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Tarantula venom, and anaphylaxis

Discussion in 'Tarantula Questions & Discussions' started by Matabuey, Sep 16, 2016.

  1. Matabuey

    Matabuey Arachnosquire

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    That does sound like an allergic reaction on some level, not the greatest - obviously.

    But in terms of if you were to take a pokie bite, true spider venom and tarantula venom are very different in composition. You wouldn't be allergic to a pokie, but you may well be allergic to another true spider that shares the same compounds in their venom that you're allergic too - from the true spider you were bitten by.

    Such as, if you become allergic to cobra venom, you're quite likely to also be allergic to a large group of elapids that contain 3 finger toxins.

    How does T venom stack up compared to true spiders? There's too much a disparity between invidivauls to say. Some true spiders are totally harmless and some are reasonably dangerous (not many people die from even very toxic true spiders these days).

    But T's are not life threatening, unless in very very very acute circumstances. So if you're worried about being possibly allergic to a pokie after your experience with a true spider - you don't need to be. Unless of course you get bitten multiple times by a pokie - but even then it's a long shot due to the reasons listed in my original post.
     
  2. Abyss

    Abyss Arachnoknight

    Got ya, i always just practiced extra caution due to fear of a reaction lol
     
  3. The Snark

    The Snark هرج و مرج مهندس Old Timer

    Has this ever gotten excessively complex, even bordering of messianic.

    Let's slam the brakes on here. Tourniquets. EVERYONE who has that word go through their mind during a medical crisis, would each of you quickly and concisely explain the following:
    Peripheral venous profusion restriction by mechanical or chemical intervention vs arterial. What mechanisms are available and what vital sign indicators must be monitored in each instance?
    If you didn't whip out the correct answers, you aren't qualified to use a tourniquet. Okay? Said, done, finis.


    VENOMS. Read, poisons. They act upon certain biological functions of certain animals. Depends on the venom, depends on the animal, depends upon the delivery mechanism, depends upon the quantity, depends upon the profusion, depends upon the metabolism, depends on the sensitivity and the condition of the immune system of the patient.
    The effects of venoms are reasonably predictable, but obviously unless you are a medical expert with an extensive battery of tests available, consulting an expert is in order when you are in doubt.
    Example. Take a Paramedic with a couple of decades of trauma experience inclusive of numerous envenomations. After the BLS, what does the Paramed do? CALLS THE ER TO GET EXPERT ADVICE!!!

    Allergies and allergic reactions. Anaphylaxis. HYPER as in big time. lots lots. Sensitivity. A reaction or response to an invasive chemical, sometimes out of all proportion to the quantity of the chemical introduced to the body. IE, the body immune system and related physiological responses go berserk. Bananas. Freak out.
    Hypersensitivity can compound the problem. Make it worse. And since hypersensitivity uses both the blood stream and the neuron pathways, the physiological responses may be entirely unpredictable.
    Example: typical classical anaphylactic reaction to Penicillin. Up to ONE WEEK AFTER the drug is administered, an intense itching occurs. The itching may be localized or involved the entire body. The itching is so extreme patients commonly have to be physically restrained to keep from scratching and causing bleeding abrasions.

    And last, shock. Shock can kill. Shock takes many forms from numerous causes. The body can go into shock from simply seeing something. People who watch and thoroughly enjoy shocking horror movies are actually enjoying their physiological chemical responses to psychogenic shock. Chemicals released causing mild euphoria.
    Shock of some degree commonly accompanies just about any trauma. It accompanies envenomation, physiological and systemic shock. It accompanies anaphylaxis, anaphylactic shock.
    NEVER DISCOUNT SHOCK. The trauma may be trivial but the shock from it can cause clinical death.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. Chris LXXIX

    Chris LXXIX Arachnoemperor Active Member

    How do you explain what happened to a user cold blood acquaintance, that after a 'Pokie' bite (sorry man I don't remember now which 'Pokie' was) had her arm completely turned 'gray' like a George A. Romero 'zombie' for a pretty nice time?

    I mean, wasn't that a sort of allergic reaction? cold blood posted the pic, btw. Was impressive.
     
  5. viper69

    viper69 ArachnoGod Old Timer

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    Are you saying the information I learned from a venom expert, is wrong? If so, hope you don't use a tourniquet and die some day!

    I'll trust a venom expert who works with venomous snakes any day on what to do or not to do when bit.

    See toxicologist....
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/04/AR2006100401529.html

    Here's some science for you

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2961108

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4052258/
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. Matabuey

    Matabuey Arachnosquire

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    No, most likely just a bit of cyanosis - lack of oxygen in the blood in that particular area. Although from my memory, when i saw the pic i swear it was really poor quality - so was hard to tell the extent of it.
     
  7. cold blood

    cold blood Moderator Staff Member

    20150401_182114.jpg
     
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  8. Pseudo

    Pseudo Arachnopeon

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    I missed some of the information, but all I can say is don't own a pet if you have an allergic reaction to it that can cause life threatening problems. o_o
     
  9. Andrea82

    Andrea82 Arachnoking Active Member

    Sound advice. Until you get a pet of which you don't know you're allergic :D
     
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  10. Rickie

    Rickie Arachnopeon

    Great information, thanks for sharing!
     
  11. mygale

    mygale Arachnoknight

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  12. atraxrobustus

    atraxrobustus Arachnosquire Active Member

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    The thing is that you can have an Anaphylaxis reaction to well.. pretty much anything, by definition. Statistically, it's not likely, overall, and usually happens with multiple bites. That said, as to the potential lethality of a given species, I would say that we should first verify that the species involved in the bit was correctly identified. (Medical professionals tend not to do well in terms of identification.)
     
  13. SingaporeB

    SingaporeB Arachnopeon

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    jon3800

    That's the answer.
     
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  14. Andrea82

    Andrea82 Arachnoking Active Member

    The lawnmower again... :shifty:
     
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  15. Chris LXXIX

    Chris LXXIX Arachnoemperor Active Member

    He's a pundit when it comes to lawnmowers and fire alarms. He needs to be reconsidered :)
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  16. SingaporeB

    SingaporeB Arachnopeon

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    He has a blackboard, chalk and an eraser. That makes him a teacher.
     
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  17. MrButton

    MrButton Ruler of Straight Lines Arachnosupporter

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    What an informative piece! Thank you. Being new to the hobby I appreciate information like this.
     
  18. Thomas Loomis

    Thomas Loomis Arachnopeon

    The fear of spiders is at the heart of the misinformation. The uninformed overestimate the level of risk and seize upon any opportunity to malign spiders.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Thomas Loomis

    Thomas Loomis Arachnopeon

    I've read this post 10 times. The original data about peptide binding and immunosuppressive activity as it relates to anaphylaxis are the key element. Therophosid venom categorically has an incorrect molecular structure to induce anaphylaxis reliability. I suspect their may be comorbidity in cases where the outcome is anaphylactic. Serious nerve disruption causing pain response is in and of itself not harmful, just very uncomfortable. As to the response that spoke of shock causing complications, I suspect other comorbidities are present in those cases as well.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Sanman

    Sanman Arachnopeon

    Great read!!! Thank you for the information!