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To Euthanize or Not To Euthanize

Discussion in 'Tarantula Questions & Discussions' started by MizM, May 12, 2003.

  1. Mendnwngs

    Mendnwngs Arachnosquire Old Timer

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    Dust off is not usually c02. Its a flourocarbon.

    Reason being is: c02 stays liquid at about 1800psi. Much, much too high pressure for a flimsy thin metal can.

    As far as the interaction of flourocarbons inducing coma / cardio pulmonary failure, i hazard a guess that the effect is similar to c02 in its ability to euthenize with little / no pain.

    But, again Im just guessing..

    -jason
     
  2. MizM

    MizM Arachnoprincess Old Timer

    My "Duster-In-A-Can" is 100% Tertafluorethane. It says to avoid prolonged breathing of vapors, so it MUST be harmful!!!

    Maybe I'll just find a bag 'o "natural relaxant", get her really happy, and THEN put in the gas. (O.K., we don't need to debate on that 'cuz it was a joke!!)

    skadiwolf... your support is so much appreciated. I'm going to go home tonight and put her GENTLY out of her misery and know I did the right thing, cuz. she won't be suffering anymore. She'll be in the "great burrow in the sky" frolicking with all our other little deceased pets. (Juvenile visual... but it sure helps.)
     
  3. LAking

    LAking Arachnosquire Old Timer

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    Good to know. Now what exactly is flouracarbon. All this chemisty stuff confuses me :?
     
  4. Mendnwngs

    Mendnwngs Arachnosquire Old Timer

    Fluorocarbons are commonly used as propellants in aerosol spray cans. They boil at a reasonably cold temperature thereby keeping pressures up in a confined space (Like an aerosol can)

    Most are damaging to the environment (Chloroflurocarbons or CFCs) Others arent as bad (HFCs or Hydroflurocarbons) I believe Tetrafluoroethane is an HFC.

    The danger in breathing these gasses is Oxygen displacement. The higher the concentration of HFCs /CFCs the lower the concentration of O2. I believe CFCs and HFCs are not toxic in and of themselves, But do damage by preventing oxygen from entering your bloodstream.

    Again, Im just kind of guessing tho..

    -Jason

    (please excuse my spelling, Im not too sure on the proper chemical names)
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2003
  5. genious_gr

    genious_gr Arachnoangel Old Timer

    Noone suggesting not to kill the T'??

    I remember an old thread, Godzillla2000 (I think) was sure a T' was dying and got everyones wishes etc. then..... it molted!!!!

    We cant possibly know the animal is suffering! Maybe I say MAYBE it would be better for it to die the netural way and not with any of the above suggested (Really, how can you kill a T' or a rat or anything bigger than a fly by hitting it?)

    Have you tried that ICU thing?

    I'd also like to point down the importance to stop buying WC animals except if they are REALLY rare in the hobby. Most have problems that cause a lot of pain to the one that buys them.

    Finally, I'd suggest giving the T' to one of those guys that eat Tarantulas, raw, and watch as the bacterias or watever the T' has pass in hie/her blood ;P
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2003
  6. MizM

    MizM Arachnoprincess Old Timer

    She's been in ICU for three days. I remember my h. lividium, whio "died" for about 6 hours prior to a molt.

    Oh shoot, I thought I was going to do the right thing, and now you have given me doubts.
    IS IT UP TO ME TO PLAY GOD?????:? :confused: :?
     
  7. genious_gr

    genious_gr Arachnoangel Old Timer

    Sorry, I couldnt help it.

    When its about animals like dogs, where so see the suffering, it is the right thing to euthanize it. But I'm not sure at all that T' behavior can be accurately interpreted (spellin') until the day vets will know what a Tarantula is.
     
  8. MizM

    MizM Arachnoprincess Old Timer

    Well, during an inspection for movement, she accidently fell in her water dish, book lungs down. She immediately relaxed. I think if she had control over her body, she would have fought like h-e-double toothpicks! Right?!?
     
  9. Mendnwngs

    Mendnwngs Arachnosquire Old Timer

    No, Nor is anyone suggesting you do such. All you can do, Is act on what you know..

    Second guessing is human nature, If you didn't feel compassion for your pet, Then all this would be easy.

    Either way, You will take a gamble. If you do put the T down, There will always be doubts. If you do not, ant the T clings on for another couple days, weeks, or longer before finally letting go, You will also feel bad.

    its really a no-win situation. i dont envy your position, However I have faith that any decision made is with the Ts best interest in mind.

    -Jason
     
  10. conipto

    conipto ArachnoPrincess Old Timer

    RE: freezing vs. smashing -

    I've had an A. moderatum get frozen during shipment, and warm back up to life. Chris, another user on this board had an entire shipment freeze, and a few survived after thawing. A few of us are starting to wonder at the effectiveness and humaness of the freezing death. Get a 4x4 or nail two 2x4's together, double bag your T in paper bags, and just drop the 4x4 on end from about 3 feet high onto the bag. It will have enough force to set off half a box of rimfire ammunition (trust me..), so I'm sure it will make an instant, painless death for a tarantula of just about any size. Alternatively, there's the garbage disposal. Just use plenty of water.

    Bill
     
  11. Mendnwngs

    Mendnwngs Arachnosquire Old Timer

    oh, and as an afterthought, I will say for what its worth. You have probably done more, and tried more things to improve your Ts condition than most vets are capable of knowing about.

    Your decision is not based on a lack of information on your part. Of that im sure.

    -Jason
     
  12. MizM

    MizM Arachnoprincess Old Timer

    Well, I'll see how she is tonight. If she's worse, I'll put her out of her mistery. If she's better, I'll keep on tryin'. I've got a date with my hubby to drive up the street at sunset for some Aphonopelma eutylenum hunting... it's that time of year... and maybe I'll catch a WHOLE BUNCH of new kids and feel better. Plus, I'm waiting for my 4"-5" G. pulchura from Swifty and I KNOW she'll lift my spirits. I just won't think about the Rio Grande I just lost!!!!!
     
  13. genious_gr

    genious_gr Arachnoangel Old Timer

    Maybe the liquid they have in their bodies doesnt react like water does (I gues it has hight percentages of water but I said MAYBE upfront) to low temp. and so (Hold it, you know that when our blood freezes, it expands and our bloodlines get ruined) it might not be always fattal for a T' to stay in low temperatures.
    Sorry if what I say doesnt make any sense....(Try speakin about that in Greek!!)
     
  14. skadiwolf

    skadiwolf Arachnolord Old Timer

    perhaps you should just try reading up as much as you can (i assume you have lots of T books) and also on the internet. see links about sickness in Ts, reviving Ts, etc.

    maybe there's a chance to save her. i mentioned that before...but, perhaps you really should give it more serious thought. who knows, it might be something easy to fix. then again, you never know either way.

    what the hell though, why not give it a shot? :)
     
  15. D-Man

    D-Man Arachnochicano

    either or

    Terri-

    Either go balls out (figuritively, of course) and try to save her with your hand feeding skills or, if things look poor and you feel she suffering, place her in a bag of some sort and put a hammer to her. If you can't do it, have your hubby. Also, you can just let her die naturally!

    Good luck, I wish you the best!

    Dario
     
  16. Mike G.

    Mike G. Arachnopeon

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    Sorry if this is a repeat of what anyone else has said (I'm too lazy to read all the posts) but liquid nitrogen would be the best way to freezez it. The T would freeze instantly. Almost no suffering.

    Mike G.
     
  17. Craig

    Craig Arachnoknight Old Timer

    i do not think freezing or co2 or any of those methods are humane at all. i have never had to euthanize a trantula, but i've killed hundereds of mice, rats, and rabbits for the many snakes and other animals i've had. if you use co2 to kill the mouse or rat or what ever. vitals don't stop for at least 3 minutes. i've timed it. that means that the animal still has neurological functions going on past 3 minutes, this is similar to the theory that humans still have some activity in the brain even after blood supply is cut off.

    on the other hand if one were to give the animal in question the animal's bodily functions stop in seconds. sometimes the most humane thing is not always the most pleasing thing. i think people should do what is right for the animal not what is seemingly less gruesome for the person. i don't mean to offend anyone this is just my opinion.
    one more thing. why???? are people using dust off etc.. to kill mice etc...?????? wouldn't the animal eating the prey item absorb the toxins. the affeccts may be so subtle that they might now be noticed for a few months, but it seems like a ticking time bomb.
     
  18. skadiwolf

    skadiwolf Arachnolord Old Timer

    well craig, i agree that bashing or whatever is the most humane method. however, that's assuming you don't botch it, which i have.

    and let me say, i have never forgiven myself for giving that mouse so much pain before it died. it was a real trooper. amazingly so.

    eventually, it was mostly stunned and my snake killed it.
     
  19. MizM,

    Im sorry to hear about your pet. I can understand why you dont want to smash her. Its not a pleasant thought, and it would be really hard to do. I wouldnt want to remember my pet having been squashed. I had to freeze a tarantula once. It was tough, I was very upset. I know what youre going thru. I just lost my cat to cancer too. :(

    At any rate, I hope she gets better. If she doesnt, we're thinking of you.
     
  20. TheDon

    TheDon ArachnoDon Old Timer

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    I must say I have not enjoyed reading this thread is has made me quite upset. (And I know i didnt have to read it but i just had to.) Not because of all the talk of Killing the T but just about the fact that ur T may be suffering... I know how I would feel in this situation and it wouldnt be very good. Hope she pulls through if u havent Euthanized it already. Good Luck :(


    TheDon