discredit a dealer who has been notorious as reputable.

And stop inserting all those little winky faces... you treat this as a joke... a friendly convo when really what you are doing is slandering.

Well, to be quite honest, I think it is Martin's place to bring this to public attention. If a person is selling a species of spider that is OBVIOUSLY misidentified(Intentional or not) I think potential buyers have the right to know this. I dont believe Martin in any way was *intentionally* trying to hurt Todd's business.....but the longer this goes on, Im sure there will be some impact on it anyways. Especially when it looks to me that Martin has been right all along.

 

[xenesthis]

"Are you not yet entertained ?! "

Andrew and all,

Do you understand how many times reptile importers misidentify species and the name changes hands with every dealer that buys them? That happens all the time in our hobby/trade.

IF this thread and Martin's efforts were simply to question the ID, that would be o'kay, but notice his threats about showing prices and wanting to name names. What's that all about? He has a score to settle with me about a stupid broken agreement on his part over a photo and he is being the "hitman" for a competitor of mine out to slander and discredit me as much as he can. The competitor's name stays out of the public eye and Martin takes the heat with nothing to lose. Nice strategy, but I've know all about it for the last six months or so. He trips up in these threads by showing us what he is really trying to do.

Everybody wants to get their panties wet and twisted over the Xenesthis ID problem, well wait, the genus will be revised and what we have been calling X. immanis is not immanis. It's the nature of our hobby as the taxonomy gets updated and revised, we will be constantly changing out tank labels. Look at the crap that is happening with "Lasidora" cristata = Nhandu chromatus.

Re-read Martin's posts and pick up on what he is really trying to do. It very obvious.

Ferry & Dirk sold these to a big dealer in Germany as "Xenesthis sp. blau". They were sold to me as that and I was shown pics from Ferry & Dirk that showed the light blue-femured Xenesthis sp. That's the facts.

Now, IF these turn out to be the other Xenesthis, and based on the above facts, HOW IS THAT MY FAULT? Martin is trying to convince everybody that I did something sinister and bad. That goes against everything that I do in this hobby and trade. If I need to, I'll swamp this thread with people that know me and know that is not what I'm about, then again, is that what we want from this site? It's supposed to be about arachnids, but I see its being allowed to go like petbugs.com and it's more about people, gossip, junk, the jerry springer shows of humankind, where people tune into something like the Gladiator movie. Yes, this movie line fits this thread perfectly, "Are you not yet entertained?!"

Todd

 

[Vys]

Where did Martin threaten to show any prices; I must be blind?
You have, through this thread, admitted indirectly that the spiderlings you have, nad have pictures of, might be X. sp. 'weiss', so Martin got his point through, at least halfway?

If the moderators were as active as you wished them to be, than surely you would be the one to get a reprimand, since it seems to me that while Martin has teased and sung taunting German songs in this thread, you have stood for the slander?

This won't turn into petbugs btw..first of all, we don't have Paul Day. Second of all, why vent your anger on the mods?

 

[Waxen]

Hi all,

I hate to get in on this thread since I am not all that informed about any species of Xenethis but I thought i'd throw in my 0.02 cents. I have read through the posts and it seems to me that regardless of whether Martin is trying to have a good natured conversation or not that this thread could be damaging to Todd's business. If I was Todd my tendency would be to be defensive just as he seems to be in some of his posts.

I assume the possibility is out there that some slings were sold as the wrong scientific name or maybe they were sold correctly. The point of the matter is that Todd has over 20 years in this business and scores of good reviews as a dealer. I personally have never dealt with Todd but his reputation precedes him. In my eyes, that is enough to take him at his word. All this being said, I feel in the future i'll refrain from reading this thread as it just goes back and forth endlessly.

Todd, for what it is worth, you seem to be a good guy. And to Martin, you also seem to be well informed about T's as you have numerous posts that are great info for a newbie such as myself to the hobby. I think everybody could agree that any species of Xenethis are rare in the trade and amazingly beautiful and maybe it should be left at that.

-Jason

 

[xenesthis]

"IF"

Vys,

Did you mis-read the word "IF"? I have told the same facts over now several times. Re-read the facts. Purchased as Xenesthis sp. "blau" from Ferry & Dirk in Germany and shown photos from them of a light blue-femured Xenesthis sp. sold as Xenesthis sp. "blau". The word "IF" was used to pacify Martin's lies and distortions for the argument that they are not what they were sold to me as. Bill Clinton had a funny way of understanding the word "IF". Do you subscribe to that as well?

Todd

 

[xenesthis]

Vys - re-read

Vys,

Yes, Vys, you must be blind when you said, "Where did Martin threaten to show any prices; I must be blind?".

RE-READ Martin's post on page 3 of this thread: "If you wish I can post the prices for which they have sold both species, slings, juveniles and subadults! "

I have never seen such distortions of the facts EVER. Look at what Martin has posted. It isn't that innocent and his interest is not just a simple clarification of the Xenesthis genus identification of current species in the trade. He has went way, way, way beyond that as his goal.

This thread is about to split into a personal war with supporters of myself and Martin. Again, this site is supposed to be about arachnids not people. Moderation? What moderation?

Todd

 

[Andrew vV]

Andrew and all,

Do you understand how many times reptile importers misidentify species and the name changes hands with every dealer that buys them? That happens all the time in our hobby/trade.

Yup, probably a lot more common with WC imports, but I agree.

Everybody wants to get their panties wet and twisted over the Xenesthis ID problem, well wait, the genus will be revised and what we have been calling X. immanis is not immanis.

Maybe synonymous with X. intermedia, and/or X. sp. "white", but X. sp "blue" seems to be pretty distinctive.

Now, IF these turn out to be the other Xenesthis, and based on the above facts, HOW IS THAT MY FAULT? Martin is trying to convince everybody that I did something sinister and bad. That goes against everything that I do in this hobby and trade. If I need to, I'll swamp this thread with people that know me and know that is not what I'm about, then again, is that what we want from this site? It's supposed to be about arachnids, but I see its being allowed to go like petbugs.com and it's more about people, gossip, junk, the jerry springer shows of humankind, where people tune into something like the Gladiator movie. Yes, this movie line fits this thread perfectly, "Are you not yet entertained?!"

I dont necessarily think its your fault at all. It could have happened to anyone!
However, I think had you conceded to the fact that these spiders *may* be X. sp. "white" at the very beginning(just to cover your A@#) we would not be having this discussion now. Im sure you were angry with him though over the whole photo use thing though, right?!
This is still a very rare species of an equally rare genus, and I think everybody who bought them is satisfied with their purchase no matter what species they are. I'd say for North American standards they were pretty much on par price wise considering that of X. immanis, so its not like anyone should feel ripped off.

 

[Vys]

Vys,

Did you mis-read the word "IF"? I have told the same facts over now several times. Re-read the facts. Purchased as Xenesthis sp. "blau" from Ferry & Dirk in Germany and shown photos from them of a light blue-femured Xenesthis sp. sold as Xenesthis sp. "blau". The word "IF" was used to pacify Martin's lies and distortions for the argument that they are not what they were sold to me as. Bill Clinton had a funny way of understanding the word "IF". Do you subscribe to that as well?

Todd

It's just that when you say you have a new rare species, and hype it, and then put out photos that don't entirely look like that species, is it strange people take an interest?
Especially since specimens are going to cost quite a lot? Sure, people would be happy with any Xenesthis they got, I think but that's not the point.

About price..yes, I did miss that.
.

 

[MizM]

Martin has the right to question a species identification.

Todd has the right to defend himself.

If this argument were to be censored, it would be a censure to freedom of speech.

Martin and Todd BOTH have reputations to live up to. That is why this is going on in a PUBLIC forum. Although it SHOULD have been kept private, once something is said in public, the other HAS to respond in public.

I agree that this thread has gone on WAY to long, but the argument will be ended soon enough. When the gorgeous little creatures in question mature, it will be over. Only they can clear things up.

 

[Mister Internet]

Ok people... since everyone loves a soap opera and can't control their urge to participate, I will try to help you out.

The ONLY people that should be responding to this line of discussion are Todd, Martin, anyone that purchased slings, or anyone who owns or works with the species in question. Everybody's brother jumping into the thread will result in 475 "here's my two cents" posts that are nothing more than useless reiterations of what is plainly obvious if people take the time to read through the thread. It adds a tons of noise and confusion to what is self-evidently an important line of discussion. That being said, any further NON-CONTRIBUTING posts will be deleted, and we reserve the right to go back and "clean up" this thread to remove the trivial chatter.

Thanks for helping us out...

 

[Nich]

Nobody said Todd didn't have a right to defend his "character" or business but considering he has an interest(money) his statements also lack impartial credibility as it pertains to the specific subject at hand, IMO. I don't agree his rights extend to TELLING a consumer not to listen to another source(who has no vested monetary interest) when the customer is deciding to make an expensive purchase or not. I'd like to see or hear some actual proof to substantiate his claims instead of making paranoid accusations that other people and businesses are trying to sabotage him all the time.

You sound very intellectual (scough) but hey, what does your post have anything to do with the guys original questrion......You didnt hel that guy too much but did make yourself seem like someone who is bored and needs attention or a good argument.... ;P I buy critters form Todd, never had a milabled species and always got more than i paid for, the "powder Blue" is stunning, ive seen one in person. Well worth the money for those who are financially sound. If you are as intel as your trying to come off ad then i think you would have made a point that will lead somewhere....lol. My point being, ive seen a powder blue and they are very nice (the most colorfull of many) and big, a rare combo. Todd does have the right to defend against defamation....have you ever bought anything from todd...? Just my two pennies.....

 

[Arachnoboards]

This thread will be addressed when I have the opportunity. I'm very busy with real world stuff right now.

I am quite PISSED...

Scott