Sidney Funnel Web Spider

[Steve Nunn]

Originally posted by Venom
Out of curiousity, do you have LD50 stats on Atrax/ Hadronyche, or know where they can be found?

A.robustus

It is a protein, MW 4854 (calculated from amino acid
sequence), with 42 amino acid residues, with a high
proportion of basic residues, 8 cysteine residues with 4
disulphide bridges and has a pI >9 and an LD50 (SC newborn
mice) of 0.16 mg/kg. Robustoxin alone causes a typical
syndrome of envenomation in primates and man of whole male
Atrax robustus venom. (Sheumack et al 1983, 1984, 1985)

Versutoxin (from male and female Hadronyche versuta venom.)

Structurally very close to robustoxin, a protein neurotoxin,
MW 4852, 42 residues, highly basic, pI >9, 4 disulphide
bridges. 8 residues different to robustoxin, and considered
conservative changes. LD50 (SC newborn mice) 0.22 mg/kg.
Versutoxin alone causes almost typical syndrome of
envenomation in primates and man of whole male Atrax
robustus venom, the difference being the sustained
hypotension typical of robustoxin, which is not seen with
either versutoxin or whole Hadronyche versuta venom. Strong
antigenic cross-reaction between robustoxin and versutoxin.
(Sheumack et al, 1984)

Venoms of important related species

Hadronyche formidabilis - Venom reported as approximately
equal in toxicity (both male and female) as male Atrax
robustus venom, has caused similar cases of envenomation in
man (no definite fatalities), and therefore probably
contains a robustoxin-like component. (Sutherland 1983)

Hadronyche infensa - Venom reported as approximately equal
or greater in toxicity (females and males) as male Atrax
robustus venom, and therefore may contain a robustoxin-like
component. (Sutherland 1983)

Cheers,
Steve

 

[Dean W]

My sources were the 2003 edition of the guiness book of world records, under the record for the worlds most venoumous spider.

 

[Steve Nunn]

Originally posted by Dean W
My sources were the 2003 edition of the guiness book of world records, under the record for the worlds most venoumous spider.

Hi Dean,
The book is wrong. I have a copy of the 2002 edition and it's flawed too. If you have a look a the LD50 for A.robustus you'll see it's about twice as stong as Phoneutria. Hadronyche infensa is stronger, but LD50 testing was banned here before they found this out.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[conipto]

Hey Steve..

You might (or might not ) be surprised at how many books here (none of them at all scientific) brand P. fera as the most dangerous and most venomous spider in the world. I have two in my possession that are 'educational spider books' I bought for my daughter, that list it as such.

Bill

 

[Dean W]

oh really? hmm, i'll have to look into it then. i just assumed that they would know. i usually cross refference info from the net, with literature, because the net is the bathroom wall of society. Anyone can post anything, fact or fiction. But i assumed the guiness book would be reliable. Ok then, i retract my previous statement.

 

[Steve Nunn]

Originally posted by Dean W
oh really? hmm, i'll have to look into it then. i

That's cool Dean and I understand what you're saying about the net. Good luck looking into it.

Steve

 

[AllenG]

hey steve...would this photographer be u?

http://hem.spray.se/minax/galleri/galleri_sdjur_e.html


i did a search on the two spiders in question and came to a page with pictures taken by none other then steve nunn....hehehe u own both species?


u were mentioning you would trade a dry specimen for some species...what kinda trade would it require to get one stuffed? i.e. specimens and money

 

[Wade]

I wonder if they're basing the listing on number of deaths supposedly attributed to it and not the drop-for-drop venom potency. I don't have any numbers to support that thought, just an idea.

Not that I'd believe those statistics either, the way things get blown out of proportion whenever so-called "deadly" arachnids are concerned.

Wade

 

[Crotalus]

Originally posted by AllenG
hey steve...would this photographer be u?

http://hem.spray.se/minax/galleri/galleri_sdjur_e.html


i did a search on the two spiders in question and came to a page with pictures taken by none other then steve nunn....hehehe u own both species?


u were mentioning you would trade a dry specimen for some species...what kinda trade would it require to get one stuffed? i.e. specimens and money

The Hadronyche is Steve´s - the Atrax was mine (and its my webpage)

/Lelle

 

[Crotalus]

Originally posted by conipto
Hey Steve..

You might (or might not ) be surprised at how many books here (none of them at all scientific) brand P. fera as the most dangerous and most venomous spider in the world. I have two in my possession that are 'educational spider books' I bought for my daughter, that list it as such.

Bill

And the Phoneutria bites in Brazil are probably mistaken ID, fera do not occur in the Sao Paulo or Rio region , its an amazon species. The species that probably are mistaken for fera is Phoneutria nigriventer. The toxicity of the two are very similar.

The venom is one thing, which spider venom are the most potent. But the number of individuals in a heavy populated area and size, amount of venom delivered in a bite along with speed agility and aggressive nature should be considered. As Steve writes, Hadronyche are truly the most venomous spider but Phoneutria could very well be the most dangerous one.

Compare with venomous snakes, the snake a-bomb is Oxyuranus microlepidotus (I think i got that right) but no death have been claimed cos the snakes lives far from humans. While for ex Vipera russelli and Echis sp. kills alot of humans each year, due to toxicity, aggressive nature, and live close to humans and are common.

/Lelle

 

[Randolph XX()]

any one heard about Macrothele gigas from Taiwan which can reach 15 cm lag span average also very dangerous

 

[Malhavoc's]

once again I must ask, why not just catch one and mail it in a box with no return address?

 

[Steve Nunn]

once again I must ask, why not just catch one and mail it in a box with no return address?

So you'd risk the lives of the postal workers and baggage handlers, for the sake of a pet in your collection (even if there's a low chance of that happening, but you can't guarantee it couldn't happen could you)? I mean they wouldn't have easy access to antivenine would they. I'd think the receiving address may be held fully accountable for any accidents, should they occur. Then again you could think the risk is worth it, as big a risk as it is.

Each to their own, it's not for me though.

Steve

 

[ssandgirls]

once again I must ask, why not just catch one and mail it in a box with no return address

Aside from what Steve said, It would also be impossible as you cannot send anything International without producing ID at the PO and being fully verified for customs forms etc.. ID is actually recorded in the computer when the parcel is processed at the PO counter. Its impossible for anything to leave the country without return address or without the ability of being traced,

SS

 

[snakey_dave]

Hadronyche infensa vs Phoneutria sp.

Hi,

The debate concerning the status of Phoneutria fera as the most venomous spider is one based on misinterpretation.
What the Guiness Book of Records actually says is the most active neurotoxin isolated from spider venom is found in Phoneutria fera. This isn't to say it's the most venomous spider. Venom as you know is a compound of chemicals, and the whole venom of H. infensa is, up to now, the most powerful, but as far as individual components are concerned, one of the chemicals present in P. fera venom (if memory serves it's the toxin designated PhTx-1) is the fastest acting upon its target receptors.
This situation is mirrored in the snake kingdom too. The most active ophidian neurotoxin being textilotoxin, isolated from the venom of the Eastern Brown snake, Pseudonaja textilis, however the most potent venom belongs to the Inland Taipan, Oxyuranus microlepidotus, which incidentally has the second most active ophidian neurotoxin, Taipoxin. The power of the venom as a whole is due mainly to an abundance of Hyaluronidase, which breaks down hyaluronic acid bonds and reduces cellular stabillity, allowing the neurotoxins to spread very rapidly.

All the best

Dave

 

[Malhavoc's]

Aside from what Steve said, It would also be impossible as you cannot send anything International without producing ID at the PO and being fully verified for customs forms etc.. ID is actually recorded in the computer when the parcel is processed at the PO counter. Its impossible for anything to leave the country without return address or without the ability of being traced,

SS

Thanks for the Info, I've never shipepd internotionaly yet and was wondering why it was so hard for spiders to get accross the boards, Thanks to you to steve