1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

So, turns out sand spiders are the most venomous?

Discussion in 'True Spiders & Other Arachnids' started by LurkingUnderground, Jul 10, 2018.

  1. LurkingUnderground

    LurkingUnderground Arachnosquire Active Member

    Advertisement
    I heard they did a study with the sand spider and the venom is the most potent and quick acting out there. Could be wrong because I mean there was rumors going around about daddy long legs.(the single segment and or the true spider.)
     
  2. basin79

    basin79 Arachnoking Active Member

    The daddy long legs/harvest man is obviously utter rubbish.

    However Sicarius sp do indeed have very, very potent venom. I don't think there's been enough research done though.

    That typed Sicarius are extremely unwilling to bite. I can only put that down to how precious their venom is.

    They are however absolutely brilliant to keep. Seeing them leap out of the sand and then bury again with their prey is fantastic to see.

     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. LurkingUnderground

    LurkingUnderground Arachnosquire Active Member

    Some said they took like twilve to twenty rabbits/rats and after, I guess milking the the spider the rodents were dead after 'inducing' a bite in like 10 minutes.
     
  4. The Snark

    The Snark هرج و مرج مهندس Old Timer

    When comparing venoms, environment and adaptation need to always be taken into account. Where prey is minimal the more potent the venom as a rule, but many other factors enter into this. As a gross example, average Sicarius would have vanished from the planet long ago if they employed the hunting tactics of a sprassid. Sicarius are the perfect ambush predator in their tiny little niche in an extremely hostile environment. Only the potency of their venom enables them to catch sufficient prey to survive.
    Compare to the deadliest venom killer on the planet, Opheophagus Hannah, the King Cobra. It's venom isn't in the top 50 of the most potent. Other factors enter into the works.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 2
  5. basin79

    basin79 Arachnoking Active Member

    I thought it was the Russel's viper that killed the most humans?

    Either way you're right regarding venom.
     
  6. The Snark

    The Snark هرج و مرج مهندس Old Timer

    I believe, and feel free to correct me here, that if bitten, the Russells is more likely to cause death. This being due to the mid species that packs both hemo and neuro toxins. Mid species. Their venom alters according to environment. In hot areas it primarily produces the neurotoxin while in cold climes it packs a hemotoxin to aid in digestion.
    Both Hannah and Russells-Saw Scale share the target rich environment of a very dense human population but the viper is more reclusive and has a much smaller hunting area.
    Interestingly, the Krait comes in a very poor third in people killing even though it's venom is much more potent and it also lives in the same human population density. It simply has different habits and is usually only 'bite hostile' during the evenings*. If the Inland Taipan lived in India... it would be an entirely different ballgame.

    * I discovered Krait traits the hard way. During the day they laze along and amiably accept me hooking them off the roads. But come evening it's a Jekyll and Hyde number where they are bite happy to the max.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Love Love x 1
  7. basin79

    basin79 Arachnoking Active Member

    I'm in no way educated in the death rates of humans due to venomous snakes. It was just something I'd read online.

    I was agreeing with your "the most venomous animal" isn't the most deadly though.

    I mean look at how many mosquitos kill and they're not even venomous.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. The Snark

    The Snark هرج و مرج مهندس Old Timer

    One thing the brain free mostest bestest biggest deadliest sensationalism crowd never takes into account is range of the animal. Mosquitoes can travel 5 miles in a 24 hour period. Hannah can easily cover a similar distance. Thus, more potential contact with people. Sicarius on the other hand may not move more than a few yards during their entire life span. Compare to Hannah that has a normal range that takes then into human contact just about every day. (Recalling a Hannah found on the fifth floor of a hotel in the middle of downtown Bangkok.)
    I saw a computer model of Dengue spread a while back. Reduced to small areas at the end of the hot seasons, the ranging of the mosquito during the rainy season was this fascinating fluctuating flood that followed the rainfall patterns until nearly all of SE Asia was covered. Then it receded as the dry season took over.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  9. NYAN

    NYAN Arachnodemon Active Member

    687
    260
    68
    CA
    I believe it is the saw scaled viper which kills the most people annually. Also, as mentioned by others, the daddy long leg thing is a complete myth. Daddy long legs can be names for 3 different animals, 2 of which aren’t even spiders. Also as mentioned above, the venom of sicarius isn’t too well known. I read one study of the venom from sicarius ornatus being compared to loxosceles laeta( I’ll find the article and link it) and the sphingomyelinase d content of the venoms. I think that the African sicarius tend to have the most potent venom, but still not much is known. What I understand is there have been 2 suspected bites, one person died from internal hemorrhaging I believed and the other lost a limb? These bites are only suspected. I will try to find the article. Oh and a side note, I have one of my own coming in soon hopefully. Super excited!

    Article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23991242/
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  10. The Snark

    The Snark هرج و مرج مهندس Old Timer

    I just checked 4 authorities then gave up. Deaths from snake bites per year in India is 11,000, 46,000, 10,000-50,000 or 42,000. All those are very rough guesstimates. Many bites and deaths go unreported.
    I've heard mostly that Hannah causes more deaths. However, going by the lower toxicity of their venom the bite victim has a better chance of survival if untreated. Russells and Saw Scale pack about the same load of nearly identical venoms but the Saw Scale is much more common. With either, without prompt treatment survival is unlikely. The Krait, the #4 killer is as I mentioned above, usually only bite inclined during a limited time frame.
    So it would be safe to assume the Saw Scale is the #1. Think of a snake as bite happy as a rattler with much more potent venom in a country one third the size of the US that has 1.3 billion people and emergency medical services only effectively covers 15% of the country..
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. Wolfspidurguy

    Wolfspidurguy Arachnobaron

    Idk i think Phoneutria fera have them beat seing there venom is a neurotoxin if im remembering correctly and you need a licence to keep them. Theres just something about slowly feeling intense pain flow through your body and then slowly loseing feeling in your limbs that freaks me out more than anything on this planet
     
  12. NYAN

    NYAN Arachnodemon Active Member

    687
    260
    68
    CA
    Officially, a female wandering spider on eggs would be the most venomous. The most potent species are P. Fera P. Nigriventer and P. Keyserlingi. Yes the venom is a neurotoxin, however the symptoms you mention are not the entirety of being bitten. From what I read symptoms can be: loss of muscle control, pain at the bite site, sweating, a slew of excitatory symptoms including the infamous effect on males, pulmonary edema, etc. I’ll link an article I read. However, spider venom isn’t designed to act on humans, therefore even the most venomous of spiders have a relatively low fatality percentage of 5% ish. Also, who said you need a liscense to keep wandering spiders? Perhaps in certain states, but here the restricted animal list doesn’t include them.

    Article: https://www.wandering-spiders.net/phoneutria/toxicity/

    A bite report:

    “Case report. A 52-year-old man was bitten on the neck by an adult female Phoneutria nigriventer. Immediately after the bite, there was intense local pain followed by blurred vision, profuse sweating, tremors, and an episode of vomiting; 1–2 h post bite the patient showed agitation and a blood pressure of 200/130 mmHg, and was given captopril and meperidine. Upon admission to our service 4 h post bite (time zero – T0), his blood pressure was 130/80 mmHg with a heart rate of 150 beats/min, mild tachypnea, agitation, cold extremities, profuse sweating, generalized tremors, and priapism. The patient was treated with anti-venom, local anesthetic, and fluid replacement. Most of the systemic manifestations disappeared within 1 h after anti-venom. Laboratory blood analyses at T0, T1, T6, T24, and T48 detected circulating venom by ELISA only at T0, before anti-venom infusion (47.5 ng/mL; cut-off, 17.1 ng/mL); his serum blood sugar was 163 mg/dL at T0. The patient was discharged on the second day with a normal arterial blood pressure and a follow-up evaluation revealed no sequelae. Conclusion. This is the first report of confirmed moderate/severe envenoming in an adult caused by P. nigriventerwith the quantification of circulating venom.”

    For more information see: Bucaretchi et al. 2008: Systemic envenomation caused by the wandering spider Phoneutria nigriventer, with quantification of circulating venom Clinical Toxicology (2008) 46, 885–889.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  13. LurkingUnderground

    LurkingUnderground Arachnosquire Active Member

    Now we are getting into the realm of who has the worst bite. When I think the stids was about how effective/quick it is. I didn't look into the study just heart about it. Like on youtYou. "The most venomous spider, and it is a whimp"
     
  14. NYAN

    NYAN Arachnodemon Active Member

    687
    260
    68
    CA
    With how little is known about the venom, I don’t think there’s a way to be certainly if it is the most venomous spider or not. Fair to say that a bite will mess you up and you should avoid it. Also, YouTube is often not a good source for information, especially if you don’t plan to fact check things. I’ve seen the video you mentioned also.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Wolfspidurguy

    Wolfspidurguy Arachnobaron

    In my opinion the worst bite would be something slow and painful bonus points if it leaves your body with irreparable damage (like a neurotoxin would do if given enough time) but the Phoneutria feras bonus symptom that i cant say here for fear of my account getting quickscoped from across the map is enough to make its bite my actual worst fear
     
  16. NYAN

    NYAN Arachnodemon Active Member

    687
    260
    68
    CA
    Read about sand spider venom. Definition of possible irreparable damage and slow and painful.
     
  17. Wolfspidurguy

    Wolfspidurguy Arachnobaron

    I
    Im assumeing you mean the six eyed sand spider just want yo make sure im Googleing the right bite
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. NYAN

    NYAN Arachnodemon Active Member

    687
    260
    68
    CA
    The spider from the genus sicarius.
     
  19. Wolfspidurguy

    Wolfspidurguy Arachnobaron

    I recant everything ive said i would rather fight agent 47 with my bare hands and blind folded than come into contact with one of these it doesnt matter how reclusive they are a 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance of being bitten is too high risk i enjoy haveing my tissue and enclosed red blood cells
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  20. schmiggle

    schmiggle Arachnoprince Active Member

    What a whimp. Back in my day these things used to crowd the streets, and all we had to eat for lunch were spitting cobras. They had to be transported live so they stayed fresh.
     
    • Funny Funny x 3