Sad Announcement

[Protectyaaaneck]

well it still doesnt sound like conclusive evidence...in all reality once your T has DS it doesnt sound like there is anything you can do for it. Im sorry for your T but there probably isnt anything you can do. I still dont think lowering the temps is gonna help the T at ALL. bacteria will still grow at 60 degrees. I wouldnt want to prolong my T's death just to see it live a little longer. What if its suffering, I know one things for sure DS doesnt look to comfortable.

now where is this block button thingy?...

 

[Protectyaaaneck]

well considering the thread has no EVIDENCE as to what causes DS I am not going to buy the lower the temps idea. That thread is just filled with speculation and questions, no hard evidence or fact.

 

[Endagr8]

I agree and I'm sorry for my aggressive attitude earlier. There definitely needs to be more research on ds. Lower temps would slow the growth of bacteria though.

 

[Protectyaaaneck]

Yeah its too bad we don't have more info on it. Its sad to see T's suffer. I hope I never have to encounter this myself. Maybe with time, we will figure out what it is and how to prevent it. (still seems like a long shot though, not enough people in this world care about T's and bugs in general).

 

[xhexdx]

<edit>

Anyway, to the OP: I have heard of some people successfully hand-feeding their tarantulas with suspected DS to their next molt, and the symptoms appeared to decrease, if not disappear, with the molt. Those who had decreased symptoms had no symptoms the followng molt.

So, keep her fed (hand feed her if you have to) and keep her alive, and you may get her through it!

--Joe

 

[IrishPolishman]

Well it ended badly so I have her currently in a container in the freezer. Is there anyway to preserve her or keep her for display? If this sounds weird let me know and i'll shut up. Normally I just bury my pets but I would like to somehow keep this one around. What to do?

 

[Skullptor]

An ICU would be the worst possible treatment for a t if ds is bacterial also; you've offered the perfect breeding grounds, temp, darkness, hydration, and humidity for the bacteria. Haven't you ever done a science fair project where you cultivate bacteria in your closet or something?

ICU isn't the same thing as keeping something in a petri dish.

Bacteria can live at a WIDE range of temperatures, depending on what species you are talking about.

You are making a large assumption that the bacteria (if that is even the cause) can be slowed at a temperature that won't harm his T. This sounds like potentially harmful advice under the guise of science to me.

sorry to hear that it didn't make it. You could put it in resin or a a shadow box.

 

[Nerri1029]

ICU isn't the same thing as keeping something in a petri dish.

Bacteria can live at a WIDE range of temperatures, depending on what species you are talking about.

You are making a large assumption that the bacteria (if that is even the cause) can be slowed at a temperature that won't harm his T. This sounds like potentially harmful advice under the guise of science to me.

sorry to hear that it didn't make it. You could put it in resin or a a shadow box.

I couldn't agree more.

Cooling the spider will certainly slow the T's own metabolism and its ability to cure itself. As for the bacteria I grow species that can survive 57*C and some that will be hindered by temps near body temperature.

Bacteria that infect a cold blooded creature like a spider are:
- likely to be able to thrive at cool temps. ( room and cooler )
- will likely have to survive in outdoor media.

neither would suggest that they would be seriously hindered by cool temps that your T would survive.

that said I can't prove the hypothesis wrong, but I put it in the highly unlikely to be beneficial category.

 

[bliss]

why do people call it diskinetic "syndrome"..? i do not think it's a "syndrome".

if anything, it should be called diskinetic "symptoms".

to make an example:
it would be like saying if everytime someone got a fever, they suffered from the flu. when in reality, it doesn't mean they have the flu, as it could be any number of things that cause feverish symptoms.

someone explain this to me...

 

[scottyk]

An ICU would be the worst possible treatment for a t if ds is bacterial also; you've offered the perfect breeding grounds, temp, darkness, hydration, and humidity for the bacteria. Haven't you ever done a science fair project where you cultivate bacteria in your closet or something?

The ICU is a proven method of keeping a sick tarantula hydrated and warm, which is the only thing you can do at this point. It will still have to recover with no further intervention. It's not like you can take it to the vet for an injection of antibiotics.

The idea of an ICU being a breeding ground for a bacterial infection is moot if it already has one. This statement would only be true if we were discussing keeping a healthy tarantula in an overly warm and moist enviroment for an extended period.

 

[Endagr8]

But it is recommended that water is sterilized before being placed in an ICU, in an effort to prevent bacterial growth. This suggests that bacteria prefer these environments (the host of bacteria has similar conditions; the inside of animals is warm, dark, moist). Almost all bacteria that infest living animals thrive at warm temperatures as well.

 

[scottyk]

There would be no point. Assuming that it even is a bacterial infection, and assuming that it's external, as soon as you put the tarantula in, the environment is no longer sterile. You would obviously not want to wet the ICU with water from yout toilet, but buying an autoclave is probably overkill....

 

[Endagr8]

Why would it be external? It looks like an infection of the nervous system.
Ps: you don't need an autoclave to sterilize water.

 

[scottyk]

What would a sterile enclosure do for an internal infection?

You do need an autoclave to sterilize everything else. You're not suggesting adding sterile water to an unsterilized container, are you?

I not actually suggesting getting an autoclave. I'm trying to make you see that your idea is impractical and unnecessary. You are confusing cleanliness with sterilization. To do an ICU, add clean water to some paper towels, and put it all in a clean container. Then put it in a warm, dark place and monitor/spot clean as necessary.

That's the end of the story...

 

[Boanerges]

Sorry to see your seemani didn't make it!!!

 

[Endagr8]

What would a sterile enclosure do for an internal infection?

You do need an autoclave to sterilize everything else. You're not suggesting adding sterile water to an unsterilized container, are you?

I not actually suggesting getting an autoclave. I'm trying to make you see that your idea is impractical and unnecessary. You are confusing cleanliness with sterilization. To do an ICU, add clean water to some paper towels, and put it all in a clean container. Then put it in a warm, dark place and monitor/spot clean as necessary.

That's the end of the story...

]

Whatever dude......you don't need an autoclave to sterilize everything else btw (alcohol and boiling water can be poured over things). Glass containers can be sterilized. If ds is caused by bacteria in the bowel, as an earlier post suggests, then some of it would be expelled into the perfect breeding grounds of an ICU each time the spider defecates. :razz: :} :drool:

 

[scottyk]

If ds is caused by bacteria in the bowel, as an earlier post suggests, then some of it would be expelled into the perfect breeding grounds of an ICU each time the spider defecates. :razz: :} :drool:

And if there was sterilized water in there when the spider defecates, that would be different how? I'll also be waiting for your explanation of how to sterilize the paper towels with boiling water and alcohol.

No need to "whatever dude" me. If you don't have your facts straight, and are not capable of discussing it in a mature fashion then we can end it here. My goal of setting the record straght for those who may need an ICU is completed. If you choose not to get it, that's your perogotive....

 

[Endagr8]

And if there was sterilized water in there when the spider defecates, that would be different how? I'll also be waiting for your explanation of how to sterilize the paper towels with boiling water and alcohol.

No need to "whatever dude" me. If you don't have your facts straight, and are not capable of discussing it in a mature fashion then we can end it here. My goal of setting the record straght for those who may need an ICU is completed. If you choose not to get it, that's your perogotive....

I'm saying that an ICU is the wrong way to go if a t has ds. If it did poop in an ICU, the whole thing would be a breeding ground for the bacteria that is ailing the t. To sterilize paper towels for ICU- pour boiling water over them/ stick them in oven/microwave/use ultraviolet light to sterilize EVERYTHING. Be careful not to set them on fire obviously

 

[scottyk]

I'm saying that an ICU is the wrong way to go if a t has ds. If it did poop in an ICU, the whole thing would be a breeding ground for the bacteria that is ailing the t.

I understand, and I'm saying that your assertion is incorrect for several reasons.

1- Sterilizing the container does nothing. Blood culture plates that labs use to "culture" bacteria are sterile when you open them. As soon as you put the tarantula in there it is no longer a sterile environment.

2- An internal bacterial infection is already inside the tarantula, and will be geared to survive that environment. It will not thrive on a damp paper towel. Your reasoning would be the equivalent of a hospital treating an aids patient by sterilizing the room.

3- In ICU is a great enough help to the tarantula that it is worth putting it in there. There are countless documented cases of this working right here on the boards. The extra warmth and fluids are to help give it the strength to fight off the problem itself.

4- Again, cleanliness vs sterilization. You need to monitor an ICU and keep it clean, which has been stated several times. If the paper towels get soiled, common sense would dictate that you take 5 minutes and clean it up.

5- No one understands DS, and there is no way to know in advance if this is the problem.

Any of this making sense to you?

 

[Endagr8]

I understand, and I'm saying that your assertion is incorrect for several reasons.

1- Sterilizing the container does nothing. Blood culture plates that labs use to "culture" bacteria are sterile when you open them. As soon as you put the tarantula in there it is no longer a sterile environment.

2- An internal bacterial infection is already inside the tarantula, and will be geared to survive that environment. It will not thrive on a damp paper towel. Your reasoning would be the equivalent of a hospital treating an aids patient by sterilizing the room.

3- In ICU is a great enough help to the tarantula than it is worth putting it in there. There are countless documented cases of this working right here on the boards. The extra warmth and fluids are to help give it the strength to fight off the problem itself.

4- Again, cleanliness vs sterilization. You need to monitor an ICU and keep it clean, which has been stated several times. If the paper towels get soiled, common sense would dictate that you take 5 minutes and clean it up.

5- No one understands DS, and there is no way to know in advance if this is the problem.

Any of this making sense to you?

1.-I know that.
2.-Like I said, when the t defecates, the bacteria are on the warm, damp paper towel in the feces, a suitable environment for the bacteria. While they continue to propagate on the feces, they can spread to the paper towel (bacteria can survive on different mediums). And then back to the tarantula when it drinks from the ICU....this is why they recommend changing paper towels often (and to prevent mold).
You could effectively treat an AIDS patient by sterilizing the room, greatly extending their life.
3.-Has an ICU proved successful against DS?
4.-No one understands DS, and there is no way to know in advance if this is the problem. WAIT, What did you just say? His t obviously had DS.

In conclusion, the warmth added by the ICU helps bacteria propagate internally. Colder temps would hinder this growth. An Icu would be more effective for a t suffering with DS if temps were cooler (55-65) and it were kept insanely clean. The only benefit of your method is hydration, which could have been contaminated by feces; unless, of course one were to disturb the t by checking on it every 5 min like you said to clean, stressing it drastically.