Robc bitten by a P.regalis.

[bamato]

Alright, so keep it in the tarantula forum. No problem. But for those of us who wish not to participate in the discussion on right and wrong on 13 year olds being in possession of potentially harmful tarantulas, and just would like to hear updates from Rob and how he's doing, would prefer not to sift through the all the "stuff". :?

 

[bamato]

Ok, well looks like another thread was started while I was posting. Sounds good, thanks Dork.

 

[cacoseraph]

Aahahahaaa!!!!!

oh man! this was a very entertaining thread!


i never cease to be amused by uneducated self medication!


robc, you do realize that not only would the benadryl NOT help you... but you took WAY more than the manufacture recommends and could have hurt yourself? hehehe. did you tell the nurse or whatever that you took so much? what was the dosage and active ingredients in those pills, do you know?


AND a CNS depressant when you are obviously suffering a nervous system attack? freaking hilarious! that is basically speedballing your system. not highly advised hehehe



man oh man! good readin' here!



the problem with uneducated self medicating is that you can screw up things so that the docs can treat you the way they want. and as robc demonstrated, you can potentially poison yourself by taking too much medicine. one should always read labels


apologies if this has already been covered, a lot of posters on this thread or in my ignore list and i got sick of uncovering each post individually... and then i just started skipping around when the posts looked boring and stupid hehehe


btw, i found this thread when i was searching for threads on tarantulas farting heh

 

[Protectyaaaneck]

btw, i found this thread when i was searching for threads on tarantulas farting heh

That's odd :?

 

[robc]

oh man! this was a very entertaining thread!


i never cease to be amused by uneducated self medication!


robc, you do realize that not only would the benadryl NOT help you... but you took WAY more than the manufacture recommends and could have hurt yourself? hehehe. did you tell the nurse or whatever that you took so much? what was the dosage and active ingredients in those pills, do you know?


AND a CNS depressant when you are obviously suffering a nervous system attack? freaking hilarious! that is basically speedballing your system. not highly advised hehehe



man oh man! good readin' here!



the problem with uneducated self medicating is that you can screw up things so that the docs can treat you the way they want. and as robc demonstrated, you can potentially poison yourself by taking too much medicine. one should always read labels


apologies if this has already been covered, a lot of posters on this thread or in my ignore list and i got sick of uncovering each post individually... and then i just started skipping around when the posts looked boring and stupid hehehe


btw, i found this thread when i was searching for threads on tarantulas farting heh

Your crazy bro...I have watched your video's....I actualyy like them LOL.....I did not poision myself....I took a little to much benadryl....wich it did help. To be honest...if I am bit again I will probaly just ride it out....medication doesnt do much!

 

[cacoseraph]

i didn't say you poisoned yourself... i said you took too much and could potentially poison yourself. i don't know all the specific mechanisms of benadryl medication on the body, but taking 2-4 times the daily dosage in 30 minutes probably did something slightly unpleasant to you *somehow*. AND there is a tiny chance that it could have interacted negatively with something in the venom and really hurt you. in drug world there is something called a synergistic reaction. essentially two drugs that have relatively minor effects separately, when taken together can have WAY bigger effects than might be thought. for instance, CNS (central nervous system) depressants can have gnarly synergistic reactions. a shot of whiskey by itself does not have that pronounced affect on a person, nor does a "regular" sleeping pill (low dosage barbiturate, say).... but take them together and you can potentially depress your autonomic functions (heart rate, breathing, etc) to such an extent that medical intervention might be necessary






i want ppl to realize that they need to KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING when they get envenomated.


all these scorpion keepers with epipens just kill me. they think it is some magic cure all. IF they are going into anaphylactic shock then it could be.. otherwise a big jolt of adrenalin is probably NOT what the doctor ordered. heh. ESPECIALLY if you are already suffering from tachycardia. you could possibly kill yourself


same thing with allergy medicines. generally, tarantula, centipede, and scorpion envenomations do not trigger allergic reactions. taking allergy medicine does not relieve these venom symptoms, and thus should not be taken as it is unnecessarily altering body chemistry



thanks for watching my vids, btw. but i did do a year of reading before trying out centipede venoms

 

[robc]

i didn't say you poisoned yourself... i said you took too much and could potentially poison yourself. i don't know all the specific mechanisms of benadryl medication on the body, but taking 2-4 times the daily dosage in 30 minutes probably did something slightly unpleasant to you *somehow*. AND there is a tiny chance that it could have interacted negatively with something in the venom and really hurt you. in drug world there is something called a synergistic reaction. essentially two drugs that have relatively minor effects separately, when taken together can have WAY bigger effects than might be thought. for instance, CNS (central nervous system) depressants can have gnarly synergistic reactions. a shot of whiskey by itself does not have that pronounced affect on a person, nor does a "regular" sleeping pill (low dosage barbiturate, say).... but take them together and you can potentially depress your autonomic functions (heart rate, breathing, etc) to such an extent that medical intervention might be necessary






i want ppl to realize that they need to KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING when they get envenomated.


all these scorpion keepers with epipens just kill me. they think it is some magic cure all. IF they are going into anaphylactic shock then it could be.. otherwise a big jolt of adrenalin is probably NOT what the doctor ordered. heh. ESPECIALLY if you are already suffering from tachycardia. you could possibly kill yourself


same thing with allergy medicines. generally, tarantula, centipede, and scorpion envenomations do not trigger allergic reactions. taking allergy medicine does not relieve these venom symptoms, and thus should not be taken as it is unnecessarily altering body chemistry



thanks for watching my vids, btw. but i did do a year of reading before trying out centipede venoms

I appreciate all this info.....The cetipede eating your finger was awesome If I may ask what would you suggest taking or do when bit by a pokie.....I dfo see your point with the benadryl....I am alergic to bees so I am very used to taking 1500 Mil shots......I do know tarantula/bee venom has no connection. If you are alergic to bee's doesnt mean you are allergic to T venom....I pretty much just took it as a precaution!

 

[edesign]

Most Benadryl (aka diphenhydramine) tablets are 25mg and recommended adult dosage is 50mg. If I took that much I'd have been hallucinating pretty badly...if I take 50mg and try to sleep I start seeing shadows moving in the dark (sounds strange, I know...but it's the closest I can desribe it) and my dreams seem to manifest themselves before I'm asleep. Now considering the high doses of psychedelics I have done on many many different substances (many of which most people aren't even aware exist much less know what they are) these side effects are minor compared to what I have experienced...but that much diphenhydramine can not be good for you. People take excessive amounts of OTC drugs to get high but the amount you took is on the high side of even recreational use:

http://www.erowid.org/pharms/diphenhydramine/diphenhydramine_dose.shtml (quite reliable source of info on these kinds of things)

I am alergic to bees so I am very used to taking 1500 Mil shots

1500 Mil what? Milligrams? mL? Mil without a unit of measurement is useless. And what substance...I am going to guess that it is epinephrine, NOT diphenhydramine. 1500mg, not mL...(American Academy of Family Physicians):
http://www.aafp.org/afp/20031001/1325.html

Epinephrine 1:1,000 dilution, 0.2 to 0.5 mL (0.2 to 0.5 mg) in adults, or 0.01 mg per kg in children, should be injected subcutaneously or intramuscularly, usually into the upper arm. The site may be gently massaged to facilitate absorption. The dose may be repeated two or three times at 10 to 15 minutes intervals. If severe hypotension is present, epinephrine may be given as a continuous intravenous infusion. The following regimen is reasonable: 1:10,000 (100 mcg per mL) epinephrine at 1 mcg per minute, increased to 10 mcg per minute as needed.

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/ccdr-rmtc/95vol21/dr2122ea.html

The Public Health Agency of Canada recommends up to 100mg for people age 12 or over...that's a FAAAAAR cry than 1500mg. I think you are getting your drugs mixed up....very bad thing to do

 

[cacoseraph]

I appreciate all this info.....The cetipede eating your finger was awesome If I may ask what would you suggest taking or do when bit by a pokie.....I dfo see your point with the benadryl....I am alergic to bees so I am very used to taking 1500 Mil shots......I do know tarantula/bee venom has no connection. If you are alergic to bee's doesnt mean you are allergic to T venom....I pretty much just took it as a precaution!

ah, benadryl probably has a lesser affect on you, so you probably didn't take all *that* much, relative to a "normal" person


when i get bit, especially by something that i don't know what is going to happen i try to stay as calm as possible. i believe a lot of the time ppl actually like, psychosomatisize symptoms in part or whole. i also think that if they freak out and cause their blood pressure, heart rate, and metabolism to increase they can mistake those for symptoms. this is complicated by the fact they might already HAVE those symptoms from the venom and are making them worse :/

for centipedes it seems their venom is heat labile, that is it can not function above a certain temp. i have never read this about tarantulas... but heat judiciously applied can also help with muscle cramps and what not. unfortunately you have to get acute heat on the bite site FAST... it is busy trying to get into your body systems and spread out. and don't overdo it... i partially cooked my skin and muscles the last bad centipede bite i took =P



as for drug treatments... i would not suggest taking any over the counter medication for a "serious" envenomation. it is not likely to help you that much and could complicate further medical treatment. aspirin or tylenol (can't remember which) thins your blood, for instance. that could conflict with a later treatment that is needed, possibly. if, gods forfend, a bug has aggressively hemotoxic components to their venom thinning your blood could do crazy stuff!

when it seems like my CNS is not being played with i do take alcohol sometimes. it would be better not to, of course... but i do try to limit my risks by only taking it when symptoms are generally local




really and truly, i think anyone keeping anything even moderately serious (like poecis, other asian or african taras, and the heavier centipedes) should have a good rudimentary understanding of how their body works... and how drugs they might take work. for myself, i consider it dangerous not to! and i really think ppl keeping the heaviest scorpions should have a VERY good understanding of their own biology and the way drugs work! and as my epipen comments might indicate... i find that is not usually the case :/






BUT!!!!! i am no doctor. i don't have any college degrees. so... i could be wrong



edit:
and to clarify/expand... i wouldn't do prescription pain killers or muscle relaxants either! i don't know what to say ifyou are supposed to take a prescription med beyond ask your doctor! (and they are not likely to actually know... i just clearing myself of liability here hehehee)

 

[the nature boy]

I've read countless times (and from sources with quite a bit of credibility) that it is wise to take benedryl after a bite. Anyone care to clear this up either way?

 

[edesign]

I'm not a scientist/biologist/medical person but diphenhydramine is an antihistamine which means it is used to fight allergic reactions. It is a CNS depressant hence why the instructions caution against using it with alcohol or other CNS depressants. If you are bitten by something that causes your blood pressure to drop, breathing to slow/become shallow, or something else (i.e., go in to shock either because you talked yourself in to it or the venom truly caused it) and you take it you can actually compound the problem.

That's my understanding but let someone else verify/disprove that...

 

[BrynWilliams]

You are not far wrong, however there has been a development in the targeting of anti-histamines. In simple terms, the cheap anti-histamines will cross into the brain and exert their effects, i.e. making you tired etc. as well as acting in the peripheral tissue to exert the anti-allergic effects

The more expensive compounds will usually be modified slightly so that do not cross into the brain nearly as much and hence will predominantly exert their anti-allergic effect in the peripheral tissue i.e. where you've been bitten.

Thus it depends on what compound you are taking, I would recommend taking one that is labelled as 'non-drowsy' as these are normally the compounds modified to not cross into the brain as much. Consequently they are normally also the more expensive.

This is a simple explanation but I really didn't want to get into the heavy details but if anyone would like the more detailed explanation I'll be happy to divulge (if you're wondering how I know I studied pharmacology at uni as my first degree )

Bryn

I'm not a scientist/biologist/medical person but diphenhydramine is an antihistamine which means it is used to fight allergic reactions. It is a CNS depressant hence why the instructions caution against using it with alcohol or other CNS depressants. If you are bitten by something that causes your blood pressure to drop, breathing to slow/become shallow, or something else (i.e., go in to shock either because you talked yourself in to it or the venom truly caused it) and you take it you can actually compound the problem.

That's my understanding but let someone else verify/disprove that...

 

[edesign]

Thanks Bryn, so you mean antihistamines like loratadine (Claritin for those who prefer name-brand descriptions) would be better?

 

[BrynWilliams]

Yeah they're pretty much all H1 (histamine 1) receptor antagonists, but the cheaper less targeted compounds will cross into the brain and activate H2 receptors in a nonspecific fashion. It's the effects H2 which play a role in level of alertness etc so the 'non drowsy' types are better at being designed to predominantly activate H1 receptors which are present in the periphery.

So yeah, claritin non-drowsy is a better one to take than a cheaper anti histamine.

 

[BrynWilliams]

Having said that though, if you get bitten and you find you're seriously allergic things like that a tad like pissing in the wind.

If you find you're having a large reaction it's your airway you need to worry about most and the single best way to manage that is with an epi-pen.

This isn't a recommendation that anyone gets one without consulting a doctor first however, it's just the general first line treatment of acute anaphylaxis

 

[edesign]

And if I'm not mistaken anaphylaxis is not caused by any known spider venom...scorps, bees, centi's, and ants on the other hand...

 

[BrynWilliams]

Yeah you're right about it not happening directly, but if you have an allergy to spider venom which is normally only discovered upon being bitten then depending on the bite spot you may run into a problem

 

[edesign]

True...some OW T's have been known to cause nasty physical effects.

 

[jb7741]

And if I'm not mistaken anaphylaxis is not caused by any known spider venom

This is true, but venom is known to cause a histamine response in the body. Case in point was made some time ago here when someone posted lab values on a patient bitten by a T. It is justifiable to take an antihistamine after being bitten by a T.

Rob: unless Caco wishes to provide a bit more detailed evidence of his extensive medical research, then I would continue to self medicate in the manner you have in the past, only it has been correctly pointed out that the dosage is a bit on the high side.

I can't remember where I read the lab values post, perhaps someone else will remember.

 

[jb7741]

Here was the posting:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showpost.php?p=1283558&postcount=9