Substrate mixes for diggers and their tunnels?

[Jonesdal]

So I have multiple T's that tend to dig. I feel like it is kinda important to notice how your T want's to live and try to help aid that living style to the best of abilities. So my big question for the night is substrate mixtures. I want to start experimenting with substrate mixtures for my more terrestrial/fossorial buddies. I have an A seemanni that I can experiment with for this, while all my others are so small (or literally a log on so much substrate) that the coco fiber is fine . But the thing is, as the seemani excavates I noticed her tunnel collapesed because of how thin of a layer she left. Going forward I don't want that to happen especially for say my B cabocla or P lugardi. I'm sure I have months to years before this becomes any kind of problem for them. But I like to be prepared for anything. I'm looking for a mixture that will have strength to hold it's shape while still being loose enough that they can manipulate it. The hold the shape has to be a big thing for my seemanni because when I got her she was missing a spinarette, so I'm not really sure about her web capabilities and am hoping it will come back when she molts.

 

[The Grym Reaper]

I use a mix of topsoil, sedge peat and fine vermiculite.

Holds a burrow even when it completely dries out.
You can pack it down solid and a tarantula can still dig through it without issue.
Very mould resistant (vermiculite aerates the soil mix and peat has a slightly acidic pH)
Retains moisture well.

 

[FrDoc]

Topsoil and topsoil, plus a little topsoil. Nine out of ten T’s recommend it! My collection, albeit somewhat limited, is closely being dominated by fossorials, and I use straight topsoil with no issues.

 

[Venom1080]

People get so fancy with it..

Peat moss. Nothing added. Works fine. You don't need to ever use some special mix. I'd go as far to say that's a waste of time.

Spiders excavate and re-excavate constantly. Dont be alarmed if their tunnel is collapsed. They're probably working on a new one. I have a P muticus that's changed its mind about it's tunnels probably 10 ten times now. By your definition, I ought to be scared for it. But tarantulas can dig themselves out without issue.

 

[Vanisher]

I use pure peat myself, works well!

 

[The Grym Reaper]

You don't need to ever use some special mix. I'd go as far to say that's a waste of time.

Personal preference at the end of the day, people swear by straight coco-fibre but I wouldn't use it if you paid me

 

[Vanisher]

I found coco fibre way to loose and crumby, but as you say, personal taste!

 

[Patrick McFarland]

Iv'e been using coco fiber and agree that it is too loose especially when it dries out. Going to try to switch to a peat/ cocofiber mix.
Has anyone ever had any issues from bacteria in the topsoil?

 

[The Grym Reaper]

Has anyone ever had any issues from bacteria in the topsoil?

Na, if anything, it's actually helpful, sterilised substrate is more prone to mould/pest infestations as the first thing to come into contact with it has free reign to reproduce unchecked.

Just make sure it doesn't contain any additives and avoid "organic" (all this means is that the additives are organic) like the plague. Basically, just get the cheapest stuff you can find

 

[Vanisher]

Organic topsoil has a addition of cow feces! But there is very little added. It doesnt smell ir anything. I have used it without issues! Just like Grym reaper said, it is not the microorganism and bacteria that are harmfull (quite the opposit) it is the chemical fertilizer one doesnt want! Use soil without any of this!

 

[The Grym Reaper]

Organic topsoil has a addition of cow feces!

I'm not 100% on it but I believe some use vegetable scraps as fertiliser as well as manure

 

[Jonesdal]

1st off thank you all for your comments and recommendations. I'm gonna stop at lowes today and grab a nice bag of top soil. I'll see how she fares with that first before any additional additives. If it works out well for her then i might just use it for everybody and use up my left over coco fiber for sling care and feeder homes.

 

[Vanisher]

I'm not 100% on it but I believe some use vegetable scraps as fertiliser as well as manure

I guess some do!?

 

[Jonesdal]

People get so fancy with it..

Peat moss. Nothing added. Works fine. You don't need to ever use some special mix. I'd go as far to say that's a waste of time.

Spiders excavate and re-excavate constantly. Dont be alarmed if their tunnel is collapsed. They're probably working on a new one. I have a P muticus that's changed its mind about it's tunnels probably 10 ten times now. By your definition, I ought to be scared for it. But tarantulas can dig themselves out without issue.

My concern isn't the substrate. I know they can fair well in the dirt. My B cabocla literally flasshes a leg or a booty every so often in it's tunnel to let me know it's alive. But the thing is what happens if you have something like a piece of wood collapse down with the substrate. And I'm taling wood not cork bark. That is more my concern.

 

[korg]

But the thing is what happens if you have something like a piece of wood collapse down with the substrate. And I'm taling wood not cork bark. That is more my concern.

This is exactly why a lot of keeps won't put logs, rocks, heavy stuff, etc in their enclosures... in a theoretical burrow collapse or if the enclosure got tipped/dropped it increases risk to the spider.

 

[Jonesdal]

This is exactly why a lot of keeps won't put logs, rocks, heavy stuff, etc in their enclosures... in a theoretical burrow collapse or if the enclosure got tipped/dropped it increases risk to the spider.

Don't have rocks or anything truly heavy in it. I just have half cylinder petco wood piece for the entrance of the burrow on the top and a small petri dish water bowl. But even piled up dirt can make the lightest of feather cork barks into an asteriod.

So i went to lowes and got a 40lb bag of multi purpose, no additive, no compost, no nothing top soil recomended for filling holes for $1.57 including tax. Gonna do the cricket test and see how that fares.

 

[u bada]

I use straight coco fiber. All my burrowers are fine with it. I initially put it in a tad damp and pack it and they are able to build into it. I find they web the tunnels so that adds for support- my one asian fossorial webs the tunnels rather thickly, and the aussies web the areas of the holes they need to no problem. Also I use cork pieces in certain ones enclosures, the bigger s american ones, that they can use as part of the tunnel that won't collapse if it ever would. But coco fiber is pretty hard once packed and dried. Meaning if they burrow into it while wet, once it dries it's pretty solid.

I've used straight peat and omg it molds really fast. And I've used top soil and omg it molds really fast and this is for dry sub care (especially around the water dish). maybe depends on everyone's local sources? I've used mix of peat and vermiculate and collapses fairly easy and moldy. I've used peat and coco mix and it gets moldy... and so straight coco it has been... I do think packing it down and leaving a hole or area near cork piece as a start to a burrow has made the difference.

For other inverts of course a different mix is needed depending on their needs... but for t's I think the simplest, cleanest is the best- well, as they say, to each their own...

 

[Jonesdal]

I use straight coco fiber. All my burrowers are fine with it. I initially put it in a tad damp and pack it and they are able to build into it. I find they web the tunnels so that adds for support- my one asian fossorial webs the tunnels rather thickly, and the aussies web the areas of the holes they need to no problem. Also I use cork pieces in certain ones enclosures, the bigger s american ones, that they can use as part of the tunnel that won't collapse if it ever would. But coco fiber is pretty hard once packed and dried. Meaning if they burrow into it while wet, once it dries it's pretty solid.

I've used straight peat and omg it molds really fast. And I've used top soil and omg it molds really fast and this is for dry sub care (especially around the water dish). maybe depends on everyone's local sources? I've used mix of peat and vermiculate and collapses fairly easy and moldy. I've used peat and coco mix and it gets moldy... and so straight coco it has been... I do think packing it down and leaving a hole or area near cork piece as a start to a burrow has made the difference.

For other inverts of course a different mix is needed depending on their needs... but for t's I think the simplest, cleanest is the best- well, as they say, to each their own...

I too also use coco fiber. And after the month it's been on it, the coco fiber has literally just turned into crumbles, and I started it as semi damp then put a top coat of super dry so the 2 I had procured would stay off of the walls. And the coco isn't suitable for my T missing a spinarette. She can't web, so everything is going to crumble and collapse no matter what she does, that will probably fix itself within the next molt, but she is alredy 4-5 inches, so that could be a while off. As for the mold issue, coco fiber can mold as well, if you tried so many things and they all molded, chances are that the coco fiber will eventually mold not due to you but possibly your environment. Perhaps it would be wise to invest in some springtails.

In other news, my crickets have survived the test. I really hope this works out better for her.

 

[Predacons5]

Topsoil or topsoil and sandy loam mix.

Sandy loam and topsoil mix holds unusual shapes well. Easy to recreate an embankment type landscape when kept moist. If you create starter burrows, they don’t collapse.

 

[u bada]

I too also use coco fiber. And after the month it's been on it, the coco fiber has literally just turned into crumbles, and I started it as semi damp then put a top coat of super dry so the 2 I had procured would stay off of the walls. And the coco isn't suitable for my T missing a spinarette. She can't web, so everything is going to crumble and collapse no matter what she does, that will probably fix itself within the next molt, but she is alredy 4-5 inches, so that could be a while off. As for the mold issue, coco fiber can mold as well, if you tried so many things and they all molded, chances are that the coco fiber will eventually mold not due to you but possibly your environment. Perhaps it would be wise to invest in some springtails.

I don't get mold with coco fiber unless I really keep it wet which of course is not good and I don't do, damp at best. Again, I find once I started packing it down and it dries out there's structure to it, even if they don't web as much as others. That's just my experiences. I have a 4-5" b. albopilosum that burrowed down 4-5" long tunnel without too much web with no problems and now I keep her very dry the sub is pretty hard, in the same way peat gets super hard when completely dried out. Look, not trying to convince you just putting it out there for other members that also haven't had good experiences with top soil and peat.

I actually love the look of a mixed sub with (safe) chunks of this and twigs of that and it's really cool to see t's pull things together and make burrows into and out of that stuff, but for me I just don't have the time to try that out as of yet.

Topsoil or topsoil and sandy loam mix.

Sandy loam and topsoil mix holds unusual shapes well. Easy to recreate an embankment type landscape when kept moist. If you create starter burrows, they don’t collapse.

Loam does give structure to soil. I'm a plant guy mainly and this loam, sand, even clay all give certain structures to soil for plant and animal life for sure depending on care needs of plant and animals, and with the right balance you can get a great mix no doubt for burrowers and I do agree top soil would be a great choice, IF the top soil you can get itself is good for your culture/ care and for the needs of t you're talking.