springtails

Galapoheros

ArachnoGod
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Joined
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Messages
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Although it's prob not a good idea to let them go, it's probably not a problem either. I've been reading this thread and I hate to see people get too fanatic or "scared" of something that might not be a problem. The chytrid prob with frogs, nobody knows where that came from. It could've have been here for millions of years, coming in waves over time. And the flue-like problem with our native tortoises announced years ago, we haven't heard much more about that, all I've seen out in the wild have looked healthy to me. At least it was the toads being talked about. I scanned this thread at first and thought, "Oh no, this guy is afraid to let Springtails go back to nature." haha. A fungal or bacterial infection a toad will get in captivity is going to be everywhere in nature, nature keeps it in check. Let the toad go and nature will probably take care of the toads infection if it's not too bad, just like the grain mite problem the invert hobby has, it's not a typical prob in nature because of the pred mites and other factors in it's natural environment. And a "deadly strain" coming from the hobby doesn't sound realistic to me, are there any biochemist, pathologists, etc. here that could state the odds here? I just need to see more hard core info about this kind of thing and I'm ready to look at it if somebody can show me. There is probably a lot to look at, I simply haven't looked for the info yet. I think of dead cow carcasses in a small tank in nature, tadpoles swimming around there, fecal run-off, these guys can put up with a lot.
 
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SandDeku

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Messages
594
Although it's prob not a good idea to let them go, it's probably not a problem either. I've been reading this thread and I hate to see people get too fanatic or "scared" of something that might not be a problem. The chytrid prob with frogs, nobody knows where that came from. It could've have been here for millions of years, coming in waves over time. And the flue-like problem with our native tortoises announced years ago, we haven't heard much more about that, all I've seen out in the wild have looked healthy to me. At least it was the toads being talked about. I scanned this thread at first and thought, "Oh no, this guy is afraid to let Springtails go back to nature." haha. A fungal or bacterial infection a toad will get in captivity is going to be everywhere in nature, nature keeps it in check. Let the toad go and nature will probably take care of the toads infection if it's not too bad, just like the grain mite problem the invert hobby has, it's not a typical prob in nature because of the pred mites and other factors in it's natural environment. And a "deadly strain" coming from the hobby doesn't sound realistic to me, are there any biochemist, pathologists, etc. here that could state the odds here? I just need to see more hard core info about this kind of thing and I'm ready to look at it if somebody can show me. There is probably a lot to look at, I simply haven't looked for the info yet. I think of dead cow carcasses in a small tank in nature, tadpoles swimming around there, fecal run-off, these guys can put up with a lot. Although it's prob not a good idea to let them go, it's probably not a problem either. I've been reading this thread and I hate to see people get too fanatic or "scared" of something that might not be a problem. The chytrid prob with frogs, nobody knows where that came from. It could've have been here for millions of years, coming in waves over time. And the flue-like problem with our native tortoises announced years ago, we haven't heard much more about that, all I've seen out in the wild have looked healthy to me. At least it was the toads being talked about. I scanned this thread at first and thought, "Oh no, this guy is afraid to let Springtails go back to nature." haha. A fungal or bacterial infection a toad will get in captivity is going to be everywhere in nature, nature keeps it in check. Let the toad go and nature will probably take care of the toads infection if it's not too bad, just like the grain mite problem the invert hobby has, it's not a typical prob in nature because of the pred mites and other factors in it's natural environment. And a "deadly strain" coming from the hobby doesn't sound realistic to me, are there any biochemist, pathologists, etc. here that could state the odds here? I just need to see more hard core info about this kind of thing and I'm ready to look at it if somebody can show me. There is probably a lot to look at, I simply haven't looked for the info yet. I think of dead cow carcasses in a small tank in nature, tadpoles swimming around there, fecal run-off, these guys can put up with a lot.
That's confusing. I was just told it wasn't really a problem to begin with... Since anything they may acquire would more or so be if I didn't run a "clean" set up on all my animals' cages. My fishtanks and terrariums are almost all the time clean(not saying like its spotless--- animals do take a dump here and there--- I just spot clean and do regular cleaning). I always freak out about everything. Just don't think this would really be that big of an issue... Tadpoles came from WILDCAUGHT toads--- therefore that means any "Wild" bacteria that was from the pond and in the parental toads---> would have been passed onto the offspring. That's how it goes. Plus the toads laid eggs immediately. I never placed them with the other wild caught toads. They laid eggs in a clean enclosure. I then moved the eggs to the 29g with all the filtration/air pumps they hatched. Turned the filter off. Put in more air pumps. Did regular weekly water cleaning and etc.

I may just let them go cannibalistic(not all but a great deal). But I'm wondering--- i s that even possible amongst SMALL american TOADLETS? Maybe ill just treat them for whatever -they- may have and let them loose. OR I may just give them away/sell them. I don't think toadlets will go cannibalistic on the same sized brethren.

I also don't think they're that sensitive like other people are saying--- that's where they got me. I mean if you think they're ultra sensitive you must be drunk or something because I'ved seen tadpoles in dirty water comming from human sewers and the tadpoles grown okay. I even seen weird film atop the water making me think some sort of oil spill. AND STILL tadpoles growing in that water. MAYBE ill get a good camera some day and take pictures of the friggin' places I'ved been too. lololol. These places are like wastelands. Smell like stangnant and putrid waters. Still frogs/toads grow on them.

So I DEFENITELY don't think panacure will kill them. lol. Especially since when I do water changes I do them quick and they may be a bit rough sometimes. I pour the water in quickly(its too heavy of a bucket....---- you try doing water changes for over 200's of gallons--- all summed up in tanks and then scold me about it . lol). Sure its not the best thing that I rushed the water changes but non died during that process. I even once put in hotter water by accident which wa sa few degreess hotter. And once it was colder.... nothing happened. They kept on lkiving. toads are hardier imho.
 

Malhavoc's

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 12, 2003
Messages
2,837
Although it's prob not a good idea to let them go, it's probably not a problem either. I've been reading this thread and I hate to see people get too fanatic or "scared" of something that might not be a problem. The chytrid prob with frogs, nobody knows where that came from. It could've have been here for millions of years, coming in waves over time. And the flue-like problem with our native tortoises announced years ago, we haven't heard much more about that, all I've seen out in the wild have looked healthy to me. At least it was the toads being talked about. I scanned this thread at first and thought, "Oh no, this guy is afraid to let Springtails go back to nature." haha. A fungal or bacterial infection a toad will get in captivity is going to be everywhere in nature, nature keeps it in check. Let the toad go and nature will probably take care of the toads infection if it's not too bad, just like the grain mite problem the invert hobby has, it's not a typical prob in nature because of the pred mites and other factors in it's natural environment. And a "deadly strain" coming from the hobby doesn't sound realistic to me, are there any biochemist, pathologists, etc. here that could state the odds here? I just need to see more hard core info about this kind of thing and I'm ready to look at it if somebody can show me. There is probably a lot to look at, I simply haven't looked for the info yet. I think of dead cow carcasses in a small tank in nature, tadpoles swimming around there, fecal run-off, these guys can put up with a lot.
Thank you for emphasising the point in several places gala; you are right, toads can put up with alot making them the perfect hosts.

Again your right, Nature takes care of itself; a good case of this is the ice ages the planet goes through due to imbalances building up- you know how this goes a complete whipe and start again same can be said for minor ecosystems when a human induced plague can occur, and other amphibians are highly sensitive (que missing frogs in cities)


As for a good solid example that you wanted to look into, que the cricket epidemic, one virus strain alone whiped out almost all captive bread crickets that we use as a staple in our industry, how was this accomplished? by the spread of the virus through human interference, it traveled from europe to north america in a very short time, this virus was also a threat to our wild ecosystems aswell.

When talking about amphibians you have to remember that they transfer oxygen directly through their skin layer making them much much more sensitive then other animals, this has been proven and documented, we have impacted their populaces alot as is. if his toad was host to just one thing it has the potential to kill an entire pond off.

And we're not just limiting it there, I am sure you are fimiliar with radiation sickness, and the spread of radation? our houses and garages are litered with all kinds of chemicle polutants, even having soap residue on the hands can be transfered to an animal-> then to the next animal-> etc


Yes, this is all very doomish, very scary. and may have low odds, but if the odds are higher then one, I would say- dont do it when it comes to an already damaged ecosystem, there is no reason to make things worse.

When you collect wild animals you should always think ahead, I have seen Sandeku post on many topics lately about a large amount of various animals and he is doing a very good job asking for advice but one must always remember, if you are going to capture anything with any intent of breeding occur you must plan for the offspring before they happen not during.

T L : DR :: Never release animals into the wild, Even if you caught them there after housing them for a short time<->long time. you are taking a sensless risk. and plan ahead of any animals you do have, what you will do with them/breeding etc.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
SPRINGTAILS:
for toadlets you can also do an isopod culture instead of springtails, these breed prolificly and their young should be small enough for toadlet ingestion, same with pinhead crickets as the average toadlet is the same size as a dart frog. you could also look into ants, which are more prolific, small rice beetles etc. pitfall trips should work very well for collecting of various small insects for you to try, remember toads will eat anything that moves at least once, you can experiment with what they like/ what breeds proflificly and can be cultured.


edit:
Also guys we're not talking about just toads here, or amphibians but the impact of those toad on everything of where he lets them go. It doesnt take a genious to relize that wildlife near or around human populaces is no where near that of the same graphical region without human aid. we alter things drasticly, then most complain about it.
 
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Galapoheros

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
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Messages
8,982
I understand your stance on it, it's a legit stance imo. I understand you liking the blanket rule. But I have the view that it can go overboard, just like anything else. "Radiation sickness"? I'm talking about native toad-lets this guy has. He's not next to a melt down, high levels of radiation in areas can be natural regardless, radon, animals do fine there. "Cricket virus", was that due to a non-native encounter? That was a good example. The crickets seem fine now besides. Balance? maybe I agree with you but trying to create a balance on the topic. "Ice age", not going to happen by letting some baby native toads go, haha, just kiddin, had to take that one out of context. A tiny amount of soap residue wouldn't cause a problem to a population. The spiders that wander in and out of our homes, the toads that hop in and out of our garages at night, etc., I would say this is not a problem to populations, ...but I know you might say, "but is it?" I'm not going to kill a toad because I think it's contaminated if I find it in my garage, ..well, maybe MY garage, it's pretty bad in there. Many amphibians can put up with a lot, not because they are able to carry many hosts, but because they are able to ward them off with so many natural chemical agents they produce that I know you know about. If I catch a toad and keep if for three days, I'm going to let it go with no worries whatsoever. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your stance but I question the reason-ability of making it law-like in every case. I still wonder about it, if it's best to make it law-like or not. One reason I think this kind of hard-core thinking on an issue bothers me because there is a law here is Texas that has made it a personal one to me so I think I'm being a little biased on the issue. A game warden here told me that a person cannot legally pick up a slug, grasshopper, or any other living thing without a hunting license here in Tx, ..on their own property!, it has become unreasonable. He said it's usually not enforced but that it is there. Anyway, I like you bringing it up, the risks, people do need to think about it.
 

SandDeku

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Messages
594
Thank you for emphasising the point in several places gala; you are right, toads can put up with alot making them the perfect hosts.

Again your right, Nature takes care of itself; a good case of this is the ice ages the planet goes through due to imbalances building up- you know how this goes a complete whipe and start again same can be said for minor ecosystems when a human induced plague can occur, and other amphibians are highly sensitive (que missing frogs in cities)


As for a good solid example that you wanted to look into, que the cricket epidemic, one virus strain alone whiped out almost all captive bread crickets that we use as a staple in our industry, how was this accomplished? by the spread of the virus through human interference, it traveled from europe to north america in a very short time, this virus was also a threat to our wild ecosystems aswell.

When talking about amphibians you have to remember that they transfer oxygen directly through their skin layer making them much much more sensitive then other animals, this has been proven and documented, we have impacted their populaces alot as is. if his toad was host to just one thing it has the potential to kill an entire pond off.

And we're not just limiting it there, I am sure you are fimiliar with radiation sickness, and the spread of radation? our houses and garages are litered with all kinds of chemicle polutants, even having soap residue on the hands can be transfered to an animal-> then to the next animal-> etc


Yes, this is all very doomish, very scary. and may have low odds, but if the odds are higher then one, I would say- dont do it when it comes to an already damaged ecosystem, there is no reason to make things worse.

When you collect wild animals you should always think ahead, I have seen Sandeku post on many topics lately about a large amount of various animals and he is doing a very good job asking for advice but one must always remember, if you are going to capture anything with any intent of breeding occur you must plan for the offspring before they happen not during.

T L : DR :: Never release animals into the wild, Even if you caught them there after housing them for a short time<->long time. you are taking a sensless risk. and plan ahead of any animals you do have, what you will do with them/breeding etc.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
SPRINGTAILS:
for toadlets you can also do an isopod culture instead of springtails, these breed prolificly and their young should be small enough for toadlet ingestion, same with pinhead crickets as the average toadlet is the same size as a dart frog. you could also look into ants, which are more prolific, small rice beetles etc. pitfall trips should work very well for collecting of various small insects for you to try, remember toads will eat anything that moves at least once, you can experiment with what they like/ what breeds proflificly and can be cultured.


edit:
Also guys we're not talking about just toads here, or amphibians but the impact of those toad on everything of where he lets them go. It doesnt take a genious to relize that wildlife near or around human populaces is no where near that of the same graphical region without human aid. we alter things drasticly, then most complain about it.
I'm thinking I can just find some homes for the toadlets via selling/giving away/etc. So that problem just came out with its own solution. As well as for isopods--- never had luck breeding them. Isn't it that they only breed "once" a year?

I could try ants. I just don't know if they're toxic for the toadlets....

---------- Post added at 12:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 AM ----------

I understand your stance on it, it's a legit stance imo. I understand you liking the blanket rule. But I have the view that it can go overboard, just like anything else. "Radiation sickness"? I'm talking about native toad-lets this guy has. He's not next to a melt down, high levels of radiation in areas can be natural regardless, radon, animals do fine there. "Cricket virus", was that due to a non-native encounter? That was a good example. The crickets seem fine now besides. Balance? maybe I agree with you but trying to create a balance on the topic. "Ice age", not going to happen by letting some baby native toads go, haha, just kiddin, had to take that one out of context. A tiny amount of soap residue wouldn't cause a problem to a population. The spiders that wander in and out of our homes, the toads that hop in and out of our garages at night, etc., I would say this is not a problem to populations, ...but I know you might say, "but is it?" I'm not going to kill a toad because I think it's contaminated if I find it in my garage, ..well, maybe MY garage, it's pretty bad in there. Many amphibians can put up with a lot, not because they are able to carry many hosts, but because they are able to ward them off with so many natural chemical agents they produce that I know you know about. If I catch a toad and keep if for three days, I'm going to let it go with no worries whatsoever. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your stance but I question the reason-ability of making it law-like in every case. I still wonder about it, if it's best to make it law-like or not. One reason I think this kind of hard-core thinking on an issue bothers me because there is a law here is Texas that has made it a personal one to me so I think I'm being a little biased on the issue. A game warden here told me that a person cannot legally pick up a slug, grasshopper, or any other living thing without a hunting license here in Tx, ..on their own property!, it has become unreasonable. He said it's usually not enforced but that it is there. Anyway, I like you bringing it up, the risks, people do need to think about it.

The whole thing is confusing.... x____x;;;; I just let the toads breed having thought in mind that I'd release basically 96% of them and letting them live out their days in the wild where they can roam free. Because in captivity many people say their chances are less of survival. But look at this way: No predators, -ussually- no "overcrowding", no pollution(where I saw some ponds with already pollution and still toads breed there), high amounts of foods, clean water, good shelter, etc. etc..

I pretty much figured it'd be a good learning project and I'd be doing the toad population a favor. But I'm extremely gullible--- so right now Iam at a stand off of what I should do....
 

Malhavoc's

Arachnoking
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Messages
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Some ants are more potent then others a 'smell' test usualy works well enough for my tastes, some ants like carpenters and the subterrianian orange ones are very much so loaded with their acidic spray, which prometly smells like citrus or viniger, alarming a few and smelling will tell you how much they put out in defense. The smaller redish ones I've noticed dont spray nearly as much.
 

SandDeku

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Messages
594
Some ants are more potent then others a 'smell' test usualy works well enough for my tastes, some ants like carpenters and the subterrianian orange ones are very much so loaded with their acidic spray, which prometly smells like citrus or viniger, alarming a few and smelling will tell you how much they put out in defense. The smaller redish ones I've noticed dont spray nearly as much.
I bought more fruitflies. I fed all the adults as there's a ton of larvae already in the container. Or what I believe is larvae of fruit flies. Whitish worms larger than the fruit flies themselves. By 2x or so. I have atleast 5flies in the container.
 

Malhavoc's

Arachnoking
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Messages
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fruitflies will work perfectly, I still think they can handle larger prey but it certianly will get them started.
 

SandDeku

Arachnobaron
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Messages
594
fruitflies will work perfectly, I still think they can handle larger prey but it certianly will get them started.
I bought them small crickets a bit larger than the pinheads but basically and literary the same sized as the toadlets... I haven't seen the crickets since but that could be cause I haven't gave a good luck or the crickets may have escaped(no lid) lol.

I bought fruitflies today---basically emptied almost all the adults leaving only 3-5flies in there into the pile of toadlets. Toadlets went at them voraciously but they're kinda "skittish" when they're feeding. Like they miss or may loose interest--- then another toadlet gobbles them up before the one that lost interest regains interest. lolol There's a TON of larvae in the container where the fruitflies came with. I'm wondering what I can use for my medium. I can't buy the medium or make it due to I'm missing some stuff.... like yeast.... And my mom just thinks its ridiculous to make a medium for the fruitflies out of household stuff. She gives me that shhpeal about how there's poor people in need of homes and foods. But not to sound messed up--- I just hear that line sooo much everywhere I tend to not really give a hoot about it. I make donations and such, that's the farthest I really will go. I'm not a die hard fan about charities. Not saying I wouldn't help. But more or less saying-- it happens I'm not a miracle worker... I'm what? 20? Anywho.... Point short---- all I got to work with is:
-Sugar
-Vinegar
-Honey(pure)
-Baking soda
-Water(duh-- lol)
-Apples(can only really take one though--- my dad is like uppity about his apples....)
-Sometimes tomatoes
-Rarely bananas(currently not in)
-Rice
-Flour
-Milk powder
We sometimes and I say sometimes but very very very rarely mashed potato mixed. We used to eat it alot but my mom stopped buying it... Soooo... yeah...

Anything I can do to make an "okay" mix that will last me a long time and works great as a medium? and won't acquire mold soo quickly? Btw I have a blender--- but i'd rather not use it... My mom is possesive of it.... That'd be something I'd have to do without her even being here which may take a while since she's always home or atleast al mostt always...

Any ideas? :/
 

Malhavoc's

Arachnoking
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If you have the money to order fruitflies just go to the market and buy a small bag of yeast, otherwise you could try the mixture without it, I am not entirly certian what role the yeast takes in the whole process.
 

SandDeku

Arachnobaron
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Joined
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Messages
594
If you have the money to order fruitflies just go to the market and buy a small bag of yeast, otherwise you could try the mixture without it, I am not entirly certian what role the yeast takes in the whole process.
to prevent any fungus growth.... the one where I fed all the adults is now getting some larvae in. o_O i think they were laid by the previous adults. So now I have I guess "two" cultures. I wonder if I can just use a fruit in there and let it be just t he fruit as a medium.
 

SandDeku

Arachnobaron
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read the article i linked :)
I already did... I'am looking for alternatives.. I already know the plain out forms of breeding them with normal mediums. I'm trying to find alternatives FOR yeast.
 

Crysta

Arachnoprince
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I already did... I'am looking for alternatives.. I already know the plain out forms of breeding them with normal mediums. I'm trying to find alternatives FOR yeast.
Ah, well, why not just go to the grocery store and buy a 1$ packet of yeast that will last you for a long while?

you dont really need the yeast, it just means your stuff gets ..bloopy quicker. I had fruitflies appear all the time in my fruit bowl and they did just fine without yeast. lol
 

SandDeku

Arachnobaron
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Ah, well, why not just go to the grocery store and buy a 1$ packet of yeast that will last you for a long while?

you dont really need the yeast, it just means your stuff gets ..bloopy quicker. I had fruitflies appear all the time in my fruit bowl and they did just fine without yeast. lol
Mk can I just use fruits? instead of going through the whole process? xD

Wonder if honey would be okay...
 

moose35

Arachnoprince
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Messages
1,351
Mk can I just use fruits? instead of going through the whole process? xD

Wonder if honey would be okay...
why not just listen to the advice your given?? :?
your not gonna get too much help that way.



moose
 

khil

Arachnobaron
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Messages
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thanks for the link crysta
I'd breed fruit flies but the substance is always a pain, I've never gotten it right. It's either too watery, or molds, and I'd rather save money than buy the premade kind. I wonder if just fruits will actually work, haha.
 
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