Scorp Vs Mouse

[KLiK]

well i decided to give my full grown emp a small mouse to eat because he is always eating. and he grabbed the mouse by the neck and by a back leg and the mouse tried to escape a few times and the scorp kept stinging it. the thing i was wondering was why it took so many stings to kill the mouse. the whole proccess took about a half hour for the mouse to die. is emperor scorp venom really that weak?

 

[mimic58]

well i decided to give my full grown emp a small mouse to eat because he is always eating. and he grabbed the mouse by the neck and by a back leg and the mouse tried to escape a few times and the scorp kept stinging it. the thing i was wondering was why it took so many stings to kill the mouse. the whole proccess took about a half hour for the mouse to die. is emperor scorp venom really that weak?

You should be ashamed of yourself that is TERRIBLE and very crewl, If you must feed live mice to an animal atleast pick one that is able to kill it quickly, This is just not acceptable in anyway shape or form And i find it hard to contemplate that you just sat there an watched the poor thing get stung over and over again for 30 minutes untill it eventualy died from FEAR or toxic shock, In this country you could be banned from keeping animals and heavily fined for such an act.

 

[cacoseraph]

i think emp venom is geared towards invertebrates, but i could be wrong

 

[Brian S]

You should be ashamed of yourself that is TERRIBLE and very crewl, If you must feed live mice to an animal atleast pick one that is able to kill it quickly, This is just not acceptable in anyway shape or form And i find it hard to contemplate that you just sat there an watched the poor thing get stung over and over again for 30 minutes untill it eventualy died from FEAR or toxic shock, In this country you could be banned from keeping animals and heavily fined for such an act.

Well he is not in England and it IS allowed over here. Things like that happen in the wild so I can't see why you have such a hard time understanding it.
In saying this, I would NEVER give a mouse to my scorpion though. It is just too risky (I think) for the scorpion.

 

[cacoseraph]

You should be ashamed of yourself that is TERRIBLE and very crewl, If you must feed live mice to an animal atleast pick one that is able to kill it quickly, This is just not acceptable in anyway shape or form And i find it hard to contemplate that you just sat there an watched the poor thing get stung over and over again for 30 minutes untill it eventualy died from FEAR or toxic shock, In this country you could be banned from keeping animals and heavily fined for such an act.

so how *do* brits kill mice?
mechanical damage traps are CRUEL and not 100% lethal, leaving mangled mice sometimes
poisons bioaccumulate, generally are gruesome, and again some are not 100% effective
sticky/live traps don't really solve the problem, just make a new one

is england over run by rats? do you live catch them and export to the Scots?

 

[KLiK]

You should be ashamed of yourself that is TERRIBLE and very crewl, If you must feed live mice to an animal atleast pick one that is able to kill it quickly, This is just not acceptable in anyway shape or form And i find it hard to contemplate that you just sat there an watched the poor thing get stung over and over again for 30 minutes untill it eventualy died from FEAR or toxic shock, In this country you could be banned from keeping animals and heavily fined for such an act.

but im not being fined or banned from keeping them. i really dont think it is that big of a deal. its a mouse. something that is highly overpopulated. what would it matter if it died so a scorp could have a meal?

 

[eatinmachine]

Animals must eat and they eat what they catch the scorp caught a mouse it's natural.

 

[mimic58]

so how *do* brits kill mice?
mechanical damage traps are CRUEL and not 100% lethal, leaving mangled mice sometimes
poisons bioaccumulate, generally are gruesome, and again some are not 100% effective
sticky/live traps don't really solve the problem, just make a new one

is england over run by rats? do you live catch them and export to the Scots?

Not really i just shoot them through the head with my rifle and if im pre killing one again i would just head shot it, Death is imediate, it doesnt even know its comming......

As for scorpions killing mice in the wild Where??, Im not calling you a lier but i have never heard of this, Scorpions venom was designed for inverts, It doesnt work on mamals like T's venom, In there natural enviroments mice would not be on the menu though a scorp may kill one to defend itself, prey would be more like small lizards other scorpions and insects...

 

[mimic58]

but im not being fined or banned from keeping them. i really dont think it is that big of a deal. its a mouse. something that is highly overpopulated. what would it matter if it died so a scorp could have a meal?

It has nothing to do with survival your scorp doesnt need mice to live, And over population does not justify in humane killing of animals, Im sorry but it is just wrong for something to suffer for 30 minutes before dieing when there is apsolutly no need for it, If your scorpion required them to survive i would agree but the fact is it doesnt.

 

[nightbreed]

I've got no problem with a mouse dying to provide a meal, but the manner of its passing leaves a lot to be desired half an hour for Christs sake

Yes things like that do happen in the wild, whats your point? scorps get stepped on and crushed in the wild they get eaten by predators do you simulate these occurrences? Not having a dig at you mate but that whole "it happens in the wild" line just doesnt hold water with me, these animals are not in the wild and if we can keep them without causing unnesessary suffering to them or their prey items then we should, just my 2 pence worth.

And yes us Brits do kill rodents we just dont sit and watch animals die in pain for entertainment. (well most of us dont)

 

[Blasphemy]

As for scorpions killing mice in the wild Where??, Im not calling you a lier but i have never heard of this, Scorpions venom was designed for inverts, It doesnt work on mamals like T's venom, In there natural enviroments mice would not be on the menu though a scorp may kill one to defend itself, prey would be more like small lizards other scorpions and insects...

Well if this is so, then why is scorpion venom rated on the LD 50 scale? That scale is used only on lab mice. Species like A. australis seemed to be designed to kill mice quite quickly.

 

[parabuthus]

Hmmm...

End of the day, ANYTHING a scorp captures and consumes will suffer a slow painful death. Whether it is a locust, a cricket, a mouse or a small lizard. That is the manner in which they consume food, there is nothing quick and painless about it. The only time they don't suffer AS MUCH is when the scorp eats the prey item head first. Alot of the time though, they start from the bottom up.

But sure, inverts and verts... 'different kettle of fish' as some would say. That said, Scorps such as Emps can and DO prey on small rodents and small lizards in the wild. Therefore it could be considered a natural prey item. And since we are trying to recreate a natural microhabitat for our scorps... well, you get the picture.

I still wouldn't feed a mouse to my Emp!

 

[cacoseraph]

Well if this is so, then why is scorpion venom rated on the LD 50 scale? That scale is used only on lab mice. Species like A. australis seemed to be designed to kill mice quite quickly.

they had to pick *something* to standardize against. and as lab's tend to have a lot of lab mice around...

i personally think pigs would have been a better choice, as putatively the idea behind LD50 is to have a reference for human envenomations... and pigs are about a billion times more similar to human physiology than mice...

but i think the tiny size of the mouse, and the fact they need to kill relatively lots of them to get an accurate LD50 had something to do with it

 

[carpe scorpio]

A. australis seemed to be designed to kill mice quite quickly.

Don't give him any more ideas.

 

[parabuthus]

LOL.

Poor mice .

 

[Psoulocybe]

omg...

dude... sorry people are yelling at you.

the only thing i'd be worried about is the prey item hurting your predator.

it's a damn feeder mouse people..... can we please remember that us non-euro do things a little differently.

 

[Androctonus_bic]

Guiving a long time and crewl die, for any animal, is not a responsable act. All creatures are alive and all creatures must to have respecta and a fast die in the terrarium.

And here in Spain like in USA, Burkina faso or Cambodja, the people must have common sense with their scorps and with the scorpion's food. We are people not monsters.

Don't make suffer any animal. Use the common sense.

 

[parabuthus]

But it doesn't matter what you feed your scorp, it is going to die slowly!

I would be more concerned for my scorp's welfare. Mice can bite pretty hard...

 

[nightbreed]

My friend this is not a Euro "thing" this is a humane "thing" why would you feed a live vertebrate to any predator if you dont have to? Hell I wouldnt give a damn if it was quick but we are talking about HALF AN HOUR of suffering :wall:

Just give me one good reason to feed live verts if there is an alternative? go on just one, lets see if you can.

 

[nightbreed]

But it doesn't matter what you feed your scorp, it is going to die slowly!

I would be more concerned for my scorp's welfare. Mice can bite pretty hard...

Yes any live prey has the chance of a slow death but as has been discussed at great length on these boards crickets and other inverts dont feel pain......a mouse on the other hand.

Look I'm not squeamish, but why do it if you dont have to? If you have a predator that will eat nothing but live mice and thats the only way to keep your pet alive, then no probs go for it, but if there is an alternative it seems like its just entertainment and I'm sorry thats just wrong.