The Tarantula Keeping Pyramid

Tenevanica

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I've been keeping invertebrates for a while now, but I haven't kept many T's. If you check my profile, I only keep two species at the time of writing. (Soon to be more... Rocky Mountain Reptile Expo, here I come!) You could say I am still a "beginner" tarantula hobbyist, though I am not a beginner in terms of my tarantula knowledge. I've decided to make what I am calling a "Tarantula Keeping Pyramid," which essentially breaks up Tarantula keeping into separate "tiers" so people of all experiences can see which new tarantula is right for them, and what their "next step" would be.

Each tier has several listed genera. Once you have gained experience by successfully keeping a few of the genera listed at your current tier, you are considered ready to move up and keep the T's at the next tier. Please note that not every genus will be listed here, and T's that are at the same level of difficulty as the listed genera can be considered "in that tier."

Tier 1: Brachypelma, Grammostola, Aphonopelma, Chromatopelma, Euthalus.
Tier 2: Avicularia, Psalmopoeus, Acanthoscurria, Hapalopus, Nhandu.
Tier 3: Chilobrachys, Pterinochilus, Ephebopus, Ceratogyrus.
Tier 4: Heteroscodra, Theraphosa, Poecilotheria.

This pyramid is nowhere near perfect, so if anyone has any suggestions as to how I should rearrange this, or has any suggestions in terms of a relatively well known genus that should be added to the listed thread, please tell me. This is mainly for my personal use, so I'm sure most people will disagree with me here.
Please add your experiences and personal ratings to this thread so we can improve the pyramid.
 
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EulersK

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As you said, many people will disagree, so I'm sure you don't mind input ;)

Overall, I certainly agree. However, I'd personally rank Chromatopelma and Euthalus higher on the list, specifically in tier 2. Chromatopelma due to their speed, and Euthalus due to the utter lack of information and abundance of misinformation on the genus. As for Heteroscodra, I'd rank them as a tier 4. I've only owned a couple H. maculata, but between their fragility, speed, and venom, I'd rank them up there (if not beyond) Poecilotheria.

But in all honesty, I wouldn't be opposed to linking newbies to this thread at all. I wouldn't starkly disagree with anything you've said, my only input would be nitpicking.

Out of my experience, here is where I would rank what I've owned:
Tier 1: Brachypelma, Grammostola, Aphonopelma, Nhandu
Tier 2: Avicularia, Psalmopoeus, Acanthoscurria, Hapolopus, Chromatopelma, Euthalus
Tier 3: Chilobrachys, Pterinochilus, Lasiodora, Ceratogyrus, Holothele, Theraphosa (omit T. blondi)
Tier 4: Heteroscodra, Poecilotheria
 
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Tenevanica

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As you said, many people will disagree, so I'm sure you don't mind input ;)

Overall, I certainly agree. However, I'd personally rank Chromatopelma and Euthalus higher on the list, specifically in tier 2. Chromatopelma due to their speed, and Euthalus due to the utter lack of information and abundance of misinformation on the genus. As for Heteroscodra, I'd rank them as a tier 4. I've only owned a couple H. maculata, but between their fragility, speed, and venom, I'd rank them up there (if not beyond) Poecilotheria.

But in all honesty, I wouldn't be opposed to linking newbies to this thread at all. I wouldn't starkly disagree with anything you've said, my only input would be nitpicking.

Out of my experience, here is where I would rank what I've owned:
Tier 1: Brachypelma, Grammostola, Aphonopelma, Nhandu
Tier 2: Avicularia, Psalmopoeus, Acanthoscurria, Hapolopus, Chromatopelma, Euthalus
Tier 3: Chilobrachys, Pterinochilus, Lasiodora, Ceratogyrus, Holothele, Theraphosa (omit T. blondi)
Tier 4: Heteroscodra, Poecilotheria
I don't disagree with you here at all. Some aspects of tarantula husbandry are very opinion based in terms of difficulty. I'll move Heteroscodra up because after reading more about the genus, I agree with your statement about speed, fragility, and venom. I'll leave the others where they are because I won't be able to edit this post after 24 hours, and I don't want to mix it up too much. I'll also add one of your third tear suggested genus' just to keep the "pyramid" shape I guess. Thanks for the input!
 
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EulersK

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I'm really hoping some more experienced keepers will add in to the tier 4 slot! I've only started keeping those myself this past year, so I have very little experience on the matter. I almost wanted to say "any sling worth more than $100"!
 

Tenevanica

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I'm really hoping some more experienced keepers will add in to the tier 4 slot! I've only started keeping those myself this past year, so I have very little experience on the matter. I almost wanted to say "any sling worth more than $100"!
So true! Any experienced person, please speak out. We need your advise and consideration!
 

Olan

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You might have to split up pterinochilus. OBT in tier 4, other Pterinochilus stays tier 3. Add in S. calceatum, in tier 4 or make a tier 5 for this species alone.
 

Sarkhan42

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Personally I'd put Lasiodora as tier 1 or 2. They're pretty hardy and simple to keep and tend not to be too mean, not to mention they're good eaters. Definitely not on remotely the same level as Theraphosa in my mind. Honestly you may want to consider the placement of Psalmopoeus as well, not because they're difficult to keep per say, but they can be quite fast and defensive on occasion. Move them up a tier maybe?

My overall suggestion would be to make more then just one pyramid, and make criteria pyramids. For example one that covers speed, or care requirements ect because as is while its a fantastic idea its just very difficult to break up.
 

Envoirment

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My overall suggestion would be to make more then just one pyramid, and make criteria pyramids. For example one that covers speed, or care requirements ect because as is while its a fantastic idea its just very difficult to break up.
That would be good. You could have a point-based system (tier 1= 1 point, tier 2 = 2 points and so on), then combine the points together of a genus' ranking in multiple pyramids (speed, venom potency, temperment, uriticating hair severity, environmental requirements etc) to get an overall ranking. Something like that would be very useful.
 

EulersK

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I actually think this is a really good idea... it's obviously not an exact science, but it is something that I would have found immensely useful when I first started. My second T was a P. irminia. He lived to maturity and even fathered a sac, but it was a bad idea that spawned from just a couple people saying how easy they were to care for.
 

Chris LXXIX

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When it comes to arboreals Psalmopoeus cambridgei are the best starter arboreals for me. They are hardy, good eaters, easy to care, they grow like weed... there's never a problem with those.

"Avics", on the other hand, require certain conditions that should always respected but that not everyone follow, leading to lots of "I lost my Avic" threads. Genus Avicularia shouldn't been suggested to beginners without the basic 'know how'.

Psalmopoeus cambridgei (not Psalmopoeus irminia, more on the high strung mode in general) on the other hand, yes, as first arboreal. If someone is scared by speed at the end, arboreals aren't his/her league. Besides, "Avics" are very speedy as well.

Chromatopelma cyaneopubescens is another beginner one. I have never saw a threat display from one of those in 25 years, unlike some 'Grammo' and 'Brachy'. They are only run & hide.

genus Nhandu IMO isn't so much different from genus Acanthoscurria (i prefer those last btw) so i will put those with "Genics" tough they are a joke when it comes to temperament if compared to a pissed off Phormictopus cancerides.
 

Tenevanica

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When it comes to arboreals Psalmopoeus cambridgei are the best starter arboreals for me. They are hardy, good eaters, easy to care, they grow like weed... there's never a problem with those.

"Avics", on the other hand, require certain conditions that should always respected but that not everyone follow, leading to lots of "I lost my Avic" threads. Genus Avicularia shouldn't been suggested to beginners without the basic 'know how'.

Psalmopoeus cambridgei (not Psalmopoeus irminia, more on the high strung mode in general) on the other hand, yes, as first arboreal. If someone is scared by speed at the end, arboreals aren't his/her league. Besides, "Avics" are very speedy as well.

Chromatopelma cyaneopubescens is another beginner one. I have never saw a threat display from one of those in 25 years, unlike some 'Grammo' and 'Brachy'. They are only run & hide.

genus Nhandu IMO isn't so much different from genus Acanthoscurria (i prefer those last btw) so i will put those with "Genics" tough they are a joke when it comes to temperament if compared to a pissed off Phormictopus cancerides.
If have to disagree with what you said about Avics. I think they are the perfect starter arboreal. I've been keeping an A. versicolor sling for a while now, and I haven't had a problem. (I'm new in terms of the actual husbandry ad tarantulas.) The thoughts on Avicularia seem to be mixed. They are either recommended to beginners or labeled for only the experts to keep.
 

Tenevanica

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That would be good. You could have a point-based system (tier 1= 1 point, tier 2 = 2 points and so on), then combine the points together of a genus' ranking in multiple pyramids (speed, venom potency, temperment, uriticating hair severity, environmental requirements etc) to get an overall ranking. Something like that would be very useful.
Like a power ranking for tarantulas? That doesn't sound half bad. Good idea!
 

EulersK

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Literally the only reason I put the likes of GBB in tier 2 was due to their speed and erratic movement. Their care is by far one of the easiest I've ever kept. I feel like newbies get a GBB as one of their first T's and just weren't ready for the speed. But as Envoirment said, multiple tiers would help.

I'll also join the "avics aren't for beginners" team. I live in an extremely dry climate, and my avic is proving to be more work than any other tarantula in terms of humidity.
 

Chris LXXIX

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If have to disagree with what you said about Avics. I think they are the perfect starter arboreal. I've been keeping an A. versicolor sling for a while now, and I haven't had a problem. (I'm new in terms of the actual husbandry ad tarantulas.) The thoughts on Avicularia seem to be mixed. They are either recommended to beginners or labeled for only the experts to keep.
In general (and i was talking/i'm talking in general) if you give 100 genus Avicularia T's (you name one) to 100 beginners and 100 Psalmopoeus cambridgei to other 100 beginners (issues involving all of a sudden death, that "SADS" thing, and other stuff) IMO troubles would occur on the "Avic" side.

The only reason why "Avics" were/are suggested to beginners is probably due to the temperament; bites from those are very rare, they aren't defensive (not mentioning now the single Theraphosidae temperament of course).

There's people who do not provide cross ventilation nor dry substrate = Dead "Avic".

Psalmopoeus cambridgei on the other hand, let's say, tolerate more some beginner mistake and they are, IMO, more hardy as Theraphosidae. I view "Avics" as delicate Theraphosidae, just like Lampropelma violaceopes (completely different care/T's of course).
 

Envoirment

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Like a power ranking for tarantulas? That doesn't sound half bad. Good idea!
Yes! Given the amount of experienced keepers on the board, I'm sure a good comprehensive list on at least the genus levels could be made. Although perhaps replace venom potency with bite severity - which'll take into account medically significant venom (such as the Poecilotheria genus), as well as large fangs which can do significant mechanical damage (Theraphosa). I think the tiers should be something like:

Bite severity (Tier 1:Aphonopelma, Tier 4: Lasiodora/Theraphosa, Tier 5: Poecilotheria*)
Speed (Tier 1: Aphonopelma, Tier 3: Chromatopelma, Tier 5: Poecilotheria)
Temperament (Tier 1: Docile , Tier 2: Defensive, Tier 3: Defensive/Skittish, Tier 4: Aggressive Tier 5: Aggressive/Skittish)
Hardiness/How difficult it is to look after (Tier 1: Chromatopelma, Tier 3: Avicularia, Tier 5:Megaphobema/Theraphosa)
Uritcating hairs severity (Tier 5: Theraphosa/Acanthoscurria)**

* Only genus I've seen reports of people going to hospital for.
** Doesn't apply to old world tarantulas, so could the score of new world ones. Perhaps have it as an optional category?

That's just a rough example and I haven't owned a bunch of those genera - just adding them in as examples based on what I've read.
 

Tenevanica

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Yes! Given the amount of experienced keepers on the board, I'm sure a good comprehensive list on at least the genus levels could be made. Although perhaps replace venom potency with bite severity - which'll take into account medically significant venom (such as the Poecilotheria genus), as well as large fangs which can do significant mechanical damage (Theraphosa). I think the tiers should be something like:

Bite severity (Tier 1:Aphonopelma, Tier 4: Lasiodora/Theraphosa, Tier 5: Poecilotheria*)
Speed (Tier 1: Aphonopelma, Tier 3: Chromatopelma, Tier 5: Poecilotheria)
Temperament (Tier 1: Docile , Tier 2: Defensive, Tier 3: Defensive/Skittish, Tier 4: Aggressive Tier 5: Aggressive/Skittish)
Hardiness/How difficult it is to look after (Tier 1: Chromatopelma, Tier 3: Avicularia, Tier 5:Megaphobema/Theraphosa)
Uritcating hairs severity (Tier 5: Theraphosa/Acanthoscurria)**

* Only genus I've seen reports of people going to hospital for.
** Doesn't apply to old world tarantulas, so could the score of new world ones. Perhaps have it as an optional category?

That's just a rough example and I haven't owned a bunch of those genera - just adding them in as examples based on what I've read.
I'd love to put that in a seperate thread. People post about their ratings of species they've kept, and a link to this thread is provided so they can compare it on the pyramid.

Here are some rankings for the two species I own:

Aphonopelma chalcodes
Bite severity: 1
Speed: 1
Temperament: 1
Hardiness: 1
Urticating hairs: 1
Overall Tier: 1

Avicularia versicolor
Bite severity: 1
Speed: 3
Temperament: 1
Hardiness: 3
Urticating hairs: 1
Overall Tier: 2
 

viper69

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Your T system or as many others call it a "ladder system", is a nice redundant idea. I think the internet is great for info, the problem is, how will people find your info easily? That's always the problem with internet info, lots of it out there, most of it, never read.

Regarding Avics. They are very simple to keep, but have a somewhat narrow range of husbandry tolerance compared to many other NW and OW species. I would put them as Tier 2. However you don't need to be an "expert" to keep them at all. One needs to pay attention to detail and do A LOT of research, research, research.


Regarding Urticating Setae-- What does the number represent? Each person's genetics is different, and thus each person's response is different to the setae. Rating the severity of them is EXTREMELY subjective.

How many people will you sample to determine what the rating should be for any of your parameters? For example, I've owned quite a few A versicolor, I wouldn't give them a temperament rating of 1, I'd give them a 2. Again subjective as the above.

Have fun w/this!
 

Bugmom

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I feel like something like this would get huge quickly considering all the different species in the hobby. There's the ones already mentioned, but also:
Megaphobema
Harpactira
Augacephalus
Omothymus
Cyclosternum
Haplocosmia
Lasiodora
Iridopelma
Pterinopelma
Heterothele
Lampropelma
Thrixopelma
 

EulersK

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I think we should start a thread asking for information presented exactly as Tenevanica did a couple posts back. Take the info from as many people as possible (or whoever is willing to report), average out the scores, and report from there. Not the most scientific process, but again, this is all subjective anyway.

We would need to stay away from species and only focus on genus, because that would get overwhelming.
 

EulersK

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I'm going to start putting together an Excel spreadsheet and start up a new thread tonight after I get home from work. I can even make graphs to represent individual genera to make it easier to read. That being said, here's what I have so far in terms of categories:
-Speed
-Venom potency
-Environment control
-Temperament (defensive vs. skittish will be involved here)
-Durability

Please throw in your ideas! The more tiers we have, the better the average will turn out to be. We don't want redundancies, of course - this is why I combined the tiers for defensiveness and skittishness (is that a word?). I also left out urticating setae due to viper's point. We're already being subjective with our opinions, we can't bring in genetic factors. Not to mention, I don't believe that the setae make any difference in how difficult the T is to care for.

I think each category should only have 4 tiers, lest this get too specific. Beginner, Intermediate, Experienced, and Advanced.
 
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