She's Learning...

PhilMcWonder

Arachnoknight
Joined
Oct 29, 2018
Messages
187
My Avic has taken to the habit of waiting on her branch for food.
On feeding days she is out and sitting there. She retreats into her hide when I open her cage BUT I noticed she turns around most of the time, Like she knows prey is coming.

Have you all noticed behavior like this with your Ts?
 

Ungoliant

Malleus Aranearum
Staff member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
4,096
My Avic has taken to the habit of waiting on her branch for food.
On feeding days she is out and sitting there. She retreats into her hide when I open her cage BUT I noticed she turns around most of the time, Like she knows prey is coming.

Have you all noticed behavior like this with your Ts?
I don't think they have the hardware to anticipate "feeding day," even if you have a very regular feeding schedule. However, they probably have favorite hunting perches, and they may get used to you working around the enclosure, so that they don't go far when you open it.

My Avic often waits on her porch. If I open the cage, she normally retreats but stays near the entrance.

 

PhilMcWonder

Arachnoknight
Joined
Oct 29, 2018
Messages
187
Well i'm not sure they have an internal clock per say, but the timing is impeccable.
 

draconisj4

Arachnobaron
Joined
Apr 11, 2017
Messages
455
I have 2 arboreals in inverted enclosures an I. hirsutum and a C. versicolor. I turn the tops upside down to drop prey in their webs. They don't react when I pick up their enclosures but as soon as I take off the tops both of them will move to the edge of their tube webs and get into hunting position if they are hungry. When I first got them both would retreat when the top moved, after a few feedings now they seem to know that food is coming when that movement happens.
 

lostbrane

Arachnobaron
Joined
Jul 8, 2018
Messages
517
I've only had one somewhat related experience, when my P. vittata dumped a bolus out of it's hide when I was doing spot maintenance. However it was just the one time and that's been the only thing.
 

viper69

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
17,851
My Avic has taken to the habit of waiting on her branch for food.
On feeding days she is out and sitting there. She retreats into her hide when I open her cage BUT I noticed she turns around most of the time, Like she knows prey is coming.

Have you all noticed behavior like this with your Ts?

Coincidence- they don't know food is coming from outside their container, they don't have ESP powers, and neither do we.

I don't think they have the hardware to anticipate "feeding day,"
My Ts are constantly putting in food requests by Outlook, it's all very coordinated. :D
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Teal

Arachnoemperor
Old Timer
Joined
Jan 11, 2009
Messages
4,096
My adult female P. metallica and adult female P. cancerides definitely react to feeding time! When we get out the roaches and start feeding Ts, inevitably...

My P. met, Potato, comes to the door of her enclosure and waits for a roach.

My P. cancerides, Bonjour, comes to whatever side of her enclosure we are closest to and puts her feet up against the side.
 

weibkreux

Arachnoknight
Joined
Feb 26, 2018
Messages
232
Its just their normal feeding response. Small vibrations might mean there is a prey in vicinity.
 

PhilMcWonder

Arachnoknight
Joined
Oct 29, 2018
Messages
187
Its just their normal feeding response. Small vibrations might mean there is a prey in vicinity.
Well thats kind of my point. I think she knows when the cage is being opened and what that means VS the cage just being jostled a little because I bumped it or something.
I also think she knows if she waits in a certain spot, prey will eventually crawl through that area.
 

CJJon

Arachnokrólewicz
Joined
Oct 28, 2018
Messages
601
Well thats kind of my point. I think she knows when the cage is being opened and what that means VS the cage just being jostled a little because I bumped it or something.
I also think she knows if she waits in a certain spot, prey will eventually crawl through that area.
Yes, of course it seems to be a sort of conditioned response, but the T doesn't really know why it's doing what it is doing. It doesn't really think about it.
 

weibkreux

Arachnoknight
Joined
Feb 26, 2018
Messages
232
They're just acting upon instinct and not based on their judgement. There is a difference.
 

boina

Lady of the mites
Active Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Messages
2,217
Oh god, I need to write about tarantulas and learning, I'm going to start today.

That response the OP decribed is squarely within the learning abilites af any invert and why ever would a tarantula be different. There are books and books about learning in inverts. @weibkreux - they DO NOT only react upon instinct. Why does science always get ignored if it doesn't fit with peoples preconceived notions?

And @CJJon - this is my area of expertise. I've a Masters degree in animal behaviour. I even posted a copy on these boards somewhere. Don't tell me I anthropomorphize if I'm citing science you don't want to be true.

And here's the scientific proof for learning in tarantulas:
britishspiders.org.uk/bulletin/120401.pdf
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0300962988910584


and @CJJon , especially for you since we discussed emotion in inverts lately: http://jeb.biologists.org/content/220/21/3856 - A scientific, peer reviewed review that clearly states inverts seem to feel something like emotions, published in a very reputable journal.
 
Last edited:

Venom1080

Arachnoemperor
Joined
Sep 24, 2015
Messages
4,611
Oh god, I need to write about tarantulas and learning, I'm going to start today.

That response the OP decribed is squarely within the learning abilites af any invert and why ever would a tarantula be different. There are books and books about learning in inverts. @weibkreux - they DO NOT only react upon instinct. Why does science always get ignored if it doesn't fit with peoples preconceived notions?

And @CJJon - this is my area of expertise. I've a Masters degree in animal behaviour. I even posted a copy on these boards somewhere. Don't tell me I anthropomorphize if I'm citing science you don't want to be true.

And here's the scientific proof for learning in tarantulas:
britishspiders.org.uk/bulletin/120401.pdf
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0300962988910584


and @CJJon , especially for you since we discussed emotion in inverts lately: http://jeb.biologists.org/content/220/21/3856 - A scientific, peer reviewed review that clearly states inverts seem to feel something like emotions, published in a very reputable journal.
What do you think the limits are, then? if a species can learn to navigate a maze with decent accuracy, why wouldnt it be able to recognize a keeper with time and numerous tries? are males more intelligent than the females? are different genera more intelligent than others based on their lifestyles?
 

boina

Lady of the mites
Active Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Messages
2,217
What do you think the limits are, then? if a species can learn to navigate a maze with decent accuracy, why wouldnt it be able to recognize a keeper with time and numerous tries? are males more intelligent than the females? are different genera more intelligent than others based on their lifestyles?
Ok, we are getting squarely into the realm of speculation here:

1. Would a spider be able to recognize a keeper? That kind of depends on what you want recognized. A spider can certainly come to recognize a hand if it comes into contact with it over and over, or a certain type of foot steps and stuff like that. To recognize a person it would need to do two things and I'm not even entirely sure mice can do the first:
a. It would need to realize that all those different things - hands, foot steps, smell, breath, a face, etc. make up one person - and exactly one person.
b. It would need a concept of a person, i.e. a being that is neither a predator or a prey or a sex partner or just part of some moving scenery.

I don't think a tarantula can do that, but that doesn't mean I have proof they can't do it.

2. I have no clue if males are more intelligent but I can imagine that they have better spatial intelligence since they move around a lot and need to know where they are.

3. You think of arboreals possibly being more intelligent? Again, I can imagine they have better spatial intelligence, but that doesn't necessarily translate to better general inteligence. Could be, though.
 

Venom1080

Arachnoemperor
Joined
Sep 24, 2015
Messages
4,611
Ok, we are getting squarely into the realm of speculation here:

1. Would a spider be able to recognize a keeper? That kind of depends on what you want recognized. A spider can certainly come to recognize a hand if it comes into contact with it over and over, or a certain type of foot steps and stuff like that. To recognize a person it would need to do two things and I'm not even entirely sure mice can do the first:
a. It would need to realize that all those different things - hands, foot steps, smell, breath, a face, etc. make up one person - and exactly one person.
b. It would need a concept of a person, i.e. a being that is neither a predator or a prey or a sex partner or just part of some moving scenery.

I don't think a tarantula can do that, but that doesn't mean I have proof they can't do it.

2. I have no clue if males are more intelligent but I can imagine that they have better spatial intelligence since they move around a lot and need to know where they are.

3. You think of arboreals possibly being more intelligent? Again, I can imagine they have better spatial intelligence, but that doesn't necessarily translate to better general inteligence. Could be, though.
interesting, so everyone here has been wrong when they tell a beginner to stop handling as their pet will never recognize them enough to not be stressed out by the event?


i think it would make more sense for arboreal genera to be the most intelligent as they have to take more things into consideration over finding a hole and never leaving.
 

boina

Lady of the mites
Active Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Messages
2,217
interesting, so everyone here has been wrong when they tell a beginner to stop handling as their pet will never recognize them enough to not be stressed out by the event?
From all we know I'm pretty sure a tarantula will recognize certain things associated with handling, like a specific hand, a place it has been to before, etc. You have no way to account for other things that may spook your tarantula, though, be it as little as a draft of air.

I'm pretty sure my tarantulas recognize me - not as a person but as something that's safe and always around, a safe part of the environment, if you want.
 

PhilMcWonder

Arachnoknight
Joined
Oct 29, 2018
Messages
187
I'm pretty sure my tarantulas recognize me - not as a person but as something that's safe and always around, a safe part of the environment, if you want.
Or at the very least it has stopped associating you as a threat. Wasps do the same thing.
 

Rigor Mortis

Arachnobaron
Joined
Nov 7, 2018
Messages
498
To throw my experience in (and probably annoy someone by insisting that tarantulas can in fact figure these things out) I feed my A. chalcodes on Fridays and she becomes increasingly agitated on Wednesdays and Thursdays. (Stress posing whereas the other days of the week she's tucked up in her hide like normal.) Sheer coincidence? Maybe. But it's pretty interesting!
 

Teal

Arachnoemperor
Old Timer
Joined
Jan 11, 2009
Messages
4,096
I think tarantulas can certainly become familiar with hands as a surface if handled consistently, just like they become familiar with different textures in their enclosure (wood, sub, rocks, fake foliage, etc).

I have several tarantulas who clearly recognize when we have begun feeding the collection and react - one female moves to the door of her enclosure (which is exactly opposite of her usual occupied space)... one female becomes agitated, moving around her enclosure to match the side we are on and putting her legs on the sides.
 
Top