Spider bite?? Any ideas?? This is gross Just to let you know

[buthus]

i don't want to comb through 12 pages for the complete play-by-play, but i think someone needs to make it known that skin necrosis isn't the same as a brown recluse bite and that a picture of a superficially similar wound doesn't mean that much.

Ok ...Ill bite. Probably not what you're lookin' for, but whatever...

These wounds in this pic have been healing very well now for about 2 days. They were much more inflamed, larger and deeper ...constantly filling and scabbing over but like all the wounds im showing here, they remained soft under the scabs allowing external water to just wash away the scab revealing a deeper hole each time til about mid-week, then they started filling back in slowly..2 steps forward, one step back sorta deal.
The spider that had nothing to do with the wounds is a SoCal collected
native... very likely Loxosceles deserta.

Swear to gosh she walked over to the wounds, turned to me, rolled 3 pair of eyes and gave me that.. "pfffft. ..thats nothin'" look.

This wound was way bigger and deeper. Its kinda swelling up around itself and raising while slowly closing up. Again, every time scar tissue forms over the wound, it fails to "take" and turns to mush. Happy its finally shrinking...cause its one of only a few that had me slightly worried. I could scoop out the mush and the hole was nasty deep.. also this one and a couple others kept turning black even a couple days after all the other wounds started to progress in a positive way. Anyway...not a wound to write home about, but imho a classic start to a potentially narly necrotic problem.
The spider that had nothing to do with the wound is a Brown Recluse proper ..L.reclusa.

This wound never got deep, but it swelled way up and redness formed in lines ..i suppose the problem was spreading through vascular paths. If it weren't for its obvious scrape wound shape, I bet i could have passed it off as a spider bite wound.
The spider shown in this one ...which, btw, had nothing to do with the wound, nor did she want anything to do with this silly photo shoot for that matter... anyway, shes a fav individual of mine ..a big old L. laeta.

These little wounds appeared a few days after the others. They were simple hives caused by dealing with a few rats of mine that NEED baths. When the hives receded, small scars appeared and holes formed just like all the other wounds. They finally look like normal scars now.
The little Loxo that had nothing to do with these wounds is actually mature ...tiny compared to the other species ive kept. I collect these in Vegas and I am not sure what specie they are nor will I guess.
In Vegas, home associations are poisoning thousands of homes every year to kill this spider. Vegas ground is hard as rock and it floods now and then ...perfect distribution of poison covering the desert valley floor.
Big contracts for the exterminators ...ya gotta figure their sales rep has a few images of nasty necrotic wounds ..eh? :?

 

[Craig]

It almost looks like a methaicillin resistant Staph. aureus wound or something. Did they do a culture of the site and see what bacteria it is? There is no way that is a spider bite. Toxins from Agkistrodon are not even that bad. If it was a venomous bite I would think it would have to have been from a rattlesnake and the horse would be exhibiting systemic effects of the venom and maybe die.

I would think that is bacterial. It looks bacterial to me anyways. Also full blood work would also help show what is going on. If it was from a pitviper the horse's PT and APTT would be off. I have a few very close friends that are vets. I would love to get their opinions. private message me with as much info from the other vets as you can if you are interested.

 

[buthus]

You people think you can stare at the horse's wound in the pic and make valid guesses to what caused it? Come on! Wake up! That wound is WAY beyond its initial cause. Could a spider have "caused" it? ..YES. Could a tick, or some other "bug" have "caused" it? YES. A snake?...sure. A splinter, sliver, scratch...a run-in with a chunk of barbed wire ...how bout a boil, a blister? How 'bout an internal issue?...like a small blood clot? Very likely even at its beginning, it was a combination of things.
I met an old snake dude on a hike I went on a few years ago. We started talkin' about keeping/"handling" crazy creatures and he asked me if I had any "war wounds". Jokingly I showed him my finger that was freshly bleeding a bit from a tiger pede that I just got done collecting. He stuck his hand out ...it was nasty..I couldnt believe I somehow missed the fact that he had a chunk of finger missing and what was left of it along with a good amount of his hand was darkened...maroon/purplish ..permanent and nasty. "Copperhead" he said. He was handling a snake when he should not have been...got distracted (he was at a party and he was drunk and attempting to impress some females ...seriously thats what he told me.. :clap: ) So...being the party animal AND the expert, tough guy snake dude ...he figured he'd get thru it ...maybe get med attention later. (ahh...boooze...bottled over-confidence!) Well, the venom did its thing, mushing up cell structure and whatnot ...and things started getting BAD very quickly. Turns out that he got some weird staph or other bacterial issue ...probably from the snake, but who knows..there is fecal matter and all kinds of "crap" everywhere...even on you...all the time.
His "war wound" started with a snake, continued with something that can be cultured in a dish and ended with the surgeon's scalpel. Dominoes!

Its a new age for general knowledge. Its no longer about what one was taught by the people around them, but a phrase imputed into a search engine, a post on a forum, a home-spun web page about grandma's rotting foot wound...etc, etc. Knowledge is now at the mercy of bots ...constantly changing and working itself out, yet, even the unproven, the misconceptions AND the lies ..all are being reinforced. Sure, posts in this thread (for example) that question and/or dispel any spider connection to the wound shown help dumb down the literal link to the ongoing and growing recluse mythology. But, they DO NOT affect the digital link and that means now we've added a nasty horse wound to the ever expanding pile o'crap that has become the general knowledge about Recluse spiders and spiders in general.
Arachnoboards is probably within the top 5 contributors to the problem while it SHOULD be the TOP contributor to the solution. Why? because its big (loads of hits all day long), its reinforced by TONS of keywords within its text and the links posted to and from within it. Remember...the bots are in control and they aint fact checkers. ..they are popularity enforcers.
Suppose ill get in trouble here, but.. I gotta say it. If Arachnoboard's admin/mods took half the time they spend trying to decide if d***ed meant "darned" or "damned" defending the creatures they care about along w/the general knowledge/science surrounding those creatures ...they'd actually have something TRULY noble and worthwhile to do.
But clowns are to be ignored, so we will continue chucking water balloons at tanks hoping at the very least someone will get the joke and realize that it aint no joke. :2: :?

 

[Kuronishen]

I put my money on a necrosis or bacterial infection, not from a spider bite (That's pretty bad even by recluse standards). Cottonmouth snakes can cause necrosis/gangrene with their bites, perhaps that might be what happened? :?

 

[buthus]

(That's pretty bad even by recluse standards)

aaahhhh! ...now THATS where the problem begins ...but it never seems to end. :clap:

 

[Craig]

I have really significant veterinary experience. I was stating facts. I also went to school and did pre med/vet (Zoology). I have been working with animals in a clinical setting for over 7 years! I was stating scientific facts relevant to the case.

I also study various toxins and their effects. I am especially interested in reptile and invert. toxins. I was not pulling information out of my backside or google for that matter!!!!!!

 

[Galapoheros]

It's a guessing game at this point. I would think a horse, with the thick skin and hair, ...not a spider bite, esp. a recluse. My first thought was rattlesnake bite.

 

[LeilaNami]

It's a guessing game at this point. I would think a horse, with the thick skin and hair, ...not a spider bite, esp. a recluse. My first thought was rattlesnake bite.

Definitely. As I said before, any possible entry wound for infection (which is what I'm leaning towards) or venom would have been sloughed off long ago.

 

[buthus]

I have really significant veterinary experience. I was stating facts. I also went to school and did pre med/vet (Zoology). I have been working with animals in a clinical setting for over 7 years! I was stating scientific facts relevant to the case.

I also study various toxins and their effects. I am especially interested in reptile and invert. toxins. I was not pulling information out of my backside or google for that matter!!!!!!

Trying to figure out why i haven't felt like responding til now..i mean, you seem to be the type of person i and i'd hope others like me would want "on the case". Maybe its the "!!!!+" cause the last time I saw that it was quad fs and the conductor was saying "play super loud with a whining voice."

Check out Venom's posts, they slice through MY mindset like a dagger w/a little drip on the tip.

 

[Tarantulysis]

IMHO,most bites contributed to spiders turn out to be some kind of 'runaway' bacterial infection.Keep in mind were dealing with a horse.Its not likly any spider short of a tarantula would be able to get a bite on the thick hide. my vote not a spider,mabey a snake mabey a bad infection(bot flies?).

 

[LeilaNami]

IMHO,most bites contributed to spiders turn out to be some kind of 'runaway' bacterial infection.Keep in mind were dealing with a horse.Its not likly any spider short of a tarantula would be able to get a bite on the thick hide. my vote not a spider,mabey a snake mabey a bad infection(bot flies?).

Well with botflies, the botfly itself will usually lay eggs in the knees of the horse and cause bumps to raise on the skin. There could be a secondary infection but once again that leads back to bacteria. Also if you read the thread where those pictures are from, the infection starts as "quarter-sized holes" and then the necrosis starts. New holes started appearing as well. Animals would be ruled out then because I seriously doubt one would be continuously biting the horse.