Sack splitting agreements/Male sharing

[PelesAsher]

I’ve only ever sold my mature males out right but I have a couple special species males that will be maturing within the near-ish future, for these species I would be interested in keeping some slings to grow up a bit and sell off.

What are the traditional arrangements people make? Is it best to just sell the male? Is it possible to have someone promise to send back some slings and they actually do it? Who pays shipping? Does the male come "home"?

What have your experiences been with sack splitting? Have you sent off males for breeding? Have you ever sent a male to multiple people? Is it even worth entering into an agreement with someone? I wouldn't be worried if it was an albo male if things fall through but if its a stirmi male that's potentially big money...

Thoughts on this subject?

 

[cold blood]

What are the traditional arrangements people make? Is

A traditional loan would be a 50-50 split of any slings produced.

But any arrangement can be reached in advance. I've had many people that just wanted a few slings back or a small portion of the sac back.

it best to just sell the male

Sometimes....especially if you cant find a breeder you trust...ie, no experience, no online presence, no breeding reviews indicating past success.

Is it possible to have someone promise to send back some slings and they actually do

of course...there are reliable people out there....unfortunately not everyone is reliable.

Who pays shipping

normally each pay their own....but there are no hard and fast rules...its just easier as no one needs to be dealing with money transfers.

My rule of thumb is that each pay their own if its someone i know, trust, or have dealt with before in a positive manner....otherwise, the breeder needs to pay to have me ship....this is simply because if i dont get results, or get screwed over, at least i didnt pay initial shipping costs.

Does the male come "home"?

If you make that request, sure....most do not want or ask for MMs back though.

What have your experiences been with sack splitting?

Well ive sent MMs to a lot of people, and ive dealt with exactly 2 people that have given me a return on my investment....as a result, i now only loan to those i know in some fashion or have a working relationship with. Anyone else I sell the male to or I trade for other slings (which is a great option). AB is a great place to develop good working relationships with like minded people

breeding? Have you ever sent a male to multiple people

Sure, many times.... sometimes after receiving a mature male, the owner of that male will request I send to a third party, which I've never had a problem doing. Ive had males end up with 5 or 6 different people....i still only ever got returns from those i trusted and had a relationship with in the first place though.

Is it even worth entering into an agreement with someone

it is if you believe or have reason to believe you can trust the person.

It can be disheartening to send out male after male and get nothing in return though. When I started breeding it became even more so, as I seem to be returning slings to just about every person that loaned me a mature male.

Loaning is never a guarantee, but if you loan to the right people the odds are far better that you get a return than most people would lead you to believe...JME.

 

[PelesAsher]

I would love to have some slings but not ALL the slings. I had someone I knew and trusted straight jack a male from me, he DID pay me for what he was worth BUT that was not what I wanted or we agreed upon and it was a very ugly experience. I went quietly cause I had no other choice. Because of that I have a sour taste in my mouth when it comes to trusting someone when money is involved, but would like to have some passive experience in a breeding.

All that being said thank you Coldblood; I have you in mind first for a couple of my boys.

 

[EulersK]

I would love to have some slings but not ALL the slings.

If that's the case, I'd personally ask them to pay for shipping of the male. Since it's not a 50/50 split, the breeder will end up way ahead since you're only looking for a few spiders in return.

You already got a great overview, so I won't expand on that. Just my own experience - I've got a very small number of people I would do a loan with, and that's all. I've sent out two MM's outside of that circle way back when I was first starting. The first one claimed that the female molted out, only to see slings of that species being sold by him a couple months later. "Those I bought wholesale," he said when I confronted him about it. That one was actually a well known seller at the time. The other person simply claimed to have never gotten the spider, despite it being signed for upon delivery. Didn't feel like pursuing it legally over a $50 male. So yeah, I'll never do that again.

@cold blood is always the first person I reach out to when I've got a male, I can personally vouch for him if you're looking to do a loan.

 

[PelesAsher]

Thank you @EulersK, some people are just so disrespectful! And yes I've heard nothing but exemplary things about Cold blood.

 

[cold blood]

@cold blood is always the first person I reach out to when I've got a male, I can personally vouch for him if you're looking to do a loan.

Likewise, you are someone id trust without hesitation....if only you bred more often....lol.

 

[EulersK]

Likewise, you are someone id trust without hesitation....if only you bred more often....lol.

Ironically, I'm looking at a few sacs right now! I just happened to have a few of these males sitting around already. I plan on selling them all wholesale though, never going to be feeding that many slings again... it was the death of me.

 

[PelesAsher]

@EulersK hahaha, I know I couldn't do that either. I have the attention span of a broken fruit-loop and absolutely no grace. All vials would end up tipped over, spiderlings everywhere, babies stepped on and/or living under the couch. No thank you...I can give my semi gentle care and attention to approximately 4-7 slings of one species. I am no saint, future investments be damned.

 

[cold blood]

Thats funny....i cant think of an easier part of t keeping and breeding than feeding the slings...lol

 

[moricollins]

I had great success doing a 50/50 split with a friend way back when, and some success with other people who were very involved in AB , funnily enough not much success with people who weren't heavily involved in AB.

Ground rules and agreements are important so everyone knows what's expected.

Then again, people had little success when I was receiving the MM, I routinely had the females molt out.

 

[EulersK]

Thats funny....i cant think of an easier part of t keeping and breeding than feeding the slings...lol

Spending a couple hours per month on my 200 juvies/adults, or a couple hours per week feeding slings? Nope, almost ruined the hobby for me. I hated it. Never again.

 

[Theneil]

Well ive sent MMs to a lot of people, and ive dealt with exactly 2 people that have given me a return on my investment....as a result, i now only loan to those i know in some fashion or have a working relationship with. Anyone else I sell the male to or I trade for other slings (which is a great option). AB is a great place to develop good working relationships with like minded people

Wow. Those are some pretty lousy numbers...

I am still in the infant-toddler stage of breeding, and will usually attempt to buy or trade for a male rather than a loan exactly because i DON’T want to leave somebody shipping me something and not getting something back, and if they insist on a loan anyway i try to offer a worst case scenario compensation. Got an X. immanis on the line right now if one of my P. irminia don’t put out.

 

[Arachnophoric]

Reading all of this really makes me think that I really lucked out with my first MM/loan experience thus far, the guy I sent my I. mira to has been fantastic to work with and even put in that if my male got munched or the female didn't produce that he'd compensate me. I knew that there was risk when loaning out your males, but ouch.

I am still in the infant-toddler stage of breeding, and will usually attempt to buy or trade for a male rather than a loan exactly because i DON’T want to leave somebody shipping me something and not getting something back

I completely understand this and am in the same boat myself. I'd feel awful if my inexperience left the other party empty-handed, especially if the male got munched in the process, so I don't think I'll be looking to take in any males on loan until I stack up a decent portfolio on successful breedings. And after reading how dirty some people got done in this thread, I'll definitely be more cautious on sending my own out going forward if I'm not doing a trade or outright sale.

 

[Drea]

Reading all of this makes me want to take the chance with my M. Balfouri. I have two offers to buy him out right and one for a split sac.

I really want the slings for myself to set up communal enclosures’s. Selling out right gives me nothing but some cash to buy a few more. That is almost just as bad as letting him die of old age.

Spilt sac gives me a chance to get some slings and a chance to gain some trust in humanity. It seems like a chance worth taking.

 

[PelesAsher]

Reading all of this makes me want to take the chance with my M. Balfouri.

Well Drea maybe Cold blood and/or EulersK might know of the people you're looking to work with. Its worth asking them in private what they know if anything about them. I will be doing slit sacks I've decided. Yes I got screwed on my first attempt but I feel theres no way the tarantula Gods will let me get into another screaming match with a mental 6'3" tarantula man. Btw the cops DO NOT CARE if someone is holding your tarantula hostage. I get it its not a dog or something but STILL.

I hope shes in premolt.

 

[Drea]

Well Drea maybe Cold blood and/or EulersK might know of the people you're looking to work with. Its worth asking them in private what they know if anything about them. I will be doing slit sacks I've decided. Yes I got screwed on my first attempt but I feel theres no way the tarantula Gods will let me get into another screaming match with a mental 6'3" tarantula man. Btw the cops DO NOT CARE if someone is holding your tarantula hostage. I get it its not a dog or something but STILL.

I hope shes in premolt.

I am little feisty so if I got jibbed, I would get compensated one way or another.

Unfortunately, many people or organizations don’t care. Small claims court would but most of the T hobby is done on the honor system and there aren’t signed contracts that go with it.

The person I going to split a sac with is a very reputable person and although I have only purchased T’s from him, he seems like a nice guy. Many other people that I know personally have also backed up his reputation for trades and spilts. But I am still nervous because I have heard about all the horror stories.

We are only a few hours away from each other so driving and meeting in the middle is cheaper than shipping.

There is always that I am feisty as heck thing too if it doesn’t work out as planned.

Good luck with yours.

 

[PelesAsher]

Oh, I got his value after much screaming... the cash was balled up and thrown out the front door at me. BEAST MODE. I would have just sold the MM if he had given him back so whatever.

Its all good though, karmas a thing. Coldbloods my boy now, I'm safe in his manly fishy hands.

 

[Drea]

I'm safe in his manly fishy hands.

Lol :’) omg my stomach hurts from laugh. I love it!!

 

[Teal]

I sent out no less than half a dozen boys on loan to different people last year and didn't receive a single sling back. I got all the "excuses"... female molted, female died, female rejected the male, female ate the male... Sooo yeah, I sell my males outright now if I don't have use for them.

I currently have two males on loan from other people and it has me incredibly stressed out... I probably won't be looking to do loans this way anymore either.

I sold a male, the person had success with him, and I plan to buy back some slings. I think that is the safest option.

 

[PelesAsher]

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I currently have two males on loan from other people and it has me incredibly stressed out... I probably won't be looking to do loans this way anymore either.

That sucks. I hope you have success with your current lads.