Raising feeder mealworms for darkling beetle display tank?

[Chimera]

So I want to get into the beetle hobby, but I have zero experience and would like to start with a really easy species and go from there. I chose darkling beetles because I've heard they're easy to raise and breed, mealworms are readily available so I wouldn't have to order anything online, and I've heard that their antics are very fun to watch!

My plan is to get some mealworms from the pet store (the kind that are alive but "hibernating" because they are kept in a fridge) and raise them to make a beautiful beetle display tank. There's lots of info regarding raising mealworms online, but it seems it's all geared towards raising them as feeders instead of display pets. I don't want to just put them in a tub with some food- I want to get a nice glass enclosure and make it into a lovely display that I can sit down and watch.

How would I go about this? For example:

1. There are both mealworms and "Superworms" on the market. Which would be a better choice to start out with? Don't they look pretty much the same when they grow into beetles? Does their lifecycles or lifespans differ?
2. Mealworms often sorted by size- small, medium, or large. Does it matter what size I get? They're also called "vita-bugs", which I assume merely means they have been fed vitamins to be more nutritious feeders. Is that in any way detrimental if you plan on raising them to adults?
3. Display suggestions! Can they be housed on sand? If not, what's a good substrate? What size container to start out with? What is needed to encourage reproducing?
4. General care- what/when to feed, humidity and temperature, etc.

I know it's a lot of questions, so if anyone can help me with even just one or two questions, it would be hugely appreciated! Plus I'm sure there are questions I didn't think to ask, so any info at all would help! Thank you

 

[draconisj4]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the beetles you get from mealworms you buy as feeders live very long and I think the beetles from superworms have an even shorter life span. I've tried to raise them but had such a mite problem I gave up on it. You keep them in a well ventilated container at room temperature with dry bran or oats as substrate and a buried carrot for moisture. I'll leave it to the people that actually raise them to answer in more detail.

I've had much better luck with the darklings I've gotten from BIC, raised differently from feeder mealworms. First pic is a newly emerged Nyctoporis carinata bred here and second is a fresh unidentified large darkling and pupae also bred here.

 

[PidderPeets]

I've raised a few superworms to adulthood and am trying to get a few more to adulthood so I can see about breeding them, but I've never worked with mealworms. I'll answer what I can, but leave more specifics about mealworms to others.

1. There are both mealworms and "Superworms" on the market. Which would be a better choice to start out with? Don't they look pretty much the same when they grow into beetles? Does their lifecycles or lifespans differ?

I don't know if one would be easier than the other, but I prefer superworms. They do both look very similar. I believe mealworms can be kept together when they pupate, but superworms won't pupate unless separated. I also believe the mealworms are kept at cooler temps to prevent them from pupating. Mealworms can survive being kept at cooler temps, but superworms cannot. Never put superworms in the fridge because they'll die.

2. Mealworms often sorted by size- small, medium, or large. Does it matter what size I get? They're also called "vita-bugs", which I assume merely means they have been fed vitamins to be more nutritious feeders. Is that in any way detrimental if you plan on raising them to adults?

The only relevance the size of the larvae has to you is how soon you want adults. The smaller sizes are lower instars than the large sizes. So the larger ones are closer to adulthood. If this is the "Vita-bugs" you're referring to, it's just a brand:

They will still reach adulthood without issue.

3. Display suggestions! Can they be housed on sand? If not, what's a good substrate? What size container to start out with? What is needed to encourage reproducing?

I keep my 3 adults on cocofiber. I don't know if sand would work for these guys or not. I originally had two in a 16 oz container with no issues, but I literally just moved them to a small kritter keeper (it's maybe 3in x 6in) to include the new adult I have. They don't have massive size requirements, so you can house quite a bit in smaller enclosures without issue. I haven't bred them yet, so I don't know any specific tricks to encourage it, but I would suspect an ample supply of food and warm temps would encourage it.

4. General care- what/when to feed, humidity and temperature, etc.

I always give my superworm larvae and adults a constant supply of food. The substrate in the containers of superworms you can buy works as food and will get them through to adulthood. I mainly buy superworms for feeders, so I just save the substrate from empty containers and use it to feed the adults I have. But specifically, food for adults and larvae is oat meal, bran, wheat germ, and perhaps a few other similar things I'm forgetting. They'll also eat a slice of potato or carrot on occasion for moisture. I've honestly never needed a source of moisture for the larvae (I buy the large ones, so they're pretty much ready to pupate at that point), but I use water gel beads for the adults. I keep the substrate dry and keep them at room temperature, and they reach adulthood with no issues

 

[Chimera]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the beetles you get from mealworms you buy as feeders live very long and I think the beetles from superworms have an even shorter life span. I've tried to raise them but had such a mite problem I gave up on it. You keep them in a well ventilated container at room temperature with dry bran or oats as substrate and a buried carrot for moisture. I'll leave it to the people that actually raise them to answer in more detail.

I've had much better luck with the darklings I've gotten from BIC, raised differently from feeder mealworms. First pic is a newly emerged Nyctoporis carinata bred here and second is a fresh unidentified large darkling and pupae also bred here.
View attachment 275187 View attachment 275188

Are the pet store feeders really raised that differently? Either way, I do have Bugs in Cyberspace bookmarked and will order from there if I can't find an alternative. Thanks for your feedback!

I've raised a few superworms to adulthood and am trying to get a few more to adulthood so I can see about breeding them, but I've never worked with mealworms. I'll answer what I can, but leave more specifics about mealworms to others.

I don't know if one would be easier than the other, but I prefer superworms. They do both look very similar. I believe mealworms can be kept together when they pupate, but superworms won't pupate unless separated. I also believe the mealworms are kept at cooler temps to prevent them from pupating. Mealworms can survive being kept at cooler temps, but superworms cannot. Never put superworms in the fridge because they'll die.

Huh, interesting. Do you know why they don't pupate if together? I have heard the can be much more aggressive than mealworms, is that why they don't pupate- so they can defend themselves? And how would you separate them? Just deli cups with lots of food?

The only relevance the size of the larvae has to you is how soon you want adults. The smaller sizes are lower instars than the large sizes. So the larger ones are closer to adulthood. If this is the "Vita-bugs" you're referring to, it's just a brand: View attachment 275190

They will still reach adulthood without issue.

Ohhh, that size thing makes sense, haha. I would get large ones then. And oh, it's just a brand. That's good to know!

I keep my 3 adults on cocofiber. I don't know if sand would work for these guys or not. I originally had two in a 16 oz container with no issues, but I literally just moved them to a small kritter keeper (it's maybe 3in x 6in) to include the new adult I have. They don't have massive size requirements, so you can house quite a bit in smaller enclosures without issue. I haven't bred them yet, so I don't know any specific tricks to encourage it, but I would suspect an ample supply of food and warm temps would encourage it.

Do you keep them on cocofiber for humidity purposes, or do they like burrowing or something? Because if they don't need a lot of humidity, I feel like sand would be fine. I'll have to research it more! And sounds like they don't need a lot of space. There's no issue with starting them out in something more roomy though, right? Since they aren't carnivores and don't need to be able to find prey. Are they much of climbers? Just trying to figure out how to make a nice-looking cage that is stimulating for them

I always give my superworm larvae and adults a constant supply of food. The substrate in the containers of superworms you can buy works as food and will get them through to adulthood. I mainly buy superworms for feeders, so I just save the substrate from empty containers and use it to feed the adults I have. But specifically, food for adults and larvae is oat meal, bran, wheat germ, and perhaps a few other similar things I'm forgetting. They'll also eat a slice of potato or carrot on occasion for moisture. I've honestly never needed a source of moisture for the larvae (I buy the large ones, so they're pretty much ready to pupate at that point), but I use water gel beads for the adults. I keep the substrate dry and keep them at room temperature, and they reach adulthood with no issues

Okay, that makes things simple. I really appreciate your help!

 

[draconisj4]

Are the pet store feeders really raised that differently? Either way, I do have Bugs in Cyberspace bookmarked and will order from there if I can't find an alternative. Thanks for your feedback!

Yes, they are. Not all darkling beetles can be raised the same way, some need special conditions to pupate. The larvae I have raised to adulthood require a quite moist area in addition to a quite dry area in order for them to thrive. It's been pretty much trial and error, my method has worked with some species but not with others. I did try raising several species like feeder mealworms and the larvae all died.

 

[PidderPeets]

Huh, interesting. Do you know why they don't pupate if together? I have heard the can be much more aggressive than mealworms, is that why they don't pupate- so they can defend themselves? And how would you separate them? Just deli cups with lots of food?

I'm not certain, but I suspect at least part of it is because the other larvae will cannibalize the pupa and even fresh adults. I've seen larvae eating each other alive, so I just assume they're savages. Separate them by taking out some of the largest superworms (or just separate all of them if you want them all to turn to adults) and put them in their own separate container. I have spare 2oz deli cups, so I just put them in those, but people also use segmented tackle or jewelry boxes for large numbers of larvae (I bought one a while back for that purpose, but have yet to use it). While fact checking my info, I actually just read that when trying to get the larvae to pupate, they shouldn't be put with any food at all, so I'm trying that with one of the larva I took out to see if it pupates any faster than another one I took out at the same time.

Do you keep them on cocofiber for humidity purposes, or do they like burrowing or something? Because if they don't need a lot of humidity, I feel like sand would be fine. I'll have to research it more! And sounds like they don't need a lot of space. There's no issue with starting them out in something more roomy though, right? Since they aren't carnivores and don't need to be able to find prey. Are they much of climbers? Just trying to figure out how to make a nice-looking cage that is stimulating for them

I just used coco fiber because that's what I had around. I keep it dry so it's not for any humidity. They should be alright in a larger enclosure. I've never put any climbing material in with my beetles, but it wouldn't hurt to try it out.

 

[Chimera]

Yes, they are. Not all darkling beetles can be raised the same way, some need special conditions to pupate. The larvae I have raised to adulthood require a quite moist area in addition to a quite dry area in order for them to thrive. It's been pretty much trial and error, my method has worked with some species but not with others. I did try raising several species like feeder mealworms and the larvae all died.

Aww, that's too bad Fortunately, mealworms and superworms are pretty cheap, so lots of trial and error is feasible. Also, found this page: http://reptile-parrots.com/forums/s...ealworms-and-Superworms-and-how-to-Breed-them

According to that, superworm beetles live significantly longer than mealworm beetles. There doesn't seem to be a consensus on lifespans anywhere....

I'm not certain, but I suspect at least part of it is because the other larvae will cannibalize the pupa and even fresh adults. I've seen larvae eating each other alive, so I just assume they're savages. Separate them by taking out some of the largest superworms (or just separate all of them if you want them all to turn to adults) and put them in their own separate container. I have spare 2oz deli cups, so I just put them in those, but people also use segmented tackle or jewelry boxes for large numbers of larvae (I bought one a while back for that purpose, but have yet to use it). While fact checking my info, I actually just read that when trying to get the larvae to pupate, they shouldn't be put with any food at all, so I'm trying that with one of the larva I took out to see if it pupates any faster than another one I took out at the same time.

View attachment 275212

View attachment 275213

I just used coco fiber because that's what I had around. I keep it dry so it's not for any humidity. They should be alright in a larger enclosure. I've never put any climbing material in with my beetles, but it wouldn't hurt to try it out.

Yeah, the employee I asked said that some superworms even bite humans A jewelry box is a really good idea! Maybe I'll have to experiment too and see how amount of provided food affects pupation time. And hmm, okay. Let construction of the darkling mansion begin!

I found this page, which has a lot of useful info: http://reptile-parrots.com/forums/s...ealworms-and-Superworms-and-how-to-Breed-them

What's your opinion on the life expectancy section on superworms? Do the ties listed sound about right?

 

[PidderPeets]

Yeah, the employee I asked said that some superworms even bite humans

I've never been bitten (I use tongs so they don't get the chance ), but it wouldn't surprise me at all if they could bite humans. And hurt! They can kill perfectly healthy slings, and freshly molted adult tarantulas, so I would always treat them with caution.

What's your opinion on the life expectancy section on superworms? Do the ties listed sound about right?

I'll have to look through my pictures to see exactly when my first superworm reached adulthood, but I can tell you with certainty that it's been well over a few months and it shows absolutely no signs of slowing down. Other darkling beetles can live a few years as adults, so I wouldn't rule it out for these guys.

Edit: well the first picture I was able to find of any of my beetles was from December, so they live at least 5 months But as I said earlier, mine show no signs of slowing down or aging, so they've probably still got quite a bit of time left

 

[Chimera]

I've never been bitten (I use tongs so they don't get the chance ), but it wouldn't surprise me at all if they could bite humans. And hurt! They can kill perfectly healthy slings, and freshly molted adult tarantulas, so I would always treat them with caution.

I'll have to look through my pictures to see exactly when my first superworm reached adulthood, but I can tell you with certainty that it's been well over a few months and it shows absolutely no signs of slowing down. Other darkling beetles can live a few years as adults, so I wouldn't rule it out for these guys.

Edit: well the first picture I was able to find of any of my beetles was from December, so they live at least 5 months But as I said earlier, mine show no signs of slowing down or aging, so they've probably still got quite a bit of time left

Oh man, they can kill tarantulas? That's one savage worm!

And that's awesome! The longer lifespan, the better.

I'm feeling much more prepared now, but I do have a couple more nitpicky questions...

1. You said if you buy the large superworms, they're pretty much ready to pupate at that point- is it matter of days? Weeks?
2. I would love to hear about the result of the experiment with food vs. no food for pupation. Can you shoot me a PM or something when you have anything?
3. For that matter, if any more questions come up, can I PM you? I was a little worried that I wouldn't find anyone with experience raising feeders to adults, but you've been enormously helpful!

EDIT: Also, water gel beads? Like cricket quencher? Or the stuff you get at craft and floral stores?

 

[PidderPeets]

Oh man, they can kill tarantulas? That's one savage worm!

There's a video on YouTube of a woman who's G. pulchra sling was killed by either a superworm or mealworm, but I think it was a superworm. There's a reason people suggest prekilling them with smaller Ts. I live feed them to anything with a 2 inch DLS or more, but I watch until I know for a fact that the T has the superworm.

1. You said if you buy the large superworms, they're pretty much ready to pupate at that point- is it matter of days? Weeks?

I would say weeks, but I've honestly never separated any right off the bat. They remain as pupa for about 2 weeks before eclosing as adults, and I'd estimate that they spend a week or two in a prepupal state (they still look like the larva, but the pupal form is developing underneath the larval form, so they're incapable of any movement besides erratic flailing when disturbed. They eventually molt, shedding the larval form and emerging as pupa)

2. I would love to hear about the result of the experiment with food vs. no food for pupation. Can you shoot me a PM or something when you have anything?
3. For that matter, if any more questions come up, can I PM you? I was a little worried that I wouldn't find anyone with experience raising feeders to adults, but you've been enormously helpful!

Absolutely! I'll PM you if the superworm being kept without food pupates before the other one. And feel free to PM me with any questions. As I said before with the flower beetles, I can't garauntee I'll have all the answers, but I can help in any way I can

Also, water gel beads? Like cricket quencher? Or the stuff you get at craft and floral stores?

I use the kinds you can get from craft/floral stores. They're essentially what they use in cricket quencher, but without the added supplements (which are totally unnecessary anyway) and for literally a fraction of the cost. I bought a small bag online from Walmart for like $6. I've barely even made a dent in the bag, yet I've refilled one of those large conainters of cricket quencher I have twice now. Plus, they're super fun to play with even you don't use them for your pets

 

[Beedrill]

Well if you are interested in a display species, I would certainly go with Superworms (Darkling Beetle). While mealworm beetles are significantly easier to raise, the Darkling Beetle is larger, lives longer, and looks quite nice.
It is worth mentioning that there are many species of Darkling Beetle (like 20,000), but the one that is sold in pet stores is usually Zophobas morio which is a tropical species native to Central and South America. If you get them from other places, they may be a different species and my advise may not be valid.

Zophobas morio
I think an ideal display setup would be a 1 gallon aquarium/terrarium with a screen top lid. If you intend to have a huge colony at any point, maybe go with a 5-10 gallon in stead. I would use 2-4 inches of coconut fiber as substrate, and a few pieces of wood/logs/bark for the adults to use as hides. Other substrates would work, but coco fiber is usually the safest and in my opinion its visually appealing. If you want to have plants in the enclosure, use plastic ones. Any live vegetation will be consumed...
I would start with about six newly emerged adults and keep them at around 80 degrees. This will allow them to reproduce. They will survive at room temp, but will be unable to reproduce. Be sure to keep them well fed as they will eat eggs if hungry. They don't seem to be sensitive to light, so a 60-100 watt lamp should do the trick. Or you can go with a heat mat or ceramic heater.
I always feed mine fruit/veggie scraps this way they get both food and water from one source. However, I could definitely see how watering a corner of the terrarium occasionally could help them to prosper. For protein you can go with basically any commercial fish food. Dust it with calcium powder before placing it in the enclosure.
When it comes to keeping the culture going, once you start to see large worms digging around in the substrate or coming to the surface, take them out and put them in some sort of plastic container in a completely dark place (as said above). After a week or so, they will pupate and become adults in another two weeks. I usually let the freshly emerged adults sit in their container until they start to turn dark brown, just in case the larva back in the enclosure are hungry.

I only raise mine as feeders so they do not have many of the luxuries that I mentioned above, but they are doing just fine. The hardest thing about them, is their nasty tendency of eating each other.
Hope this helps.

 

[Chimera]

There's a video on YouTube of a woman who's G. pulchra sling was killed by either a superworm or mealworm, but I think it was a superworm. There's a reason people suggest prekilling them with smaller Ts. I live feed them to anything with a 2 inch DLS or more, but I watch until I know for a fact that the T has the superworm.

Man, that's creepy but makes you have some level of respect for the worms....

I would say weeks, but I've honestly never separated any right off the bat. They remain as pupa for about 2 weeks before eclosing as adults, and I'd estimate that they spend a week or two in a prepupal state (they still look like the larva, but the pupal form is developing underneath the larval form, so they're incapable of any movement besides erratic flailing when disturbed. They eventually molt, shedding the larval form and emerging as pupa)

Hmm, okay. This whole thing will be an interesting experiment

Absolutely! I'll PM you if the superworm being kept without food pupates before the other one. And feel free to PM me with any questions. As I said before with the flower beetles, I can't garauntee I'll have all the answers, but I can help in any way I can

Awesome, thanks so much!

I use the kinds you can get from craft/floral stores. They're essentially what they use in cricket quencher, but without the added supplements (which are totally unnecessary anyway) and for literally a fraction of the cost. I bought a small bag online from Walmart for like $6. I've barely even made a dent in the bag, yet I've refilled one of those large conainters of cricket quencher I have twice now. Plus, they're super fun to play with even you don't use them for your pets

Oh, handy! And haha, is it weird that I've wanted to fill a swimming pool with those things and jump in?

Well if you are interested in a display species, I would certainly go with Superworms (Darkling Beetle). While mealworm beetles are significantly easier to raise, the Darkling Beetle is larger, lives longer, and looks quite nice.
It is worth mentioning that there are many species of Darkling Beetle (like 20,000), but the one that is sold in pet stores is usually Zophobas morio which is a tropical species native to Central and South America. If you get them from other places, they may be a different species and my advise may not be valid.

Zophobas morio
I think an ideal display setup would be a 1 gallon aquarium/terrarium with a screen top lid. If you intend to have a huge colony at any point, maybe go with a 5-10 gallon in stead. I would use 2-4 inches of coconut fiber as substrate, and a few pieces of wood/logs/bark for the adults to use as hides. Other substrates would work, but coco fiber is usually the safest and in my opinion its visually appealing. If you want to have plants in the enclosure, use plastic ones. Any live vegetation will be consumed...
I would start with about six newly emerged adults and keep them at around 80 degrees. This will allow them to reproduce. They will survive at room temp, but will be unable to reproduce. Be sure to keep them well fed as they will eat eggs if hungry. They don't seem to be sensitive to light, so a 60-100 watt lamp should do the trick. Or you can go with a heat mat or ceramic heater.
I always feed mine fruit/veggie scraps this way they get both food and water from one source. However, I could definitely see how watering a corner of the terrarium occasionally could help them to prosper. For protein you can go with basically any commercial fish food. Dust it with calcium powder before placing it in the enclosure.
When it comes to keeping the culture going, once you start to see large worms digging around in the substrate or coming to the surface, take them out and put them in some sort of plastic container in a completely dark place (as said above). After a week or so, they will pupate and become adults in another two weeks. I usually let the freshly emerged adults sit in their container until they start to turn dark brown, just in case the larva back in the enclosure are hungry.

I only raise mine as feeders so they do not have many of the luxuries that I mentioned above, but they are doing just fine. The hardest thing about them, is their nasty tendency of eating each other.
Hope this helps.

Ooh, thanks for all that info! I'm curious, why does it need to be dark for them to pupate?

That leads another question I have for both of you.

@PidderPeets @Beedrill So I want enough beetles for a nice display tank, but I know superworms are extremely prolific and I don't want hundreds and hundreds of beetles. Any ideas on how I could control the population? The page I linked earlier said to transfer the adults to a new enclosure every two to four weeks so they don't eat any eggs laid in the substrate. However, this sounds like a huge pain for a display tank that will have decor and such. Could I just keep them all in the same tank until I see larva surface and only collect those ones for pupation? Kinda let natural selection do its job? I don't want to be inhumane, but at the same time, I don't want to spend tons of time collecting eggs and larva only to have to put most of them in the fridge to gently kill them for population control. On that note, if I do end up with too many worms, would the fridge be the most humane way to cut down on numbers? I know I could sell them as feeders, but I'm not sure how I feel about that... Finally, would there be a way to control population through the substrate? Most superworm-rearing guides advise a substrate of wheat bran or something similar so the the larva can feed. Would a substrate of coco fiber or a cocofiber/sand mix discourage egg laying a bit?

 

[PidderPeets]

And haha, is it weird that I've wanted to fill a swimming pool with those things and jump in?

Trust me, I get it. I'm honestly a little happy when I drop one on the floor and can't feed it to my bugs (I probably can, I'm just overly cautious because I don't know what else has been on my floor), because that means it's fair game for me. They're squishy and fun. Oh, and they bounce!

Any ideas on how I could control the population?

If @Beedrill is right about them needing to be in the 80 degree range to breed, it'd be as simple as keeping them below that range. When/if you wanted to encourage some breeding to maintain the population, you'd just want to raise the temps for a few months until you noticed eggs or larvae

Could I just keep them all in the same tank until I see larva surface and only collect those ones for pupation? Kinda let natural selection do its job?

That'd be fine. The main reason it was suggested that the adults be removed every few weeks is because in that method, the goal is to save every larvae possible. That's obviously preferable when breeding as feeders, but if you just want a small population as pets, it's not as important

On that note, if I do end up with too many worms, would the fridge be the most humane way to cut down on numbers?

Ultimately, the fastest (and therefore I think techically the most humane) way is to crush their heads. But I know I don't have the heart for that so I can't blame others for not doing it either. Freezing them would probably be the next best thing.

Putting them in the fridge works, but my experience with that was terrible because I just couldn't get the thing to die. I had one in the fridge for at least an hour multiple times because I wanted to kill it so I could cut it up for some slings, but it kept looking dead but would start moving again as soon as it warmed up. So if you wanted to kill them in the fridge, you'd probably need to put them in at least overnight.

It might sound awful, but I personally opt for drowning them. It can still take a long time, and just like with the fridge method, they can also seem dead without actually being dead, but it's certainly faster than the fridge. But because I need them to be a reasonable temp to feed to my slings, I can't use the fridge or freezer method.

I know I could sell them as feeders, but I'm not sure how I feel about that...

There's nothing wrong with selling extras as feeders, but if you're uncomfortable doing that, you could at least throw the ones you already killed outside for some type of wildlife to eat. That way they're not completely going to waste like they would if you just tossed them in the garbage. But that's just my own "waste nothing" mentality kicking in. Lol. I would just make certain that they're actually dead if you go that route.

Finally, would there be a way to control population through the substrate? Most superworm-rearing guides advise a substrate of wheat bran or something similar so the the larva can feed. Would a substrate of coco fiber or a cocofiber/sand mix discourage egg laying a bit?

It would probably at least help discourage breeding a bit. Many animals (including insects) won't breed if conditions aren't optimal for the survival of the young. I don't know if it would prevent the breeding altogether though. You have to keep in mind that it's not like there's just piles of wheat bran in the wild, so that's not 100% crucial to egg-laying

 

[Chimera]

Trust me, I get it. I'm honestly a little happy when I drop one on the floor and can't feed it to my bugs (I probably can, I'm just overly cautious because I don't know what else has been on my floor), because that means it's fair game for me. They're squishy and fun. Oh, and they bounce!

They bounce?! Well now I know the first thing I'll be doing with one then So just to clarify, even like the cheap water beads from a dollar store are okay? (Like these? https://www.dollartree.com/Floral-Hydration-Clear-Gel-Beads-11-4-oz-Jars/p335525/index.pro)

If @Beedrill is right about them needing to be in the 80 degree range to breed, it'd be as simple as keeping them below that range. When/if you wanted to encourage some breeding to maintain the population, you'd just want to raise the temps for a few months until you noticed eggs or larvae

Ah, that's a good point!

@Beedrill What size/wattage of heat mat would you recommend for a smallish plastic tank? Something along the lines of the largest option here: https://www.petsmart.com/reptile/ha...reat-choice-critter-reptile-tote-5195093.html Would it be better to put it on the bottom or the side? Also, would you recommend a digital thermometer strip or anything to track the temperature?

Also, something I should have asked earlier. You said coco fiber is safest, why is that? I really like the idea of natural colored sand because you'd be able to see the beetles themselves more easily, plus I just like the look of very arid tanks better. Or would sand be a little too inhospitable for egg laying and none would survive?

That'd be fine. The main reason it was suggested that the adults be removed every few weeks is because in that method, the goal is to save every larvae possible. That's obviously preferable when breeding as feeders, but if you just want a small population as pets, it's not as important

Oh, okay. That makes it simple then.

Ultimately, the fastest (and therefore I think techically the most humane) way is to crush their heads. But I know I don't have the heart for that so I can't blame others for not doing it either. Freezing them would probably be the next best thing.

Putting them in the fridge works, but my experience with that was terrible because I just couldn't get the thing to die. I had one in the fridge for at least an hour multiple times because I wanted to kill it so I could cut it up for some slings, but it kept looking dead but would start moving again as soon as it warmed up. So if you wanted to kill them in the fridge, you'd probably need to put them in at least overnight.

It might sound awful, but I personally opt for drowning them. It can still take a long time, and just like with the fridge method, they can also seem dead without actually being dead, but it's certainly faster than the fridge. But because I need them to be a reasonable temp to feed to my slings, I can't use the fridge or freezer method.

Oh man, I don't think I could crush any heads

There's nothing wrong with selling extras as feeders, but if you're uncomfortable doing that, you could at least throw the ones you already killed outside for some type of wildlife to eat. That way they're not completely going to waste like they would if you just tossed them in the garbage. But that's just my own "waste nothing" mentality kicking in. Lol. I would just make certain that they're actually dead if you go that route.

Throwing them outside would be a good way to use them! Maybe I'll sell the extras as feeders, but first I'll just have to get a feel for how many extra I'll have.

It would probably at least help discourage breeding a bit. Many animals (including insects) won't breed if conditions aren't optimal for the survival of the young. I don't know if it would prevent the breeding altogether though. You have to keep in mind that it's not like there's just piles of wheat bran in the wild, so that's not 100% crucial to egg-laying

Haha, yep, I meant just to cut back on the egg laying

 

[Beedrill]

[QUOTE="Ooh, thanks for all that info! I'm curious, why does it need to be dark for them to pupate?

That leads another question I have for both of you.

@PidderPeets @Beedrill So I want enough beetles for a nice display tank, but I know superworms are extremely prolific and I don't want hundreds and hundreds of beetles. Any ideas on how I could control the population? The page I linked earlier said to transfer the adults to a new enclosure every two to four weeks so they don't eat any eggs laid in the substrate. However, this sounds like a huge pain for a display tank that will have decor and such. Could I just keep them all in the same tank until I see larva surface and only collect those ones for pupation? Kinda let natural selection do its job? I don't want to be inhumane, but at the same time, I don't want to spend tons of time collecting eggs and larva only to have to put most of them in the fridge to gently kill them for population control. On that note, if I do end up with too many worms, would the fridge be the most humane way to cut down on numbers? I know I could sell them as feeders, but I'm not sure how I feel about that... Finally, would there be a way to control population through the substrate? Most superworm-rearing guides advise a substrate of wheat bran or something similar so the the larva can feed. Would a substrate of coco fiber or a cocofiber/sand mix discourage egg laying a bit?[/QUOTE]

The larva will only pupate in the dark because in their natural habitat, they would pupate under debris or underground. Both places are completely dark so a completely dark surrounding will allow the superworms to feel safe enough to molt into pupae.

In regards to population control, I agree with what was said by @PidderPeets above. Just let the tank sit at room temp once you see your first larva start to burrow through the substrate.

As far as worrying about eggs getting eaten by the adults, they will only do this if there isn't enough food and moisture in the enclosure already.

I find the best strategy for getting rid of excess superworms while simultaneously not having to crush their heads (because I too, cannot do that to them) is to place them in the freezer (not the fridge) for about an hour. I have timed it to see exactly how long it takes them to parish, and most of them are dead by the 10-15 minute mark. The extra 45 minutes is just to be sure.
I would also say that I think throwing them outside under certain conditions would be fine, but I would literally just toss them into the back yard. I would place them in a shallow pan that they cannot climb out of and place the pan in an elevated area where birds are likely to see the worms wriggling around. This way, you ensure that the worms will not make it to adult hood and continue to reproduce outside their native range. Mind you, I do not think that they are capable of surviving in most areas of the US, but if you live in Florida, I would definitely not release them outside. You never know when a species can thrive in an unfamiliar setting and cause problems for other creatures.

[QUOTE="@Beedrill What size/wattage of heat mat would you recommend for a smallish plastic tank? Something along the lines of the largest option here: https://www.petsmart.com/reptile/ha...reat-choice-critter-reptile-tote-5195093.html Would it be better to put it on the bottom or the side? Also, would you recommend a digital thermometer strip or anything to track the temperature?

Also, something I should have asked earlier. You said coco fiber is safest, why is that? I really like the idea of natural colored sand because you'd be able to see the beetles themselves more easily, plus I just like the look of very arid tanks better. Or would sand be a little too inhospitable for egg laying and none would survive?[/QUOTE]

This heat mat would probably do the trick. (8w/10 gallon)
https://www.petsmart.com/reptile/en...andtrade-reptile-under-tank-heater-14819.html
If not, my personal preference for heating my colonies is a red light night heat lamp sold for use with reptiles.
I'm not sure if under the tank or on the side are better for the heat mat. I don't really use heat mats with my critters. I would experiment to see which one yields a more constant temperature. And yes, I would recommend having some sort of thermometer to roughly gauge how stable the temperature is in your enclosure.

Cocofiber is extremely versatile and it is not too coarse. It can either be kept completely dry or made to be completely moist. In contrast, sand is very fine and grainy. Water cannot really be retained by sand for a long period of time. Furthermore, sand is sometimes detrimental to the health of the animals. It can get lodged in the joints of arthropods and actually cause microscopic cuts to more sensitive areas. It isn't completely unusable, and mixing it with cocofiber is very common, but you have to make sure you are dealing with a creature that has specially adapted to sandy conditions if you want to use only sand in the enclosure. If you get desert Darkling Beetles, it may be just fine to use sand. I only have experience with the tropical variety, so I recommended cocofiber. Another boost to cocofiber is that your superworms may actually nibble on it for food. They will eat almost anything. I even had one chew it's way out of a solo cup once. I think the plastic for Critter Keepers it too hard for that though. One other thing, if you do go with sand, I would at least recommend using one of the Calcium Fortified Pet store sands that they sell for reptiles. These tend to be a little chunkier and softer.

 

[Chimera]

The larva will only pupate in the dark because in their natural habitat, they would pupate under debris or underground. Both places are completely dark so a completely dark surrounding will allow the superworms to feel safe enough to molt into pupae.

Ah, that makes sense.

In regards to population control, I agree with what was said by @PidderPeets above. Just let the tank sit at room temp once you see your first larva start to burrow through the substrate.

When you say "first" larva, do you mean the larva I get originally, or the first larva produced by the adults? Because I was just planning on buying large superworms and then putting them in individual containers (some with food, some without, for experimental purposes). But now that I think about it... is that too early? Should I leave them in the cup longer? How do I know when they're ready to pupate and I should separate them?

As far as worrying about eggs getting eaten by the adults, they will only do this if there isn't enough food and moisture in the enclosure already.

Okay, now I'm a bit confused. Isn't the substrate supposed to be kept dry? Should I just provide some humidity with a sponge or large piece of potato or something?

I find the best strategy for getting rid of excess superworms while simultaneously not having to crush their heads (because I too, cannot do that to them) is to place them in the freezer (not the fridge) for about an hour. I have timed it to see exactly how long it takes them to parish, and most of them are dead by the 10-15 minute mark. The extra 45 minutes is just to be sure.
I would also say that I think throwing them outside under certain conditions would be fine, but I would literally just toss them into the back yard. I would place them in a shallow pan that they cannot climb out of and place the pan in an elevated area where birds are likely to see the worms wriggling around. This way, you ensure that the worms will not make it to adult hood and continue to reproduce outside their native range. Mind you, I do not think that they are capable of surviving in most areas of the US, but if you live in Florida, I would definitely not release them outside. You never know when a species can thrive in an unfamiliar setting and cause problems for other creatures.

Ha, I'm in Utah. No way they would survive our winters That's a good idea though. I like watching birds so it could be a good way to attract them to my yard!

This heat mat would probably do the trick. (8w/10 gallon)
https://www.petsmart.com/reptile/en...andtrade-reptile-under-tank-heater-14819.html
If not, my personal preference for heating my colonies is a red light night heat lamp sold for use with reptiles.
I'm not sure if under the tank or on the side are better for the heat mat. I don't really use heat mats with my critters. I would experiment to see which one yields a more constant temperature. And yes, I would recommend having some sort of thermometer to roughly gauge how stable the temperature is in your enclosure.

The reason I specified a heat mat was because the enclosure I'd get would probably have a plastic ventilated lid, and I was worried a heat lamp above or on it would melt it. Are red light night heat lamps cool enough that it wouldn't be an issue? If so, any brands you'd recommend?

Cocofiber is extremely versatile and it is not too coarse. It can either be kept completely dry or made to be completely moist. In contrast, sand is very fine and grainy. Water cannot really be retained by sand for a long period of time. Furthermore, sand is sometimes detrimental to the health of the animals. It can get lodged in the joints of arthropods and actually cause microscopic cuts to more sensitive areas. It isn't completely unusable, and mixing it with cocofiber is very common, but you have to make sure you are dealing with a creature that has specially adapted to sandy conditions if you want to use only sand in the enclosure. If you get desert Darkling Beetles, it may be just fine to use sand. I only have experience with the tropical variety, so I recommended cocofiber. Another boost to cocofiber is that your superworms may actually nibble on it for food. They will eat almost anything. I even had one chew it's way out of a solo cup once. I think the plastic for Critter Keepers it too hard for that though. One other thing, if you do go with sand, I would at least recommend using one of the Calcium Fortified Pet store sands that they sell for reptiles. These tend to be a little chunkier and softer.

Ah, okay. Maybe I'll mix Calci-Sand with coco fiber. I actually also came across this: https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petco...imagitarium-desert-dwellings-millet-substrate. I like the look of it, it seems like it would be comfortable, and if a superworm would eat a plastic cup, I feel like it would definitely munch on millet. What do you think?

As always, thanks for your thorough answers!

 

[Dave Jay]

Washed river sand has rounded grains so that would be a safe option if you want sand. I use it in my fish tanks, I buy it from the landscape supply yard where it is sold by the tonne. Filling up a boot (trunk) load of buckets is never over $5.
Personally I'd opt for the coco peat because despite being able to hold more moisture it is great at absorbing moisture when dry which stops vegetables going mouldy. I use it with wood roaches as I have them in a natural looking setting with bark and leaves.
I keep mealworms on rolled oats which are also absorbant. When pieces of carrot are added they are dragged down into the oats by the worms I guess. Sifting through the oats at the feeding end I find small worms eating carrot then deeper desiccated remains.
When vegetables are first placed on the surface the beetles swarm them but by morning the veggies like carrot, pumpkin, apple and potato have been 'sucked' down into the oats but leafy greens are shredded and drying out.
While sand doesn't hold much moisture it also doesn't absorb it, I would worry that veggies would go mouldy, but I don't know if the worms would find it in a bowl. Also, I assume, I don't know, that eggs are laid on the solid chunks of veggies to utilise the food and moisture, perhaps eggs would be laid in damp substrate I really don't know. I guess you are in a position to find out, why not set up both mealworms and superworms a few different ways and find out what works best?

 

[Chimera]

Washed river sand has rounded grains so that would be a safe option if you want sand. I use it in my fish tanks, I buy it from the landscape supply yard where it is sold by the tonne. Filling up a boot (trunk) load of buckets is never over $5.

Good to know, thanks!

Personally I'd opt for the coco peat because despite being able to hold more moisture it is great at absorbing moisture when dry which stops vegetables going mouldy. I use it with wood roaches as I have them in a natural looking setting with bark and leaves.
I keep mealworms on rolled oats which are also absorbant. When pieces of carrot are added they are dragged down into the oats by the worms I guess. Sifting through the oats at the feeding end I find small worms eating carrot then deeper desiccated remains.
When vegetables are first placed on the surface the beetles swarm them but by morning the veggies like carrot, pumpkin, apple and potato have been 'sucked' down into the oats but leafy greens are shredded and drying out.
While sand doesn't hold much moisture it also doesn't absorb it, I would worry that veggies would go mouldy, but I don't know if the worms would find it in a bowl. Also, I assume, I don't know, that eggs are laid on the solid chunks of veggies to utilise the food and moisture, perhaps eggs would be laid in damp substrate I really don't know.

Ohhh I didn't even think of that. I was going to have a dish, but if the worms can't eat the substrate, they're going to have to get their nutrition from somewhere.... Well, if I selectively used heat and did not transfer the adults out every couple weeks to preserve the eggs, that would be two methods of population control, which would probably suffice. Maybe I should just keep the adults, any laid eggs, and larva all on rolled oats, or maybe wheat bran. I think they're both pretty cheap.

I guess you are in a position to find out, why not set up both mealworms and superworms a few different ways and find out what works best?

That's an idea... I probably wouldn't want two different display tanks though. Do you think it would be possible to keep mealworm beetles and superworm beetles together? I mean, they're both darkling species. Or would they crossbreed and I'd end up with sterile descendants?

On that note, it probably wouldn't be safe to have the superworm larva and mealworm larva together. If superworms are as savage as I hear, they mealworms wouldn't stand a chance... What do you think?

EDIT: Plus, when I found larva, could I tell them apart? Because if not, I'd have to assume they're all superworms and separate ALL of them.

 

[Beedrill]

When you say "first" larva, do you mean the larva I get originally, or the first larva produced by the adults? Because I was just planning on buying large superworms and then putting them in individual containers (some with food, some without, for experimental purposes). But now that I think about it... is that too early? Should I leave them in the cup longer? How do I know when they're ready to pupate and I should separate them?

Okay, now I'm a bit confused. Isn't the substrate supposed to be kept dry? Should I just provide some humidity with a sponge or large piece of potato or something?

Ha, I'm in Utah. No way they would survive our winters That's a good idea though. I like watching birds so it could be a good way to attract them to my yard!

The reason I specified a heat mat was because the enclosure I'd get would probably have a plastic ventilated lid, and I was worried a heat lamp above or on it would melt it. Are red light night heat lamps cool enough that it wouldn't be an issue? If so, any brands you'd recommend?

Ah, okay. Maybe I'll mix Calci-Sand with coco fiber. I actually also came across this: https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petco...imagitarium-desert-dwellings-millet-substrate. I like the look of it, it seems like it would be comfortable, and if a superworm would eat a plastic cup, I feel like it would definitely munch on millet. What do you think?

As always, thanks for your thorough answers!

When I say first larva, I mean the first one's the adults produce.

Yeah the substrate should be kept dry, I was meaning that the substrate will absorb moisture from the food just like @Dave Jay said. I just have a bad tendency to over explain things that should be simple, and under explain things that need more clarification.

Utah... yeah you can put them outside.

I keep my Darklings in a Critter Keeper and use the red lamp. The one I use is this:
https://www.chewy.com/exo-terra-inf...n38v8fL5WP6WnuPzYj8aAhEREALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
I'v never had an issue with the Keeper melting but I keep it about half a foot above the keeper.
Also, I was in Petsmart today and looked at the large Keeper in person, and I think that I was wrong about the size of heat mat. Go with one size smaller. (4w, 5 gallon)

And yeah the millet would be just fine! I didn't know they made that... gonna have to look into that for my Bearded Dragons.

 

[Beedrill]

Ohhh I didn't even think of that. I was going to have a dish, but if the worms can't eat the substrate, they're going to have to get their nutrition from somewhere.... Well, if I selectively used heat and did not transfer the adults out every couple weeks to preserve the eggs, that would be two methods of population control, which would probably suffice. Maybe I should just keep the adults, any laid eggs, and larva all on rolled oats, or maybe wheat bran. I think they're both pretty cheap.

That's an idea... I probably wouldn't want two different display tanks though. Do you think it would be possible to keep mealworm beetles and superworm beetles together? I mean, they're both darkling species. Or would they crossbreed and I'd end up with sterile descendants?

On that note, it probably wouldn't be safe to have the superworm larva and mealworm larva together. If superworms are as savage as I hear, they mealworms wouldn't stand a chance... What do you think?

EDIT: Plus, when I found larva, could I tell them apart? Because if not, I'd have to assume they're all superworms and separate ALL of them.

I know that a dish sounds more appealing to the eyes, but I would just go with placing the food on the substrate's surface. The worms will surface for food if necessary.

Actually, mealworms are from a different genus (Tenebrio), so I think crossbreeding would be very unlikely. Not to mention the massive size difference.
With a rich abundance of food and proper protein supplements, it is probably possible to keep both together. Though I think that for this plan to work well, you would be better off with a larger tank so that there is plenty of room for the two species to co-exist. Mealworms will reproduce significantly faster as well, so they may need to be culled every now and again if the superworms don't keep them in check. Also, the larva may be difficult to differentiate at a glance, it is possible. They will all start at a similar size and color, but superworms will start to turn dark brown/black toward their head and thorax. And after a month or so the difference will be quite obvious to you. Especially since superworms can max out at 2 inches long while a mealworm is lucky to hit 1 inch. Ultimately though, I think that putting the two species together, while possible, would demand more monitoring from you. If you're game for that, go for it! Embrace the challenge!

Also, you asked somewhere up above how to know when superworms need to be separated for pupation. Basically, just watch out for particullarly large/long worms. Pick them out and seclude them for a week. If they have mostly stopped moving and are in a "C" shape, they are ready to pupate and will do so in a few days. If they are still moving around like normal or shed their skin but do not turn into a pupa, they need more time to grow. Using this method, you will get almost no casualties. In my time I've only ever had two.