Scorp Vs Mouse

[ScorpDude]

I've only read the first page, bgut to be honest I can see where its going.

Heres my view on the subject.

You say this would occur in the wild? So a mouse would get stuck in an enclosed space with an emperor scorpion? No it wouldn't. In nature, the mouse would of had a chance, it would of either fought its way out or legged it (30mins would of supplied it with plenty of oppertunities) but it was in a controlled space. Also, if the emperor had seen a mouse in the wild its highly unlikey it would of willingly attacked it as a source of food, it would of waited for an easier prey item. Another thing, theres you playing god, this makes the scenario so un natural, in nature the mouse could of fought back. Hand on heart, if the mouse started biting the scorp, would of or intervined? no you wouldn't. You say mice are over populated anyway, so one gone wouldn't hurt would it? There are 6billion humans on this world, go feed one to a scorp, preferably you.

Thats just what I think on he subject, I don't let it wind me up any more as I'm de-sensitized to the american disregard for cruelty.

One more thing, inverts don't feel pain, mice do.

 

[Empi]

I can't say I don't know what you guys are saying, I understand your point. As an animal lover I feel bad for the little mouse and I'm not going to say I dont. I'm man enpugh to admit that. I also feel bad for the baby zebra or impala thats the lions take down on tv and start to rip apart before it is dead. I think if we didn't feel bad there would be something very wrong with that. I feel bad when when I step on a bug. But I also feel bad for captive animals that don't get to do what they are made to do. I feel that it would be taking there purpose in live away from them. I'm also not trying to say that a scorpion would eat mice all the time in the wild either. But I don't see how feeding a live mouse once in a while would or could be wrong. The mouse is on the food chain and a scorpion that is big enough is higher up. Besides I don't see how a cricket is any less important than the mouse. One of you said they can't feel pain. How can you say that, how do you know? Have you been a cricket? Can you prove that? Every other animal on earth seems to be able to feel pain. A creature that cannot feel pain would not survive. They would be running into fire or crushing themselves trying to hide. Where is the deturant? There are people who cant feel pain and they injure themselves all the time cuz there is nothing telling them somthings wrong. I can't say that a cricket can't feel cuz I've never been one, but it does not seem very logical to think that they wouldn't.

 

[nightbreed]

no.. "we" are not in the wild.. but the reason we have enclosures for scorps is to simulate their natural habitat.. to simulate the wild.. is it not? and anything that brings them a little peice of home i'm all for it.. my emps are the only scorps i feed mice to.. and if we are going to create a mini habitat simulating the wild, we should keep it as close to home as we can.. i caught a v. carolinianus a couple years ago eating a 5 line skink almost 6 times the size of himself.. im almost positive that was a slow death, i cant say that it was or wasnt.. as i wasnt there for the whole ordeal, but i can almost assure you that it was slow and painful for the lizard, and dangerous/risky for the tiny v. carolinianus.. but ya know what? it happened.. it happens all the time, every day, all over the world..i dont do it for amusement.. its interesting to see yes, the power of a scorpion of that size.. which rarely ever shows any force whatsoever, doing what nature intended.. kill or be killed.. survival of the fittest.. and the mouse loses every time..

civilized, yes.. my scorpions are hunters, i am a hunter, i kill my own food.. and so do my emps, and all my other inverts.. unless they are incapable.. which clearly they arent, they can fend for themselves when it comes to chow time

How do you know he wasnt scavanging from the carcass of a 5 lined skink that he stumbled across?

You have taken the survival of the fittest part out of the equation, the mouses best form of defence is evasion he doesnt have much chance of that when he's bundled into a small enclosure with a predator, this is not nature it is a flawed attempt at emulating it but its not even close, like I said in my last post if you want some nature chuck in the occasional predator to go after your scorp, or doesnt survival of the fittest extend that far?

If your scorp got sick and you could help it and cure its malady would you? if the answer is yes where is survival of the fittest there? there are many variables in nature and you cant hope to cover even a small % of them, yet you continue to persist in this one, the one that gives you entertainment and enjoyment, sorry I dont buy it

 

[ScorpDude]

How do you know he wasnt scavanging from the carcass of a 5 lined skink that he stumbled across?

You have taken the survival of the fittest part out of the equation, the mouses best form of defence is evasion he doesnt have much chance of that when he's bundled into a small enclosure with a predator, this is not nature it is a flawed attempt at emulating it but its not even close, like I said in my last post if you want some nature chuck in the occasional predator to go after your scorp, or doesnt survival of the fittest extend that far?

If your scorp got sick and you could help it and cure its malady would you? if the answer is yes where is survival of the fittest there? there are many variables in nature and you cant hope to cover even a small % of them, yet you continue to persist in this one, the one that gives you entertainment and enjoyment, sorry I dont buy it

I agree 100% with everything mentioned there.

and empi, we know inverts don't feel pain because they don't have the specilised cells adapted to pick it up. Not sure if they have other nerve cells to pick up dertain things, but they can't pick up pain.

 

[nightbreed]

I can't say I don't know what you guys are saying, I understand your point. As an animal lover I feel bad for the little mouse and I'm not going to say I dont. I'm man enpugh to admit that. I also feel bad for the baby zebra or impala thats the lions take down on tv and start to rip apart before it is dead. I think if we didn't feel bad there would be something very wrong with that. I feel bad when when I step on a bug. But I also feel bad for captive animals that don't get to do what they are made to do. I feel that it would be taking there purpose in live away from them. I'm also not trying to say that a scorpion would eat mice all the time in the wild either. But I don't see how feeding a live mouse once in a while would or could be wrong. The mouse is on the food chain and a scorpion that is big enough is higher up. Besides I don't see how a cricket is any less important than the mouse. One of you said they can't feel pain. How can you say that, how do you know? Have you been a cricket? Can you prove that? Every other animal on earth seems to be able to feel pain. A creature that cannot feel pain would not survive. They would be running into fire or crushing themselves trying to hide. Where is the deturant? There are people who cant feel pain and they injure themselves all the time cuz there is nothing telling them somthings wrong. I can't say that a cricket can't feel cuz I've never been one, but it does not seem very logical to think that they wouldn't.

Inverts dont feel pain in the same way verts do they dont have the ganglion for it they can sense negative stimula and try to avoid it, but pain? no
There is a very good thread on it here pay attention to Code Monkeys posts.

Ask your self this do lions get fed live impala at the zoo? no, and lets face it a large complicated mammal like a lion is far more likely to miss hunting than a primative scorp, do they thrive and survive? hell yeah

 

[carpe scorpio]

I think the name of the one who started this thread will soon be the sound effect of it's demise. Can you say "polarized"?. :wall:

 

[Empi]

If the mouse attaked my scorp I would let it win. I would then have a pet mouse. I certainly would not take it out just cuz it's winning the fight for it's survival. If I ever saw a scorp big enough to eat a person I would expect it to do so. I would feel bad for it though cuz it seems like any time an animal eats a person it is swiftly killed.

 

[Empi]

Ask your self this do lions get fed live impala at the zoo? no, and lets face it a large complicated mammal like a lion is far more likely to miss hunting than a primative scorp, do they thrive and survive? hell yeah[/QUOTE]
When was the last time you saw a lion at the zoo that looked like is was happy. Ive been to the zoo many times and have yet to see a happy lion that does anything besides eat and sleep. Sorry but your example sucks.

 

[nightbreed]

Hmmm perhaps you have crappy zoo's, infact the word zoo may of been misleading as our zoo's tend to avoid large carnivores their care tends to be left to "safari parks" and the lions there tend to be very content.

And incase you didnt realise lions in the wild tend to do nothing but eat sleep and breed, not much of a shift in behaviour.

 

[Empi]

Last time I checked there was a lot of hunting for food in a lions life in the wild there buddy. I don't see any of that at the Zoo. By the way, Washington has two world renouned zoos.

 

[nightbreed]

Last time I checked there was a lot of hunting for food in a lions life in the wild there buddy. I don't see any of that at the Zoo. By the way, Washington has two world renouned zoos.

Only the females hunt my friend, and I wasnt dissing your zoo's, like I said I meant "safari parks"

 

[mimic58]

Inverts dont feel pain in the same way verts do

That is no joke either how else could it eat its own damaged limbs , or amputate them, thats not something you see mamals doing.

 

[Twizted Paths]

This whole thread is wacked! Have you people never seen what cute little fuzzy kitty cats do to mice? That mouse had a quick and easy death compared to what my cat would have done to it! Why can't you people get even half as outraged over humans destroying ENTIRE habitats and ALL the creatures in them? As for the human eating scorpion, if I could get my hands on one it would be well fed, which is why I don't own anacondas.

 

[Empi]

This whole thread is wacked! Have you people never seen what cute little fuzzy kitty cats do to mice? That mouse had a quick and easy death compared to what my cat would have done to it! Why can't you people get even half as outraged over humans destroying ENTIRE habitats and ALL the creatures in them? As for the human eating scorpion, if I could get my hands on one it would be well fed, which is why I don't own anacondas.

LOL, Nice, I think that about says it all. Nice one! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[nightbreed]

This whole thread is wacked! Have you people never seen what cute little fuzzy kitty cats do to mice? That mouse had a quick and easy death compared to what my cat would have done to it! Why can't you people get even half as outraged over humans destroying ENTIRE habitats and ALL the creatures in them? As for the human eating scorpion, if I could get my hands on one it would be well fed, which is why I don't own anacondas.

Um, I dont advocate feeding live mice to cats either :? but at least any mouse your cat gets had a chance to escape and blew it, that is natural selection at work, there is nothing natural about picking a mouse putting it in a confined place with a predator and sitting back to watch the show :wall:

My friend dont presume to tell me what I get outraged about, you dont have a clue what I campaign for in my spare time, what work I do to halt deforestation, you dont know and you didnt ask you assumed, as a wise man once said assumption is the mother of all >self edit< ups

 

[Empi]

LOL<This has turned into the mother of all arguments. I don't think KLIK new what he was getting into. I for one I'm done. I said what I needed to say and pissed off enough people. This thread got way out of hand. It's starting to get way to personal. One minute we're talking about ethics and the next were dissin each others Zoos and talking about crazy $#!~ that don't even matter really. To what end! I guess what I'm saying is. Cant we all just get along. We are all freinds here right! Oh well. I for one agree with everyone. At this point I think what it comes down to is we all have are own feelings about the subject and there is no changing any of them so whats the point

 

[nightbreed]

This has turned into the mother of all arguments. I don't think KLIK new what he was getting into. I for one I'm done. I said what I needed to say and pissed off enough people. This thread got way out of hand. It's starting to get way to personal. One minute we're talking about ethics and the next were dissin each others Zoos and talking about crazy $#!~ that don't even matter really. To what end! I guess what I'm saying is. Cant we all just get along. We are all freinds here right! Oh well. I for one agree with everyone. At this point I think what it comes down to is we all have are own feelings about the subject and there is no changing any of them so whats the point

lol Sorry man if you think I was getting personal not my intention at all, and I'm sure your zoo's kick butt

And you didnt piss me off in the least, I welcome the debate (not argument) and I realise I'm not going to change anybodies mind on the subject, but it is fun to have a little light hearted debate aint it

 

[carpe scorpio]

Um, I dont advocate feeding live mice to cats either :? but at least any mouse your cat gets had a chance to escape and blew it, that is natural selection at work, there is nothing natural about picking a mouse putting it in a confined place with a predator and sitting back to watch the show :wall:

My friend dont presume to tell me what I get outraged about, you dont have a clue what I campaign for in my spare time, what work I do to halt deforestation, you dont know and you didnt ask you assumed, as a wise man once said assumption is the mother of all >self edit< ups

Game, Set and Match!! :clap:

 

[Predator]

I think its ignorant to say that feeding live mice and other things to scorpions, snakes, and whatever is cruel and not right. I would think keeping them locked up in a cage would be just as cruel or worse. I mean it makes no sense to me that you can say its cruel to feed a live mouse to a scorp but its fine to stuff the scorps into a deli cup or small cage for the rest of their lives. I think its healthy to feed scorps lizards and things. I have fed small lizards to my emps on occasion and they love them. Now I love lizards and dont like using them as food but I do it because I believe its a benefit to my emps. There has been times my emps want nothing to do with crickets but put a small lizard in there and they seem soo happy. They wouldnt give it a second thought on grabbing and eating it. My emps never chase a cricket and will only eat it if it comes to them. Lizards well they will rush out and grab it.

 

[Empi]

Good debate for sure mate.