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Tarantula venom and cats

Discussion in 'Tarantula Questions & Discussions' started by Robyn8, Jun 18, 2016.

  1. Robyn8

    Robyn8 Arachnoknight

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    From what I understand, bites from tarantula's like P. murinus. S. calcaetum, H. maculata, etc basically most OW tarantula are very dangerous/ life threatening to pets. Now if I got bit because of some stupid error I made, I can live with that. But I can never forgive myself if my cat got seriously injured because of my mistake.

    Note: I am neither ready nor interested in owning OW tarantula's.

    My question is, where does the venom of the Psalmopoeus genus rank? I've read that their venom, as well as their temperament is a step up from other NW species.
     
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  2. Chris LXXIX

    Chris LXXIX Arachnoemperor Active Member

    Well, i have OW's T's of course (and a recently purchased badass venom OW Centipede, IMO probably when venom potency is concerned, powerful than my P.murinus, P.muticus etc) and i have four cats as well. Actually always had an helluva (cold blood) of both (T's & cats).

    So far nothing happened; no bites, no escapes, no close calls. And my cats aren't interested in T's nor knocking down their enclosures at all. They are always in my garden or out in the hood, killing everything that fly :-s

    Anyway, no matter if here on this site there's a P.murinus "cat" bite report that ended well (for the cat, not for the 'OBT') i still wouldn't risk a chance.

    Have no scientific proof about but for my views i suspect that a S.calceatum, P.murinus etc bite on cats would end to bad news.

    As far as P.cambridgei venom potency is concerned, yeah, no doubts. Those are called "Poor Mans Pokie" for a reason. A full wet bite from a 0.1 P.cambridgei (they are quite arboreal beasts lol) would lead the bitten fella into a world of pain. Not into E.R like a 'Pokie' sure. But pain :-s

    Aren't the average "L.P", "Grammos & Brachy" but a lovely, perfect, made by Mother Nature living "bridge" between OW & NW T's.

    About the temperament (which of course always varies) i love their attitude. IMO aren't defensive but, but... fast and not IMO always "shy" like in general 'Pokies' are. Sometimes my lovely Wimpy is a bit unruly :kiss:
     
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  3. Chris LXXIX

    Chris LXXIX Arachnoemperor Active Member

    Here Wimpy investigating "me" and the sound of the enclosure door opening for a cricket/hamburger Tuesday <3

    Wimpy 3.JPG
     
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  4. darkness975

    darkness975 Brachypelma darknessi Arachnosupporter

    Being so much smaller than us I would think most tarantula venom would have some degree of effect on cats that is worse than what would happen to us. But I have no first hand experience with that.
     
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  5. Toxoderidae

    Toxoderidae Arachnoprince

    You should tell my regalis and my striata that poecilotheria are shy! The regalis especially will sit on the door of the enclosure like "open it, I dare you" that and watching a baby P. metallica attempt to threat posture and chase me out of his home.
     
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  6. Chris LXXIX

    Chris LXXIX Arachnoemperor Active Member

    I have no doubts about, man. They are and remain fast as light high strung OW's at the end. Just that in general they aren't a "bite in your face attitude" buggers like a S.calceatum :)
     
  7. Toxoderidae

    Toxoderidae Arachnoprince

    S. calceatum are little demons from Satan's bowels! The pokies are nice and all, but they do often resort to running and screaming in terror.
     
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  8. Chris LXXIX

    Chris LXXIX Arachnoemperor Active Member

    Yeah, they are brutal <--- in a lovely way, i mean :)

    Here in Italy by the Italian Arachnid Society those are rated a good 10/10 as far as temperament (badass) is concerned on a 1 to 10 scale.

    Still remember a re-house for a cage upgrade i had with a S.calceatum of a friend, all of a sudden we started to chase a juvenile high strung flying spider on the walls. All ended well but my heart jumped in my throat and we needed, after, a couple of ice cold "Red Passion" (Campari, of course) drinks for calm down :-s
     
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  9. shining

    shining Arachnodemon

    How dare you underestimate the almighty felis catus.

    Cats possess reflexes and senses rivaled by none. They have thick skin and some a thick coat of hair. Their immune system is better than our own. Their skin, hair and reflexes make a full envenomation bite or sting very rare and if tagged it's not likely to be full on wet. Places most likely to get bit/stung are lacking in meaty tissue, lower leg, paw, skull and that also lowers the chances of a wet bite/sting.

    Have you ever watched your cat hunt and kill? Ever seen a video of cat vs venomous snake, cat vs S. subspinipes, cat vs scorpion, cat vs anything? Sadistic ninjas they are walking away with a new snack every time.

    My friend lives in a secluded part of Arizona where the wildlife is abundant at night. His cats are always dragging home rattlesnakes, C. sculpturatus, Aphonopelma sp and whatever they can hunt down. The only thing he worries about is the coyotes. (My cats do the same just less prey in my area)

    All in all I wouldn't worry about it unless you lack adequate caging, catch cup skills, proper rehousing protocol and or your cat is retarded and lacking it's natural instincts.

    If for some unforeseen tragedy were to take place and my AF obt, or my 7" P. regalis or full grown S. dehaani got out I'd put my money on my cats everytime.
    :cat:
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2016
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  10. Chris LXXIX

    Chris LXXIX Arachnoemperor Active Member

    As an old school cat lover couldn't disagree man :)

    I love when they come home from the hood with a pidgeon in the mouth, leaving that corpse for me, lol, like saying: "Here we provided dinner". Btw have a Black Cat as well :-s
     
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  11. viper69

    viper69 ArachnoGod Old Timer

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    Do you have any primary articles to support this claim? This is very interesting, and I would like to read this to see how the authors defined "better".

    It's one of the more powerful venoms from the NW, maybe the most powerful for Ts. It affects ion channels in the nervous system that are of "secondary" importance to living, ie the venom won't stop one's heart/lungs in humans, but in cats, who knows!

    They tend to go to their burrow when disturbed, but they are extremely nimble, fast and willing to go elsewhere if necessary more so than other NWs IME. They also are built for a semi-arboreal life unlike say Brachypelma.
     
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  12. EulersK

    EulersK Arachnoworm Staff Member

    I have nothing to back this up, but I'd be surprised if a wet bite from some species didn't kill a cat or dog. Or a small child, for that matter. Some of these species aren't a joke.
     
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  13. Chris LXXIX

    Chris LXXIX Arachnoemperor Active Member

    Agree my man Eric Bana <-- joking :)

    It's our duty as Theraphosidae scholars (damn IMO that sounds too righteous class & mighty pompous :pompous:) to never forget that there's things/facts we doesn't know, like a bite in a sensible area (neck, face, head... you name one) delivered from powerful venom badass OW's Arachnids. Granted, very highly unlikely, but.

    When it comes to childrens & that, IMO we are exploring the "wild". So advertising this is always a class A "Brother" thing.
     
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  14. shining

    shining Arachnodemon

    No articles to back that up.

    I shouldn't have said better. There are no definitive parameters to gauge the strength of an organism's immune system as specific pathogens and bacteria target specific organisms. You can only say this organism has less pathogens and such targeting it and less chances of coming into contact with said pathogen.

    Something that is scientifically proven is cat's digestive systems have evolved to eat raw meat and digest all those nasties without ill effect i.e. E. coli and salmonella. Don't forget about the healing factor of the purrs.

    Just to make this clear, I wasn't saying cats are immune to the venom just making points on how unlikely they would be to actually get envenomated. I do not doubt because of their body mass is a fraction of ours that it would be more fatal. Then again, take a look at the honey badger (using as an example for contrasting body mass) taking naps after being deeply envenomated by a cobra to just wake up and finish it's prey item where as we us humans would just die. Since we are saying smaller body mass creatures will succumb to the venom more easily I wonder how the indestructible tardigrade would fare from some OW venom. That would be interesting.

    Who knows the truth to venom tolerance amongst felines and humans, I do not, nor do I wish to find out first hand. OW ts aren't something to be taken lightly and neither is the predation prowess of felines.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2016
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  15. Storm76

    Storm76 Arachnoemperor Active Member

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    Psalmopoeus spp. venom generally (!) has no systemic effects. But there are a some people that had fast hearbeat, sweating, vomitting and the like reportedly - which contradicts that claim and could be argued to have been a somatic reaction of the person bitten "Oh god - I've been bit!" sort. I'm no toxologist, nor arachnologist, but I'm assuming those cases were reactions of the individual person bitten, not caused by the venom itself.

    It is however quite painful due to the three Vanillotoxins within the venom targeting the same neuronal receptor that capsaicin does (the alkaloid from hot chili peppers , also known as TRPV1 which causes the burning sensation). So imagine getting injected with that stuff under your skin. Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure a cat would survive a bite from these.

    General guideline for Psalmopoeus spp. is they're fast, usually hide when disturbed but depending on the situation can be defensive standing their ground willing to bite anything approaching them. They're beautiful though, inexpensive to acquire and widely available.
     
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  16. Robyn8

    Robyn8 Arachnoknight

    Very interesting read, thanks! Also a bit offtopic but i love the youtube video you made about taking care of avic slings. I'm going to get some A. versicolor slings and house them in the pots you mentioned in your video.
     
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  17. Storm76

    Storm76 Arachnoemperor Active Member

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    Thanks. Now that you mention that...for over half a year I wanted to make an updated version of that very video but somehow never got it done thus far. Thanks for reminding me, I really need to get that done. The advice is going to be unchanged for the most part, but I want it a bit more streamlined and easier to watch with more examples.
     
  18. mistertim

    mistertim Arachnobaron

    I think Poecilotheria tend to be like a generally affable, if shy, person who doesn't want trouble from anyone and will tend to avoid it if at all possible. But he also happens to carry an Uzi in his jacket and is an expert with it.

    S. calceatum is basically a 'roided out psychopath with the same gun.
     
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  19. viper69

    viper69 ArachnoGod Old Timer

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    Nice colors Tim!
     
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  20. Chris LXXIX

    Chris LXXIX Arachnoemperor Active Member

    IMO? S.calceatum and H.maculata are like Henry & Ottis on their prime killing spree moments. While genus Poecilotheria ones acts more a la Dhamer, lurking fellas.

    P.murinus? Richard Ramirez ah ah
     
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