The "H" word - Can we get rid of it? (T care rant!)

[SteveIDDQD]

We all know that care sheets give bad info, it's not news that "Humidity" figures are thrown about a lot and mean nothing to us. But I've noticed a trend that stands out as very confusing for beginners, and just reinforces the confusion about "humidity", and it generally at this point comes from the people "in the know".

I've seen many people give advice, either in videos or forums, about care for tarantulas and both slate "Humidity" and then reinforce that it's required. For example (made up so you get the picture). -

"you don't need humidity for tarantulas, they just need some damp substrate and a water dish"

Great, this is accepted as correct advice. A few sentences later.

"You need cross ventilation for your tarantula so put holes in opposite sides of the enclosure, but don't put too many holes in the lid as you want to retain some HUMIDITY."

I've seen this many times, and I find it strange. It's sound advice, you don't want the damp substrate to dry out too fast, but why use the word humidity? Humidity refers to the amount of moisture in the air and isn't the right word to use IMO, especially when it's accepted and used in the world of exotic pet keeping to mean something that we don't want for our Ts (spraying).

Maybe we need a way to collectively explain this in a different way, and more clear way?

 

[Urzeitmensch]

The problem might be the interaction between moisture in the substrate / water dish and humidity in the air. While humidity is not important in the way care sheets state, it is still a indirect factor.

In your example the statement about ventilation is not completely wrong per se. With a lot of ventilation (e.g. in the critter keepers / faunariums) the subatrate might try out more quickly which leads to increased maintenance. Also on other hand, with moist substrate and not enough ventilation you get a humid, stuffy enclosure which can be detrimental to the Ts health.

So while the T does not need humidity in the air at all and their is no need to measure it etc.., humidity is not completely irrelevant as a factor in T-keeping.

Besides, a lot of people on YT etc. simply mix up moisture, humidity etc. Thos happens especially they are not specific enough, e.g. it is unclear if they talk about the ait or the substrate.

 

[SteveIDDQD]

The problem might be the interaction between moisture in the substrate / water dish and humidity in the air. While humidity is not important in the way care sheets state, it is still a indirect factor.

In your example the statement about ventilation is not completely wrong per se. With a lot of ventilation (e.g. in the critter keepers / faunariums) the subatrate might try out more quickly which leads to increased maintenance. Also on other hand, with moist substrate and not enough ventilation you get a humid, stuffy enclosure which can be detrimental to the Ts health.

So while the T does not need humidity in the air at all and their is no need to measure it etc.., humidity is not completely irrelevant as a factor in T-keeping.

Besides, a lot of people on YT etc. simply mix up moisture, humidity etc. Thos happens especially they are not specific enough, e.g. it is unclear if they talk about the ait or the substrate.

I've no issue with the advice about ventilation and how it controls retaining water in the enclosure, I'm not saying that's incorrect or bad at all. It's just using the word humidity while describing methods of keeping the substrate moist.

We need to be clear that we are recommending steps to prevent the substrate drying too quickly, not steps to retain humidity.

I'm aware you cant reduce ventilation and evaporation of water in the enclosure without also increasing humidity, and there's an ideal balance to find, but are we not generally against humid conditions in all our tarantula enclosures? Even those that require damp substrate, we don't want humid air in there above the substrate level if possible, right?

I know I'm arguing about the correct use of one word that somehow has become interchangeable to mean anything that's wet (instead of moisture in the air, which is what it actually means), but I do believe it causes confusion for beginners and we should not use it when describing a wanted requirement, when its basically an unwanted side effect.

I may be off the mark with all this, but after spending time helping beginners on various forums, they really latch onto certain terms and can be easily confused.

 

[Urzeitmensch]

I've no issue with the advice about ventilation and how it controls retaining water in the enclosure, I'm not saying that's incorrect or bad at all. It's just using the word humidity while describing methods of keeping the substrate moist.

We need to be clear that we are recommending steps to prevent the substrate drying too quickly, not steps to retain humidity.

I'm aware you cant reduce ventilation and evaporation of water in the enclosure without also increasing humidity, and there's an ideal balance to find, but are we not generally against humid conditions in all our tarantula enclosures? Even those that require damp substrate, we don't want humid air in there above the substrate level if possible, right?

I know I'm arguing about the correct use of one word that somehow has become interchangeable to mean anything that's wet (instead of moisture in the air, which is what it actually means), but I do believe it causes confusion for beginners and we should not use it when describing a wanted requirement, when its basically an unwanted side effect.

I may be off the mark with all this, but after spending time helping beginners on various forums, they really latch onto certain terms and can be easily confused.

You are absolutely right. The problem is the imprecise use of terminology. I think you are not off the mark here. The wrong use of terms can lead to grave errors as shown by care sheets.

However, this is a problem that is hard to solve. First, the missinformation is already out thete in the net and will only perpetuatr itself. Second, precise use of terminology is hard outside of a professional environment and this is still a hobby and especially beginners are confronted with a lot of terminology, latin names and generally no "general knowledge" or experience many people have e.g. of cats or dogs. Third, the language barrier does not help at all with many non-native speakers like me. There are probably languages where "moisture" and "humidity" are the same word or there are 5 different words for one of them.

All we can do is try to use the correct terminology and educate (and be educated). It is especially important to explain the difference so there are no wrong assumptions. E.g. explaining that humidity in the air is irrelevant.

 

[cold blood]

You need cross ventilation for your tarantula so put holes in opposite sides of the enclosure, but don't put too many holes in the lid as

this is also misleading advice...and BS.

Its literally as simple as adding water when the sub dries....lots of venting just means adding water more often.

 

[Urzeitmensch]

this is also misleading advice...and BS.

Its literally as simple as adding water when the sub dries....lots of venting just means adding water more often.

Is this universally applicable? What about the notorious "stuffy enclosure" problem with Avics? And what about very moisture dependant species like Theraposa? Do you let their substrate also dry out? I am really curious since I have both Theraposa and Caribena and want to provide them the beat possible environment.

 

[cold blood]

? What about the notorious "stuffy enclosure" problem with Avics? And

Avics, and their close relatives like versi, should be kept predominantly dry.

? And what about very moisture dependant species like Theraphosa

Deep sub helps retain moisture longer....for such species, the surface can dry from time to time, but the deeper sub should never be allowed to dry out.

Its just a matter of adding water as needed, in these cases, before things dry completely.

When venting is really good and the air is dry, it just means adding more water, more frequently.

Restricting ventilation slows the evap, so you would be able to add less water, less frequently.

 

[SteveIDDQD]

I don't really worry about stopping the top layer of sub drying out TBH. If you are pouring water in the substrate (instead of spraying) and keeping the lower layers moist, it takes weeks between top ups, even in critter keepers with very open tops.

For my blondi I just check every week and add more water if I think it needs it, but it's usually every other week I overflow the water dish. I wouldn't want to restrict ventilation and potentially cause other issues just so I don't have to fill/overflow the water dish as often. Who doesn't like taking care of and looking at their Ts most days?

 

[Rhino1]

Example 1: the other day I was looking at an old thread regarding a certain species that comes from Brazil, the op was shot down for using a hygrometer and was told to keep it on dry sub with a water dish, I looked at the current conditions in Brazil at the time, it was night time- 19c- 89% humidity. That's darn humid for that temp at night but humidity is irrelevant for this species?
Example 2: there is a trend in Australia where breeders, pet shops etc keep Ts on sopping wet sub in tubs with no air holes, arid species are no exception to this and I've hated this method for 20 years now and will go out of my way to not support this.

So in both examples above the Ts not only survive but grow and molt etc
In my personal experience for how I keep my inverts, I cycle my tanks so everything has dry periods between wetting the sub down which usually is just one corner, in all honesty most enclosures are slightly damp to some degree and never bone dry for long and still I'm waiting to have moult issues.

At the end of the day rainforests experience drought times, arid areas do flood and tarantulas are particularly resilient creatures, as far as humidity in captivity is concerned common sense will prevail.
In the sense of the "H" word tarantulas need some humidity/moisture to function but are tolerant of varying conditions.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Humidity and substrate always has been and always will be a hotly debated topic in tarantula husbandry. All the while no one seems to understand that tarantulas can tolerate a wide range of humidity, temperature (for the most part), and different kinds of dirt.

I was going to make a long ranting post, but @Rhino1 touched on everything I was going to say.

The word "humidity" shouldn't be gotten rid of since it does play an important part in tarantula husbandry. It prevents tarantulas from dehydrating too quickly. Sure, one can keep any tarantula in a dry enclosure (with exceptions), but why make more work for oneself by constantly filling water dishes and pouring water in the substrate? It's nonsense.

These arguments get old over time. One perspective is to maintain a certain level of humidity in a cage while the exact opposite is to go out of the way to make sure there is no humidity. Either way, humidity levels do not matter! What should be avoided is creating a stagnant wet enclosure. That is easy to do considering all containers but the ones designed to be air tight have some ventilation. One doesn't need cross ventilation, screens, or anything else.

It is so odd when people who are so quick to dismiss care sheets are the same one who preach the need for this miraculous cross ventilation and to make sure the substrate is damp every so often. In my opinion, beginners should be taught tarantulas need to be taken care of like plants. Once housed, it is important to water the soil when it gets too dry and to provide some kind of ventilation so conditions do not get too stagnant.

In my experience, any tarantula can tolerate damp conditions a lot better than dry. That was a lesson I learned the hard way years ago when I kept every tarantula but tropical species dry and provided a water dish only because that is what the internet said to do. Well, I experienced too many deaths doing that because the water in the water dish would evaporate too quick and filling it every day was getting too cumbersome. The solution was to soak the substrate when I filled the water dish and started decreasing ventilation. That added humidity prevented my tarantulas from dehydrating too fast and saved me a bunch of time and worry.

So no, lets not get rid of the word "humidity" from tarantula husbandry. Lets understand and provide guidance on how to interpret tarantula behavior to determine if there is a problem. I forgot to mention, tarantulas will tell you what is wrong. One doesn't need to follow a strict care regiment based on what people on the internet think a tarantula needs.

Well, looks like I went on a long rant anyway. Oh well.

 

[lostbrane]

weeks between top ups

Depending on your location. My apartment is so dry that it takes about a week, even with restricted ventilation.

 

[Rhino1]

Depending on your location. My apartment is so dry that it takes about a week, even with restricted ventilation.

Exactly this, a prime example of how every situation is different.

Once housed, it is important to water the soil when it gets too dry and to provide some kind of ventilation so conditions do not get too stagnant

Nailed it.

 

[Urzeitmensch]

This discussion shows why there is so much confusion on the topic of humidity or perhaps better "water managment" for beginners like me. The only real consens seems to be that there is no need to monitor humidity in the air.

When you follow this discussion or any other topic like this one answer tells you "it doesn't matter if dry or moist substrate", one tells you "Only let.the water dish overflow from time to time" one tells you "dampen all the substrate". I have heard on this board that it is safest to keep Ts on the dry side (danger of stuffy enclosure) and the opposite (danger of dehydration).

In addition, depending on species, you get different answers from different keepers. While this may be due to Ts simply tolerating a broad spectrum of environments and simply keeper preferences: If you read this topic from the start, can you really blame a beginner for being completely confused?

I have for the moment settled for what is a "safe" approch for me. I keep one half of the enclosure dry and one half moist with plenty of ventilation. Depending on species I reduce or broaden the moist part. E.g. my brachypelmas only get the water dish overflown slightly while my Theraposa has moist substrate throughout (but I want to let about a third dry out). Is this correct? Frankly, I don't know.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

This discussion shows why there is so much confusion on the topic of humidity or perhaps better "water managment" for beginners like me. The only real consens seems to be that there is no need to monitor humidity in the air.

When you follow this discussion or any other topic like this one answer tells you "it doesn't matter if dry or moist substrate", one tells you "Only let.the water dish overflow from time to time" one tells you "dampen all the substrate". I have heard on this board that it is safest to keep Ts on the dry side (danger of stuffy enclosure) and the opposite (danger of dehydration).

In addition, depending on species, you get different answers from different keepers. While this may be due to Ts simply tolerating a broad spectrum of environments and simply keeper preferences: If you read this topic from the start, can you really blame a beginner for being completely confused?

I have for the moment settled for what is a "safe" approch for me. I keep one half of the enclosure dry and one half moist with plenty of ventilation. Depending on species I reduce or broaden the moist part. E.g. my brachypelmas only get the water dish overflown slightly while my Theraposa has moist substrate throughout (but I want to let about a third dry out). Is this correct? Frankly, I don't know.

You bring up an excellent point here. When someone is brand new to a subject, they are immediately overwhelmed by the amount of contradictory information found on the internet. This doesn't just occur with tarantula husbandry, it happens with any subject. For example, I'm teaching myself a new skill in web development. Anyone who has attempted to teach themselves anything relating to writing code knows that there are 100 ways to do the same thing. A beginner will quickly become overwhelmed and not know what is best.

When conducting research it is important to understand as many different view points as possible, try them, and find what works and what doesn't. When it comes to tarantulas, you are not going to kill it by keeping a species from an arid climate damp for a week and just the same you are not going to kill a tropical species by keeping it dry for a short amount of time. Tarantulas, for the most part, will tell you what works for them and what doesn't. Rehousing a tarantula is a great way to see this in action.

I will use an example from my own recent experience rehousing an Aphonopelma hentzi. Setting up a new enclosure, I put in freshly damp substrate like I do for all of my tarantulas. The A. hentzi immediately climbed to the top of the enclosure and would not come down. This behavior was different from its behavior in its old enclosure with dry substrate where it lived in its burrow most of the time. After a couple of weeks when the new damp substrate started drying out, my A. hentzi came down off of the walls and began to burrow again. It was immediately apparent that A. hentzi likes to stand on dry substrate. However, only the very top of the substrate was dry when it settled down. When it began to burrow, it was doing so in damp soil. So what the heck? Does A. hentzi like dry substrate or damp? The answer is both. When the top layer of the substrate is dry, it seems to trigger an A. hentzi to settle down and start burrowing. But when it finishes its burrow and becomes content, it doesn't matter how much moisture is in the substrate or what the relative humidity is.

Another example comes from my adult female Theraphosa stirmi (now deceased). It exhibited the exact opposite behavior from my A. hentzi. The T. stirmi hardly moved except to eat with damp substrate, but when the top layer dried out, it began climbing the walls of its enclosure and pacing. It settled down as soon as I poured water into the substrate essentially creating a wet environment. I have an indoor/ outdoor thermo hygrometer to take temperature and humidity readings in an attempt to associate some numbers to the change in behavior. When the top layer of my T. stirmi substrate was dry, there was an RH of about 60-70%. After the substrate was soaked, the RH rose to 100% and remained that way for days. In this case, T. stirmi needs to stand on damp substrate regardless of what the RH is.

The point I am trying to make with all of this is that there is no need to worry about humidity, dampness, etc. in a tarantula's enclosure. Listen to your tarantula and not what the internet says. Your tarantula will tell you what is working and what is not. Even your tarantula maybe contradicting what we internet experts have to say. With a bit of patience and trial and error, a new tarantula keeper will learn from first hand experience what is right and what is wrong.

 

[Urzeitmensch]

You bring up an excellent point here. When someone is brand new to a subject, they are immediately overwhelmed by the amount of contradictory information found on the internet. This doesn't just occur with tarantula husbandry, it happens with any subject. For example, I'm teaching myself a new skill in web development. Anyone who has attempted to teach themselves anything relating to writing code knows that there are 100 ways to do the same thing. A beginner will quickly become overwhelmed and not know what is best.

When conducting research it is important to understand as many different view points as possible, try them, and find what works and what doesn't. When it comes to tarantulas, you are not going to kill it by keeping a species from an arid climate damp for a week and just the same you are not going to kill a tropical species by keeping it dry for a short amount of time. Tarantulas, for the most part, will tell you what works for them and what doesn't. Rehousing a tarantula is a great way to see this in action.

I will use an example from my own recent experience rehousing an Aphonopelma hentzi. Setting up a new enclosure, I put in freshly damp substrate like I do for all of my tarantulas. The A. hentzi immediately climbed to the top of the enclosure and would not come down. This behavior was different from its behavior in its old enclosure with dry substrate where it lived in its burrow most of the time. After a couple of weeks when the new damp substrate started drying out, my A. hentzi came down off of the walls and began to burrow again. It was immediately apparent that A. hentzi likes to stand on dry substrate. However, only the very top of the substrate was dry when it settled down. When it began to burrow, it was doing so in damp soil. So what the heck? Does A. hentzi like dry substrate or damp? The answer is both. When the top layer of the substrate is dry, it seems to trigger an A. hentzi to settle down and start burrowing. But when it finishes its burrow and becomes content, it doesn't matter how much moisture is in the substrate or what the relative humidity is.

Another example comes from my adult female Theraphosa stirmi (now deceased). It exhibited the exact opposite behavior from my A. hentzi. The T. stirmi hardly moved except to eat with damp substrate, but when the top layer dried out, it began climbing the walls of its enclosure and pacing. It settled down as soon as I poured water into the substrate essentially creating a wet environment. I have an indoor/ outdoor thermo hygrometer to take temperature and humidity readings in an attempt to associate some numbers to the change in behavior. When the top layer of my T. stirmi substrate was dry, there was an RH of about 60-70%. After the substrate was soaked, the RH rose to 100% and remained that way for days. In this case, T. stirmi needs to stand on damp substrate regardless of what the RH is.

The point I am trying to make with all of this is that there is no need to worry about humidity, dampness, etc. in a tarantula's enclosure. Listen to your tarantula and not what the internet says. Your tarantula will tell you what is working and what is not. Even your tarantula maybe contradicting what we internet experts have to say. With a bit of patience and trial and error, a new tarantula keeper will learn from first hand experience what is right and what is wrong.

Indeed this is something I have already noticed. E.g. my L. Parahybana obviously hovered over the small wet area I gave her initially and when I moistured more substrate she stayed there but dug her burrow on the dry side.

My B. Boehmei hovered over her waterdish for days so I gave her a moist area. Turned out she was in pre-molt and probably needed more water.

 

[SteveIDDQD]

You all are correct.

I want to reiterate, I'm not arguing about the advice given, or wanting discus what is right or wrong in terms of how you set up and maintain an enclosure.

I'm arguing that one word is often used in the same video/post to describe two separate things, one we say is required and another we say either isnt or shouldn't be cared about... There are posts in this thread alone that could easily be interpreted that way.

This discussion shows why there is so much confusion on the topic of humidity or perhaps better "water managment" for beginners like me. The only real consens seems to be that there is no need to monitor humidity in the air.

When you follow this discussion or any other topic like this one answer tells you "it doesn't matter if dry or moist substrate", one tells you "Only let.the water dish overflow from time to time" one tells you "dampen all the substrate". I have heard on this board that it is safest to keep Ts on the dry side (danger of stuffy enclosure) and the opposite (danger of dehydration).

In addition, depending on species, you get different answers from different keepers. While this may be due to Ts simply tolerating a broad spectrum of environments and simply keeper preferences: If you read this topic from the start, can you really blame a beginner for being completely confused?

I have for the moment settled for what is a "safe" approch for me. I keep one half of the enclosure dry and one half moist with plenty of ventilation. Depending on species I reduce or broaden the moist part. E.g. my brachypelmas only get the water dish overflown slightly while my Theraposa has moist substrate throughout (but I want to let about a third dry out). Is this correct? Frankly, I don't know.

Your last paragraph - Thats exactly what I do, and exactly the advice I try to give out. Without mentioning the H word, of course.

 

[InternetSwag]

This was super interesting to read. Thank you

 

[basin79]

Pfffft. Thought it was about getting rid of the word "hobby" when referring to actually keeping live animals.

 

[SonsofArachne]

Pfffft. Thought it was about getting rid of the word "hobby" when referring to actually keeping live animals.

I actually have the opposite reaction to the word hobby. Unless you're doing this as a business, what else could this be other than a hobby? a simple definition of hobby is a interest you pursue in your spare time for "fun". I don't see how the fact that it involves live animals changes anything. I guess if you could call it a "passion" or even "lifestyle", but it still boils down to a hobby.

 

[basin79]

I actually have the opposite reaction to the word hobby. Unless you're doing this as a business, what else could this be other than a hobby? a simple definition of hobby is a interest you pursue in your spare time for "fun". I don't see how the fact that it involves live animals changes anything. I guess if you could call it a "passion" or even "lifestyle", but it still boils down to a hobby.

I know I'm in the minority with my thinking but a hobby is fine when relating to something you do in your spare time. But to refer to looking after live animals it doesn't sit right with me.