Should I be happy or annoyed with seller?

[Valethea]

I'm going to preface this post with additional details - just in case someone asks!

This beaut is my new Pseudoclamoris Gigas - it arrived safe and amazingly calm in the post today.

• Yes, I know the enclosure is too small and will be changed this evening once I've bought a larger one...please see explanation below.
  
• Yes there is a water dish in the enclosure.
• It's very wet because it was a first housing, and I'd misted.
  
• Yes, there is cork bark in there - it's behind the fake leaves.
• There is an organic fibre plant pot in there as a starter hide/burrow. I've found some of my Arboreal slings use these to burrow/build web curtains/turrets etc. My P. Irminia's slings love them.
  
• There are ventilation holes all around this container and in the lid.
• That tissue is packaging from posting...I wasn't risking a jailbreak so I put it in the enclosure and it ventured out within a few minutes.
• Edited to add: I've put loads of substrate in, just in case the 'sling' wanted to burrow.

So my spidey has loads of options, and the plan was my new sling would be in here until Juvenile stage. (Yes this enclosure is definitely too big for a sling, but I wanted a LOT of wiggle room with these spoods being super fast.) Then I'd planned to rehouse into its adult enclosure because these guys are fast.
As you can see though, this 12cm beaut is far from a sling.

I purchased what was supposed to be a 4-5cm sling from the seller (I've bought 5 slings from him in the past, all alive and packaged well, molting regularly and doing awesome) but this biggie arrived today.
So should I be annoyed, or delighted? I mean, if it's female then it's definitely something to be happy about - but I can't imagine a seller sending me a 12cm unsexed spider...so I'm kinda assuming this T is male. Which means a mature male within a relatively short space of time

I contacted the seller who's claiming its unsexed (I highly doubt that!!), and he said 'you're lucky, I only had 2 left and it's so much bigger than advertised.'

Any advice welcome! I'm kinda pissed the seller may have sabotaged what could have been a good long-term buyer/seller relationship - if this situation is in fact what I think...a male bundled off as a 'half gift'.

Thanks guys, and of course, feel free to offer advice on set-up. And before anyone eats me alive, I've explained a lot above! Thanks so much!!!!

 

[baconwrappedpikachu]

If you've had good interactions with the seller in the past, I would personally try not to jump to conclusions that you got sent a male. I don't think it's out of the question to ask the seller to give you a heads up if they are sending something notably bigger than what you were expecting. You can politely let them know that you didn't have a suitable enclosure ready because you were expecting something a lot smaller. But I wouldn't worry too much about anything else. Like I said if you've had nothing but positive experiences in the past, I would say you should at least give the seller the benefit of the doubt this time too. If I were in the seller's shoes I definitely would have communicated with you about the larger juvie at least to let you know that was all I had left. But as a buyer, I don't see it as a huge deal or worth getting upset over.

 

[Valethea]

If you've had good interactions with the seller in the past, I would personally try not to jump to conclusions that you got sent a male. I don't think it's out of the question to ask the seller to give you a heads up if they are sending something notably bigger than what you were expecting. You can politely let them know that you didn't have a suitable enclosure ready because you were expecting something a lot smaller. But I wouldn't worry too much about anything else. Like I said if you've had nothing but positive experiences in the past, I would say you should at least give the seller the benefit of the doubt this time too. If I were in the seller's shoes I definitely would have communicated with you about the larger juvie at least to let you know that was all I had left. But as a buyer, I don't see it as a huge deal or worth getting upset over.

I appreciate the response - thanks for your advice and opinion

 

[Patherophis]

Maybe stupid question, but seeing measurements in cm, are You 100% sure seller didnt mean body lenght? 4-5 cm body lenght would perfectly match 12 cm legspan.

 

[Valethea]

Maybe stupid question, but seeing measurements in cm, are You 100% sure seller didnt mean body lenght? 4-5 cm body lenght would perfectly match 12 cm legspan.

Not a stupid question by any means! Makes sense but it's definitely legspan. I ordered two slings at the same time and they were both advertised 4-5cm (same thing with my last shipment of babies too) and the C. Cyaneopubescens I ordered is exactly 4cm legspan, but this fella is actually more like 13cm (I checked again as my goodness, it's huge!). The seller also agreed it was much bigger than advertised.

I'm really happy now. I've been watching this new 'baby' all day and it's stunning. I'm happy either way now I've thought about it, and love all my T's - the males of this species just aren't long lived so it'll be a shame if it is - but no biggie. I can't wait to see this awesome beast hunt...right after a nerve wracking rehouse

 

[The Grym Reaper]

Females max out at like 12.5cm - 15cm DLS if I remember correctly so I'd guess that males would hook out at around 10cm give or take.

If you can get a good ventral shot then post it in the sexing gallery linked below.

http://arachnoboards.com/gallery/categories/epiandrous-fusillae-sexing-not-molts.9/

 

[Valethea]

Females max out at like 12.5cm - 15cm DLS if I remember correctly so I'd guess that males would hook out at around 10cm give or take.

If you can get a good ventral shot then post it in the sexing gallery linked below.

http://arachnoboards.com/gallery/categories/epiandrous-fusillae-sexing-not-molts.9/

Awesome, I'm re-homing her in the morning so I'll do my best to get a decent ventral shot in a less milky enclosure.
Brilliant practical advice. I really appreciate everyone's take on this.
Thanks!

 

[Theneil]

I would be annoyed. Not because i mind the bigger spider, but becuase there wasn’t communication that they changed the order and didn’t ask ifnit was okay. What if you had been trying to get a young male for an immature female? Or what if you were trying to document the life of a sling, or whatever. i don’t mind a bit or error, but that is HUGE.

aside: There are a lot of unsexed Juveniles out there. Even when people have a small number of spiders and REALLY want to know the sex, they aren't always able to determine it, so expecting a dealer, or breeder to have sexed every single one they have is a bit ridiculous to me. Also, It can be genuinely unsexed and still end up male. A lot of people seem to think that an unsexed juvenile that ends up male is a scam, but if it is unsexed, its got about a 50% chance foe wither sex.

Rant over. Enjoy your spider. I regret selling all the slings i got at the beginning of the year. Hopefully out of the new lot i am getting i will get to keep a few.

 

[Valethea]

I would be annoyed. Not because i mind the bigger spider, but becuase there wasn’t communication that they changed the order and didn’t ask ifnit was okay. What if you had been trying to get a young male for an immature female? Or what if you were trying to document the life of a sling, or whatever. i don’t mind a bit or error, but that is HUGE.

aside: There are a lot of unsexed Juveniles out there. Even when people have a small number of spiders and REALLY want to know the sex, they aren't always able to determine it, so expecting a dealer, or breeder to have sexed every single one they have is a bit ridiculous to me. Also, It can be genuinely unsexed and still end up male. A lot of people seem to think that an unsexed juvenile that ends up male is a scam, but if it is unsexed, its got about a 50% chance foe wither sex.

Rant over. Enjoy your spider. I regret selling all the slings i got at the beginning of the year. Hopefully out of the new lot i am getting i will get to keep a few.

Thanks for this. Yep you're right in what you've said - I'm a relatively new hobbyist looking to 'grow' with my spiders. Get to know their personalities and species traits. I suppose that's why I also asked this question...I wouldn't be versed in general etiquette when it comes to T sales and purchases.

I definitely didn't say that I expect a breeder to have sexed every spider they send out - I did find it worthy of questioning why I was sent something I didn't order. I felt it was reasonable to question the motives of sending a large juvenile for the price of a sling when he mentioned he only had 2 of this particular T. Definitely wasn't my intention to come across as expecting breeders and dealers to have sexed every spider. He's been great to work with, super nice and always there for advice, great packaging, always sends free feeders and a freebie etc and I'll happily be wrong and eat my hat if it's a female! And as you said he could be 100% even if it's a male, and that's the luck of the draw.

The great news is my lovely P Gigas is now in its new and more appropriately sized home and already webbing - it also ate a cricket earlier today. Feisty thing...It was amazing to rehouse it and see how fast it can actually be! There was no way I was letting this one just walk into its new enclosure. I built the deli cup set-up with cardboard for an escape proof method just in case.
Thank you for your reply! I appreciate your take on this, and if I do buy from this breeder again I'll be making sure he knows my order isn't negotiable unless he speaks to me first. Good luck with your slings!!

 

[Theneil]

Thanks for this. Yep you're right in what you've said - I'm a relatively new hobbyist looking to 'grow' with my spiders. Get to know their personalities and species traits. I suppose that's why I also asked this question...I wouldn't be versed in general etiquette when it comes to T sales and purchases.

I definitely didn't say that I expect a breeder to have sexed every spider they send out - I did find it worthy of questioning why I was sent something I didn't order. I felt it was reasonable to question the motives of sending a large juvenile for the price of a sling when he mentioned he only had 2 of this particular T. Definitely wasn't my intention to come across as expecting breeders and dealers to have sexed every spider. He's been great to work with, super nice and always there for advice, great packaging, always sends free feeders and a freebie etc and I'll happily be wrong and eat my hat if it's a female! And as you said he could be 100% even if it's a male, and that's the luck of the draw.

The great news is my lovely P Gigas is now in its new and more appropriately sized home and already webbing - it also ate a cricket earlier today. Feisty thing...It was amazing to rehouse it and see how fast it can actually be! There was no way I was letting this one just walk into its new enclosure. I built the deli cup set-up with cardboard for an escape proof method just in case.
Thank you for your reply! I appreciate your take on this, and if I do buy from this breeder again I'll be making sure he knows my order isn't negotiable unless he speaks to me first. Good luck with your slings!!

I hope my rant didn’t come off as directed exclusively at you. It offen comes up that “all sexed juveniles are just unwanted males” and my rant about that was triggered by but not exactly directed at you. LOL

 

[Valethea]

I hope my rant didn’t come off as directed exclusively at you. It offen comes up that “all sexed juveniles are just unwanted males” and my rant about that was triggered by but not exactly directed at you. LOL

Nope it didn't!! Haha I get it totally. Thanks for the help

 

[sasker]

but becuase there wasn’t communication that they changed the order and didn’t ask ifnit was okay.

I agree, I would be a bit bummed to get an unsexed sub-adult instead of an unsexed sling of a fast growing species. Part of the fun of keeping tarantulas is to see them grow and molt, showing different colours every time and be amazed about how fast they grow. The only time i I buy juvies is if I want confirmed females.

Definitely wasn't my intention to come across as expecting breeders and dealers to have sexed every spider.

I have not bred tarantulas yet, but I don't think it is that difficult for a breeder to sex every tarantula past a certain size. If you are a breeder who makes his/her living of selling spiders, I would expect that not taking the time to have a look at the sex of your merchandise would be like throwing away money as you could get much more for a sexed female than an unsexed sling. I see often in the stock lists of vendors that they sell both unsexed slings and sexed species of the same species for a higher price. I can only assume that these are all sack mates - some big enough to be sexed, some still unsexed slings.

Besides, this seller said he had only two P. gigas. Seems a bit odd that they could grow this big without ever leaving a molt in a good enough state to be sexed.

He's been great to work with, super nice and always there for advice, great packaging, always sends free feeders and a freebie etc

In that case I would not be too angry about receiving a bigger than expected tarantula. If the seller seemed unreliable and if you had problems in the past it would be a different story.

 

[Vanessa]

I would be annoyed. Not because i mind the bigger spider, but becuase there wasn’t communication that they changed the order and didn’t ask ifnit was okay. What if you had been trying to get a young male for an immature female? Or what if you were trying to document the life of a sling, or whatever. i don’t mind a bit or error, but that is HUGE.

Being someone who has been in the situation of getting a spiderling specifically in the hopes to get a male to later pair with a juvenile/sub-adult female, this would absolutely annoy me. The dealer has no right to just assume and send you whatever they want without checking. Yes, for many people it would be a bonus if it ends up female, but not everyone is looking for that outcome.

 

[Valethea]

I agree, I would be a bit bummed to get an unsexed sub-adult instead of an unsexed sling of a fast growing species. Part of the fun of keeping tarantulas is to see them grow and molt, showing different colours every time and be amazed about how fast they grow. The only time i I buy juvies is if I want confirmed females.



I have not bred tarantulas yet, but I don't think it is that difficult for a breeder to sex every tarantula past a certain size. If you are a breeder who makes his/her living of selling spiders, I would expect that not taking the time to have a look at the sex of your merchandise would be like throwing away money as you could get much more for a sexed female than an unsexed sling. I see often in the stock lists of vendors that they sell both unsexed slings and sexed species of the same species for a higher price. I can only assume that these are all sack mates - some big enough to be sexed, some still unsexed slings.

Besides, this seller said he had only two P. gigas. Seems a bit odd that they could grow this big without ever leaving a molt in a good enough state to be sexed.



In that case I would not be too angry about receiving a bigger than expected tarantula. If the seller seemed unreliable and if you had problems in the past it would be a different story.

You've nicely written a lot of my thoughts - yea, indeed! I'm hoping for a female because my collecting, at the moment anyway, is one for keeping for many years. My plan is to have half of my sitting room lined with gorgeous display cases filled with mostly longer lived females

Wishful thinking that all my slings will be female, but at least there's a chance. Where as if I'm sent what I think is a male (I'm still trying to get a good ventral shot while I wait for its next molt) it kinda goes against this plan. Although I may breed in a few years.

Thanks for your input, really appreciate it!

Being someone who has been in the situation of getting a spiderling specifically in the hopes to get a male to later pair with a juvenile/sub-adult female, this would absolutely annoy me. The dealer has no right to just assume and send you whatever they want without checking. Yes, for many people it would be a bonus if it ends up female, but not everyone is looking for that outcome.

A male definitely wouldn't bother me if this species wasn't so fast growing. But yea, you're right 100%. It was sent completely out of the blue. It's a lesson learned anyway.

I'm in Ireland so I may switch my purchasing to an online store in the UK.
Thanks for your reply!

 

[sasker]

I'm in Ireland so I may switch my purchasing to an online store in the UK.

Do so while you can, with Brexit coming up and all

 

[Valethea]

Do so while you can, with Brexit coming up and all

Haha oh crap yea, all the more reason to put in a big order!!

 

[Valethea]

I don't know if anyone is watching this anymore - I felt it appropriate to update here rather than start a new thread.

Well my lovely gigas HOOKED out today - a successful molt into a mature male. He's frikkin huge. He's much bigger than I expected.

I'm bummed. Not because he's male but because he may not be with me long now by the nature of being male.
But on the bright side I'll start looking for a lady friend for him - and maybe I'll have some fluffy orange babies soon.

I'm thinking of messaging the seller. I bought this guy under the pretence he was a 4-5cm sling. He was the complete opposite. I do think the seller 'off-loaded' a spood he believed was maturing soon because I'm a newish keeper.

Oh well, lesson learned. Won't buy from him again!
Thanks all for your support and input back when I started this thread.

 

[Vanessa]

I'm thinking of messaging the seller. I bought this guy under the pretence he was a 4-5cm sling. He was the complete opposite. I do think the seller 'off-loaded' a spood he believed was maturing soon because I'm a newish keeper.

Yes, it does sound that way and you wouldn't be the first person. I don't think you will get much satisfaction from messaging them, to be honest. They've already convinced themselves that they didn't do anything wrong.
Hopefully you can find him a girlfriend.

 

[Valethea]

Yea you're likely right Vanessa. Thanks for the reply!
It'll be a lovely thing if I do find him a girlfriend. Here's hoping

 

[Hannahs Herps]

Man that kind of sucks. I would say there isn't any harm in messaging them, but nothing may come of it.

As somebody who is relatively new in the hobby and also trying to collect as many females as possible, I would be upset that this guy sold you a male that matured in less than 2 months, when you were expecting a sling.