Substrate, sponges, and h2o

[matypants]

I’m gonna go all in and ask a legit question that has occurred to me:

How is drinking through substrate different from drinking off a sponge. Bacteria yes, but bacteria can be found in both right?

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

I’m gonna go all in and ask a legit question that has occurred to me:

How is drinking through substrate different from drinking off a sponge. Bacteria yes, but bacteria can be found in both right?

Good question. As someone who has, and is currently raising, many spiderlings to adulthood without water dishes I will provide my observations.

Sponges are meant to trap water and other liquids. The problem with using them as a staple for providing water to any invertebrate is when they are left to fester in a water dish over time. The feeder insects walk and defecate all over them, they maybe absorbing all sorts of waste, and all the while the sponges hold water then bacteria, mold, and other nasties are able to grow very quickly. After a period of time, the sponge will trap water on the inside where a tarantula would not be able to drink from it. Sponges, in theory, wouldn't be a problem if constantly replaced with a clean, well rinsed one on a regular basis. A dehydrated tarantula will be able to drink from it without issue as long as it is sopping wet.

All the above can be said about various substrates or soil mixtures used with tarantulas. Coco fiber substrate soaks up water and retains it like a sponge. When I use coco fiber with my tarantulas, they can only drink from the surface of the coco fiber when it is sopping wet after I pour a bunch of water into it. If thirsty enough, tarantulas will hold the wet substrate to their mouths as if they were eating it. I haven't noticed any bacterial infections that cause illness or death in the tarantulas that drink from coco fiber in this manner, so I am assuming bacterial growth is at a minimum or tarantulas' immune systems are able to fight it off before it becomes an issue. Because coco fiber highly absorbent and retains water like a sponge, it is a poor choice for keeping tarantulas sans water dish.

Loamy soils used as substrates, like topsoil, have poor drainage but excellent water retention. With tarantulas I use topsoil with, or a topsoil/ coco fiber mix, water poured onto the substrate takes longer to absorb into the substrate creating small pools. These pools of water is what a tarantula drinks from and they drink much more easily from it than a highly absorbent substance. When given a choice, tarantulas will drink from pools of water on the substrate over a freshly filled water dish. Tarantulas have a hard time drinking from water dishes if the top is not flush with the substrate. Water dishes meant for reptiles don't have this problem since they are designed with sloped sides making it easy for a tarantula to climb in.

No matter what substrate is used, there is still the matter of bacterial growth. Again, I have raised many tarantulas from spiderling to adult without water dishes and I have never lost one due to bacterial infection. At least, I don't think so; there is always that possibility though. I must say though, the majority of the tarantulas I keep are from temperate climates which can withstand periods of dryness. I do let the substrates dry out completely before watering the soil. Perhaps that maybe why none of my tarantulas have died off from bacterial infections. On the other hand, I have raised tropical species, such as Theraphosa blondi, without water dishes but kept their soil constantly damp.

Another matter to consider, is that when tarantulas are kept properly without lots of ventilation, they don't dehydrate too quickly. The added humidity in the air in their enclosures minimizes dehydration from evaporative water loss. Spiderlings and larger juveniles kept without water dishes, but with constantly damp substrate, may not be drinking frequently if at all. They maybe getting enough water from their food and the added humidity from damp substrate keeps that moisture in their bodies.

To answer the question more directly though. There really isn't a difference between providing water via a wet sponge and providing water by way of soaking the substrate. Both materials, will retain water and provide a breeding ground for bacteria, mold, and other micro organisms. The wild card here is if tarantulas are affected by it.

 

[matypants]

Good question. As someone who has, and is currently raising, many spiderlings to adulthood without water dishes I will provide my observations.

Sponges are meant to trap water and other liquids. The problem with using them as a staple for providing water to any invertebrate is when they are left to fester in a water dish over time. The feeder insects walk and defecate all over them, they maybe absorbing all sorts of waste, and all the while the sponges hold water then bacteria, mold, and other nasties are able to grow very quickly. After a period of time, the sponge will trap water on the inside where a tarantula would not be able to drink from it. Sponges, in theory, wouldn't be a problem if constantly replaced with a clean, well rinsed one on a regular basis. A dehydrated tarantula will be able to drink from it without issue as long as it is sopping wet.

All the above can be said about various substrates or soil mixtures used with tarantulas. Coco fiber substrate soaks up water and retains it like a sponge. When I use coco fiber with my tarantulas, they can only drink from the surface of the coco fiber when it is sopping wet after I pour a bunch of water into it. If thirsty enough, tarantulas will hold the wet substrate to their mouths as if they were eating it. I haven't noticed any bacterial infections that cause illness or death in the tarantulas that drink from coco fiber in this manner, so I am assuming bacterial growth is at a minimum or tarantulas' immune systems are able to fight it off before it becomes an issue. Because coco fiber highly absorbent and retains water like a sponge, it is a poor choice for keeping tarantulas sans water dish.

Loamy soils used as substrates, like topsoil, have poor drainage but excellent water retention. With tarantulas I use topsoil with, or a topsoil/ coco fiber mix, water poured onto the substrate takes longer to absorb into the substrate creating small pools. These pools of water is what a tarantula drinks from and they drink much more easily from it than a highly absorbent substance. When given a choice, tarantulas will drink from pools of water on the substrate over a freshly filled water dish. Tarantulas have a hard time drinking from water dishes if the top is not flush with the substrate. Water dishes meant for reptiles don't have this problem since they are designed with sloped sides making it easy for a tarantula to climb in.

No matter what substrate is used, there is still the matter of bacterial growth. Again, I have raised many tarantulas from spiderling to adult without water dishes and I have never lost one due to bacterial infection. At least, I don't think so; there is always that possibility though. I must say though, the majority of the tarantulas I keep are from temperate climates which can withstand periods of dryness. I do let the substrates dry out completely before watering the soil. Perhaps that maybe why none of my tarantulas have died off from bacterial infections. On the other hand, I have raised tropical species, such as Theraphosa blondi, without water dishes but kept their soil constantly damp.

Another matter to consider, is that when tarantulas are kept properly without lots of ventilation, they don't dehydrate too quickly. The added humidity in the air in their enclosures minimizes dehydration from evaporative water loss. Spiderlings and larger juveniles kept without water dishes, but with constantly damp substrate, may not be drinking frequently if at all. They maybe getting enough water from their food and the added humidity from damp substrate keeps that moisture in their bodies.

To answer the question more directly though. There really isn't a difference between providing water via a wet sponge and providing water by way of soaking the substrate. Both materials, will retain water and provide a breeding ground for bacteria, mold, and other micro organisms. The wild card here is if tarantulas are affected by it.

Yes! Yes to that. And in my mind, a sponge is also a poor substitute due to the nature of its surface. I could be wrong but that’s my intuition. I’ve always just overflowed the dish for the tropical and kept a clean seemingly unused one for the arid.

Why the mystery is what I don’t understand. Lol

Is it just down to the fact that they are spiders and somewhat alien?

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Yes! Yes to that. And in my mind, a sponge is also a poor substitute due to the nature of its surface. I could be wrong but that’s my intuition. I’ve always just overflowed the dish for the tropical and kept a clean seemingly unused one for the arid.

Why the mystery is what I don’t understand. Lol

Is it just down to the fact that they are spiders and somewhat alien?

I don't understand the question here. What mystery are you referring to?

 

[boina]

There really isn't a difference between providing water via a wet sponge and providing water by way of soaking the substrate. Both materials, will retain water and provide a breeding ground for bacteria, mold, and other micro organisms.

I don't really agree here. Every substrate you use will develope a balanced bacterial population over time. Most of the bacteria all around us thrive just perfectly on soil. Poop gets quickly broken down and intestinal bacteria disperse/die and don't really thrive because of the competition. Any tarantula sucking up the bacteria that are there will mostly just digest them - I mean, they end up in the stomach after all. For the few others there's still the immune system.

This doesn't go for sponges. The clean surface contains less nutrients, so less bacterial species will thrive. Now it gets soiled/pooped on. Intestinal bacteria from poop will have less competition, disperse less and thrive better. It's mainly a statistical problem, but it's more likely for a tarantula to pick up intestinal bacteria that can actually survive in the stomach from a sponge than from soil.

 

[Vanisher]

The diffrence in my eyes is that in a dish with standing 25 degree celsius water maybe with tarantula feces and foodremains, the water is more prone to accumulate bacteria than water in the substrate. (The soil is kinda works with biological breakdown and has a natural microfauna that cleanses the water??) A sponge in a waterdish is Especially bad if one forget to change the water in the waterdish every day But i dont know if the sponge gonna have more bacteria,if you change the spinge and wster every day!i am no chemist! Pure speculation from my side. I know that a sponge is totally unnessesary though. The spider can drink from a waterbowl without a sponge!

 

[matypants]

I don’t really believe in sponges. And the mystery is that there aren’t many consensus’s about anything, the exception being sponges.

 

[MintyWood826]

For more reading
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/im-confused-about-tarantulas-drinking-from-substrate.311714/

 

[matypants]

For more reading
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/im-confused-about-tarantulas-drinking-from-substrate.311714/

Lol yeah. Nobody cares about sponges. That died out years ago with the exception of pet stores and Jungle Bob. And the first two posts are an argument. You can’t buy very many consensus’s here.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Lol yeah. Nobody cares about sponges. That died out years ago with the exception of pet stores and Jungle Bob. And the first two posts are an argument. You can’t buy very many consensus’s here.

You are right in that there will hardly be any consensus on any specific topic regarding the care of tarantulas in captivity. The majority of the advice and information out there on the internet is based on assumptions and a lack of understanding of what goes on inside of a tarantula or its environment whether it be in captivity or in the wild. Rightfully so since the biology and physiology of tarantulas is not a very well studied topic in the academic world. In other words, what sounds more correct usually becomes the accepted means of captive care regardless if a series of statements is actually correct. This leads to contradictory information, arguments, and so on. Generally speaking, tarantulas adapt very well to a wide range of conditions. As long as the basic needs of food, water, and shelter are met tarantulas do just fine in captivity no matter how those needs are fulfilled. It is only until tarantula keepers as a whole start experimenting and deviating from a generally accepted care regiment that one will understand the wide margin of error that is available until a tarantula starts becoming ill or uncomfortable.

In the context of the question asked here though, tarantulas will be able to drink just the same from a clean wet sponge, wet substrate, or a water dish. Experimenting with using all three methods of providing water with many different species over time will tell you which is best.