Rainbow dung beetle (Phanaeus vindex) question?

[Chimera]

So I am considering getting a few P. vindex. I probably will order a book on them to learn about the specifics of their care, but there's one question I have to know the answer to before I choose whether to get them or not.

They need dung to thrive and breed, obviously. My question is, how fresh does it have to be? Like could I use organic composted cow manure from Home Depot? I hear that composted manure doesn't smell. If it has to be fresh, how much do they need and how badly will it smell?

They are absolutely gorgeous animals, but I have a pretty sensitive sense of smell and don't want to get them if I can't provide a home...

 

[Danalemp1216]

Composted manure has already been decomposed (why it doesn't smell), and won't be useful to a dung beetle. I offered mine fresh dung once a week, they would quickly roll it up and bury it, once it is buried you shouldn't smell anything.

 

[Stardisk]

i have had 1 for a while, gave it fresh horse manure, they indeed will run around the tank with a ball, destroying everything in their way, creating a poop-smear on the edges of your tank, but yeah it's fun to watch

 

[Chimera]

Composted manure has already been decomposed (why it doesn't smell), and won't be useful to a dung beetle. I offered mine fresh dung once a week, they would quickly roll it up and bury it, once it is buried you shouldn't smell anything.

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for your reply!

i have had 1 for a while, gave it fresh horse manure, they indeed will run around the tank with a ball, destroying everything in their way, creating a poop-smear on the edges of your tank, but yeah it's fun to watch

Ha, that mental image I have heard that beetle tend to make very entertaining pets!

 

[Stardisk]

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for your reply!



Ha, that mental image I have heard that beetle tend to make very entertaining pets!

Yah and they are strong as fuck! Try to hold one captured covering him up between your hands (like you would press a snowball together), the force they use with their head is immense. I had flower beetles with horns once, beetles are way stronger then one thinks.

 

[Chimera]

Yah and they are strong as fuck! Try to hold one captured covering him up between your hands (like you would press a snowball together), the force they use with their head is immense. I had flower beetles with horns once, beetles are way stronger then one thinks.

That's way cool! I imagine they'd have to have a fair amount of strength to dig burrows. I've never owned beetles, do you think it's a bad idea to start out with dung beetles? Especially since they can fly, and that might make handling/containment difficult?

 

[Stardisk]

That's way cool! I imagine they'd have to have a fair amount of strength to dig burrows. I've never owned beetles, do you think it's a bad idea to start out with dung beetles? Especially since they can fly, and that might make handling/containment difficult?

Yeah, if you never owned a beetle, i'd say a dung beetle might not be a good starter. Unless you have a BIG tank and easy access to fresh manure, then it might be easy. I had 1 beetle in a 150x50x50cm tank and I found it way to small for it. It walked a LOT, and they walk pretty fast to if they want. TO me it seemed it clearly needed more space then I offered it, especially when it made a ball.
I can recommend keeping flower beetles at first.
They are also a lot of fun, easier to take care of and easier to get your hands on.
google:
-pachnoda
-eudicella
-smaragdesthes
these are all beetles you can keep together (done it myself), maybe this is not what you are looking for though, I don't know..

 

[Chimera]

Yeah, if you never owned a beetle, i'd say a dung beetle might not be a good starter. Unless you have a BIG tank and easy access to fresh manure, then it might be easy. I had 1 beetle in a 150x50x50cm tank and I found it way to small for it. It walked a LOT, and they walk pretty fast to if they want. TO me it seemed it clearly needed more space then I offered it, especially when it made a ball.
I can recommend keeping flower beetles at first.
They are also a lot of fun, easier to take care of and easier to get your hands on.
google:
-pachnoda
-eudicella
-smaragdesthes
these are all beetles you can keep together (done it myself), maybe this is not what you are looking for though, I don't know..

Oh. My. Gosh. All of those genera are gorgeous!!! Especially Smaragdesthes africana oertzeni! The only flower beetles I've ever seen for sale are the Gymnetis caseyi on Bugs in Cyberspace. Do you have any idea of where I could get my hands on any of the genera you mentioned?

 

[PidderPeets]

Oh. My. Gosh. All of those genera are gorgeous!!! Especially Smaragdesthes africana oertzeni! The only flower beetles I've ever seen for sale are the Gymnetis caseyi on Bugs in Cyberspace. Do you have any idea of where I could get my hands on any of the genera you mentioned?

Anyone who knows can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can get any of those in the US. Most non-native beetles aren't legal for the general population due to concerns that they'll become pests. It's a somewhat annoying law, because it's a blanket law that even includes species that only feed on decaying material as larvae and wouldn't be capable of serious damage to plant life as adults. As far as I'm aware, only certain Goliathus sp. are legal in the US currently, and even then, they're not easy to come by.

Still, there are some quite beautiful US native species you can obtain. Cotinis nitida, Chrysina gloriosa, and Gymnetis caseyi are all beautiful species that are easy enough for a beginner. Bugsincyberspace frequently sells C. gloriosa and G. caseyi larvae.

 

[Chimera]

Anyone who knows can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can get any of those in the US. Most non-native beetles aren't legal for the general population due to concerns that they'll become pests. It's a somewhat annoying law, because it's a blanket law that even includes species that only feed on decaying material as larvae and wouldn't be capable of serious damage to plant life as adults. As far as I'm aware, only certain Goliathus sp. are legal in the US currently, and even then, they're not easy to come by.

Still, there are some quite beautiful US native species you can obtain. Cotinis nitida, Chrysina gloriosa, and Gymnetis caseyi are all beautiful species that are easy enough for a beginner. Bugsincyberspace frequently sells C. gloriosa and G. caseyi larvae.

Aww, darn. Those species that you mentioned are beautiful though! I guess one thing that drew me to rainbow dung beetles is that I've read they only take a few months to pupate, while other species like D. tityus take much longer, and then only live a few months. Do flower beetles generally grow into adults fairly quickly (like in 6 months or less)?

 

[PidderPeets]

Aww, darn. Those species that you mentioned are beautiful though! I guess one thing that drew me to rainbow dung beetles is that I've read they only take a few months to pupate, while other species like D. tityus take much longer, and then only live a few months. Do flower beetles generally grow into adults fairly quickly (like in 6 months or less)?

I'm still waiting on my 5 D. tityus larvae to pupate, so I know it's a bit of a waiting game. On the plus side, you just have to set them up and you can forget about them for a few months when you need to make sure they still have enough food/substrate.

If I remember correctly, my G. caseyi and one of my C. gloriosa reached adulthood in under 6 months. Due to my own stupidity, I lost the C. nitida clutch I had, so I can't speak from experience on how long it takes them. But a quick search tells me they take about a year from egg to adulthood. I'll be trying to give them another go this year though.

 

[Chimera]

I'm still waiting on my 5 D. tityus larvae to pupate, so I know it's a bit of a waiting game. On the plus side, you just have to set them up and you can forget about them for a few months when you need to make sure they still have enough food/substrate.

If I remember correctly, my G. caseyi and one of my C. gloriosa reached adulthood in under 6 months. Due to my own stupidity, I lost the C. nitida clutch I had, so I can't speak from experience on how long it takes them. But a quick search tells me they take about a year from egg to adulthood. I'll be trying to give them another go this year though.

Hmm, maybe I should go for G. caseyi after all. I found a nice thread on BeetleForum that addresses a lot of aspects of their care. I still have some questions though, do you know of any good sources about keeping/breeding them? Or would you mind answering some questions? We could move it to PMs, as it's off-topic and that might be easier.

 

[PidderPeets]

Hmm, maybe I should go for G. caseyi after all. I found a nice thread on BeetleForum that addresses a lot of aspects of their care. I still have some questions though, do you know of any good sources about keeping/breeding them? Or would you mind answering some questions? We could move it to PMs, as it's off-topic and that might be easier.

There's a book called Flower & Jewel Scarab Beetles Care Guide by Orin McMonigle that was quite helpful for me. Bugsincyberspace sells it, and it includes care info on a lot of different species. If you don't want to invest in the book just yet (which is totally understandable if you're just getting started, because you can't know right off the bat if it's a hobby you'll ultimately want to stick with) I can also do my best to answer any questions you have that I know the answer to, and I can look through the guide to answer things that I don't know the answer to. Feel free to PM me

 

[Stardisk]

Hi! Back again!
I am glad Pidderpeets was able to help you further, I live in the EU so I don't know about US laws. I do know that the larvae of Pachnoda Marginata are commonly sold here as food for reptiles. But it's probably not in the US I guess, check it out anyway, I have no idea what kind of larvae people use in the US as a food source.

I really like the beetles Pidderpeets suggested, they are beautiful, so try those out if they don't cause you any trouble

Furthermore I like to ask if you guys could keep the conversation going on here if you don't mind. I am always learning about other species and I am interested what kind of knowledge you guys are sharing.
Nevertheless, I might not know about these specific beetles but I do have 10+ years experience in keeping the beetles I suggested and other insects. So if I can be of any help with info regarding housing or such... let me know!

 

[Chimera]

There's a book called Flower & Jewel Scarab Beetles Care Guide by Orin McMonigle that was quite helpful for me. Bugsincyberspace sells it, and it includes care info on a lot of different species. If you don't want to invest in the book just yet (which is totally understandable if you're just getting started, because you can't know right off the bat if it's a hobby you'll ultimately want to stick with) I can also do my best to answer any questions you have that I know the answer to, and I can look through the guide to answer things that I don't know the answer to. Feel free to PM me

Yep, I've seen the book for sale, but as you said- I'm not if that's the hobby I'll stick with, so I'm not sure I want to buy it. And awesome! I'm good with keeping the conversation on here for Stardisk. Prepare for questions!

-Substrate. I've heard leaflitter from Bugs in Cyberspace is the best for larvae, but should adults be housed on it as well? On that note, can adults/multiple larvae in different instars all be kept in same tank if it's large enough? (I'll probably get a 5 or 10 gal.)
-Food. How often should I feed, and what should I feed? Are beetle jellies sufficient, or should fresh fruit be offered as well? If so, can I just put it directly on top of the substrate, or should a dish be used for some reason?
-Hydration. What's necessary? Water bowl? Cricket quencher? Daily misting?
-Cleaning. Do feces become a problem? Should I get an isopod cleaner crew? And how often do I need to replace the substrate? Is there an easy way to do this without harming any larvae or pupal cells?
-Temperature. Room temp is fine for them, right?
-Humidity. How much humidity/ventilation is best? I was planning on just getting a mesh lid for the tank.
-Decor. Do they like climbing? Or do you think they would prefer hiding places to stay under?

I know it's a lot of questions, I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out

Hi! Back again!
I am glad Pidderpeets was able to help you further, I live in the EU so I don't know about US laws. I do know that the larvae of Pachnoda Marginata are commonly sold here as food for reptiles. But it's probably not in the US I guess, check it out anyway, I have no idea what kind of larvae people use in the US as a food source.

I really like the beetles Pidderpeets suggested, they are beautiful, so try those out if they don't cause you any trouble

Furthermore I like to ask if you guys could keep the conversation going on here if you don't mind. I am always learning about other species and I am interested what kind of knowledge you guys are sharing.
Nevertheless, I might not know about these specific beetles but I do have 10+ years experience in keeping the beetles I suggested and other insects. So if I can be of any help with info regarding housing or such... let me know!

As far as I know, sun beetle larvae aren't sold in the US. I think the main feeder larvae offered are darkling beetle species.

And I have no issue with keeping the conversation here! Maybe I'll rename the thread and see if anyone else jumps in.

EDIT: I don't think I can rename threads.

 

[PidderPeets]

I do know that the larvae of Pachnoda Marginata are commonly sold here as food for reptiles. But it's probably not in the US I guess, check it out anyway, I have no idea what kind of larvae people use in the US as a food source.

Unfortunately I've never seen that species for sale, and I'm assuming it's illegal here as well, as most non-native species with the same food requirements are illegal here without permits (and the permits are basically only reserved for zoos and other scientific centers). The most common beetle larvae we have as feeders here are Tenebrio molitor and Zophobas morio. It's usually pretty easy to find caterpillar larvae from the subfamily Galleriinae and Manduca sexta (raised on an artificial diet so they're safe for consumption) as well.

Furthermore I like to ask if you guys could keep the conversation going on here if you don't mind. I am always learning about other species and I am interested what kind of knowledge you guys are sharing.

I have no issues leaving the conversation on here. The mods might end up changing the title of moving the conversation to it's own thread though.

Nevertheless, I might not know about these specific beetles but I do have 10+ years experience in keeping the beetles I suggested and other insects. So if I can be of any help with info regarding housing or such... let me know!

You have far more experience than I do, so if there's any extra bits of information that you'd like to add, or if I say anything that you suspect is incorrect, your input would be very much appreciated!

Substrate. I've heard leaflitter from Bugs in Cyberspace is the best for larvae, but should adults be housed on it as well? On that note, can adults/multiple larvae in different instars all be kept in same tank if it's large enough? (I'll probably get a 5 or 10 gal.)

Leaflitter should be included, but that shouldn't be exclusively what you keep them on. They'll also need a mixture of hardwood substrate to eat and burrow in. Adults don't need it unless you want to breed them. They won't lay eggs unless there's suitable substrate for the larvae to feed on. Adults and larvae can be kept together, but the enclosure would need to be large enough to minimize the risk of adults and larvae damaging any eggs or pupa when they burrow. And keep in mind that you may still lose a few if they begin to breed in decent numbers. A 10 gal or even a 5 gal should be more than suitable for a handful of adults and larvae being kept together. I kept 3 adults in a small kritter keeper without any issues, though I never intended to breed them.

Food. How often should I feed, and what should I feed? Are beetle jellies sufficient, or should fresh fruit be offered as well? If so, can I just put it directly on top of the substrate, or should a dish be used for some reason?

The larvae will eat their substrate. That's why a hardwood/leaflitter mix is crucial. You could occasionally add few dog, cat, or high protein fish food pellets as a supplement, but it's not necessary. Adults will eat fresh soft fruits, fruit jellies, and I believe they'll eat watered down real maple syrup occasionally as well (Dynastes sp. at least will). I specify that it should be real because Aunt Jemima's and other similar brands aren't really maple syrup (they're essentially flavored high fructose corn syrup), so those wouldn't be ideal.

It's best to occasionally include fruits in their diet, but they would be fine on fruit jellies alone. It would certainly be cleaner that way. You definitely don't need a bowl, but it wouldn't hurt to add a shallow one for the sake of cleanliness. I used to leave the fruit jellies right in the little containers they came in.

Hydration. What's necessary? Water bowl? Cricket quencher? Daily misting?

Most foods that you'd feed them should be enough in terms of hydration. Mine would sometimes drink directly from the substrate, but not often. When my D. tityus reach adulthood, I'll be including water beads in their enclosure just for the sake of curiosity to see if they'll ever go for them instead of just the liquids from their food.

-Cleaning. Do feces become a problem? Should I get an isopod cleaner crew? And how often do I need to replace the substrate? Is there an easy way to do this without harming any larvae or pupal cells?

Feces is more of a problem for larvae than for the adults. As the larvae consume their substrate, it'll be replaced with inedible rectangular pellets (the feces). So the problem is that when there's lots of feces, there's less food for them and they could potentially starve. When there's a significant amount of pellets in comparison to substrate, it's time to replace the substrate, or at least mix new substrate into what's currently there. When you do this, as long as you're careful, any larvae, adults, and finished pupal cells should be fine. G. caseyi make relatively sturdy and complete pupal cells with distinct walls, so they aren't as fragile as some other flower beetles. They look like little ovals of substrate clumped together (so don't throw them out!), and they're actually sturdy enough that you can pluck the cells out of the substrate completely intact.

Temperature. Room temp is fine for them, right?

Room temperature is fine.

-Humidity. How much humidity/ventilation is best? I was planning on just getting a mesh lid for the tank.

Humidity isn't really as relevant as having moist substrate is. Letting the substrate dry out too much is how I lost my C. nitida clutch. You don't want the substrate soaking wet, but it should definitely be kept moist. When the substrate starts to dry up, you'll want to pour more water directly into the substrate so it can reach the bottom layers of substrate as well. Misting will only dampen to uppermost layer, and it'll dry up far too quickly, which could kill of the larvae. The adults are more tolerant to dry substrate, although I did add water every so often and they prefer a bit of moisture. If you use a mesh lid, I would cover at least half of it to keep the substrate moist longer. You could also buy a sheet of acrylic and get it custom fit to the size of your tank and just drill a few holes in it to retain most of the moisture but still allowing for some airflow. If having a pretty display tank isn't of utmost importance to you, that opens up a world of possibilities for more suitable, easier to work with/customize, and cheaper enclosures for them (ie. deli cups for larvae, storage tubs for larvae and/or adults, etc)

Decor. Do they like climbing? Or do you think they would prefer hiding places to stay under?

Mine actually preferred to dig underground. They would come up daily to explore the surface and feed, but would spend a decent amount of time below the surface. I kept mine with just substrate, but they would likely appreciate a few large chunks of hardwood and perhaps other decorations to climb under and explore

 

[Chimera]

Leaflitter should be included, but that shouldn't be exclusively what you keep them on. They'll also need a mixture of hardwood substrate to eat and burrow in. Adults don't need it unless you want to breed them. They won't lay eggs unless there's suitable substrate for the larvae to feed on. Adults and larvae can be kept together, but the enclosure would need to be large enough to minimize the risk of adults and larvae damaging any eggs or pupa when they burrow. And keep in mind that you may still lose a few if they begin to breed in decent numbers. A 10 gal or even a 5 gal should be more than suitable for a handful of adults and larvae being kept together. I kept 3 adults in a small kritter keeper without any issues, though I never intended to breed them.

Okay, just to make sure we're talking about the same thing, when you say leaflitter, do you mean just leaflitter? I should clarify, I was referring to the "Leaflitter" substrate for sale on Bugs in Cyberspace. According to the description, it's "edible compost soil and two sandwich sized bags of dried leaves to mix in". But compost soil doesn't sound like a hardwood substrate. The site also offers beetle substrates with oak chunks or oak flakes. Would either of those work? And I do hope to breed them.

The larvae will eat their substrate. That's why a hardwood/leaflitter mix is crucial. You could occasionally add few dog, cat, or high protein fish food pellets as a supplement, but it's not necessary. Adults will eat fresh soft fruits, fruit jellies, and I believe they'll eat watered down real maple syrup occasionally as well (Dynastes sp. at least will). I specify that it should be real because Aunt Jemima's and other similar brands aren't really maple syrup (they're essentially flavored high fructose corn syrup), so those wouldn't be ideal.

It's best to occasionally include fruits in their diet, but they would be fine on fruit jellies alone. It would certainly be cleaner that way. You definitely don't need a bowl, but it wouldn't hurt to add a shallow one for the sake of cleanliness. I used to leave the fruit jellies right in the little containers they came in.

Most foods that you'd feed them should be enough in terms of hydration. Mine would sometimes drink directly from the substrate, but not often. When my D. tityus reach adulthood, I'll be including water beads in their enclosure just for the sake of curiosity to see if they'll ever go for them instead of just the liquids from their food.

Maple syrup?! How interesting, I'd never heard of beetles eating that. Okay, I can definite provide jellies and fresh soft fruits

Feces is more of a problem for larvae than for the adults. As the larvae consume their substrate, it'll be replaced with inedible rectangular pellets (the feces). So the problem is that when there's lots of feces, there's less food for them and they could potentially starve. When there's a significant amount of pellets in comparison to substrate, it's time to replace the substrate, or at least mix new substrate into what's currently there. When you do this, as long as you're careful, any larvae, adults, and finished pupal cells should be fine. G. caseyi make relatively sturdy and complete pupal cells with distinct walls, so they aren't as fragile as some other flower beetles. They look like little ovals of substrate clumped together (so don't throw them out!), and they're actually sturdy enough that you can pluck the cells out of the substrate completely intact.

Ah, makes sense. Okay, so replace substrate when needed. (I'm used to owning small animals, where you replace the substrate like once a week, so I wanted to make sure!)

Humidity isn't really as relevant as having moist substrate is. Letting the substrate dry out too much is how I lost my C. nitida clutch. You don't want the substrate soaking wet, but it should definitely be kept moist. When the substrate starts to dry up, you'll want to pour more water directly into the substrate so it can reach the bottom layers of substrate as well. Misting will only dampen to uppermost layer, and it'll dry up far too quickly, which could kill of the larvae. The adults are more tolerant to dry substrate, although I did add water every so often and they prefer a bit of moisture. If you use a mesh lid, I would cover at least half of it to keep the substrate moist longer. You could also buy a sheet of acrylic and get it custom fit to the size of your tank and just drill a few holes in it to retain most of the moisture but still allowing for some airflow. If having a pretty display tank isn't of utmost importance to you, that opens up a world of possibilities for more suitable, easier to work with/customize, and cheaper enclosures for them (ie. deli cups for larvae, storage tubs for larvae and/or adults, etc)

Oh, I was planning on misting, but that's a really good point. I'll probably do something with acrylic, I'm hoping to make a really nice looking display tank. But... if a tank's not suitable, their quality of life is far more important.

Mine actually preferred to dig underground. They would come up daily to explore the surface and feed, but would spend a decent amount of time below the surface. I kept mine with just substrate, but they would likely appreciate a few large chunks of hardwood and perhaps other decorations to climb under and explore

Okay, great!

 

[PidderPeets]

Okay, just to make sure we're talking about the same thing, when you say leaflitter, do you mean just leaflitter? I should clarify, I was referring to the "Leaflitter" substrate for sale on Bugs in Cyberspace. According to the description, it's "edible compost soil and two sandwich sized bags of dried leaves to mix in". But compost soil doesn't sound like a hardwood substrate. The site also offers beetle substrates with oak chunks or oak flakes. Would either of those work? And I do hope to breed them.

Oh! I actually thought you were just referring to the leaflitter (minus actual soil), which is why I mentioned that! The leaflitter substrate that BICS (I'm referring to Bugs In Cyberspace as this from now on. I'm too lazy to keep writing out the full thing) sells is just fine for the larvae. The edible compost soil that they sell still contains decayed hardwood, it's just not exclusively decayed hardwood, or at least not exclusively oak. For lack of a better term, it's of lower quality (but it would still without a doubt be fine for raising the larvae into adulthood.). The reason the oak soils are more expensive is because they are of higher quality than the compost soil. The oak chunk soil is primarily decayed oak, but not as finely ground as the oak flake soil. Think wood chips.

Both are better than the compost soil, but the absolute best one is the oak flake soil, as it's high quality and is significantly easier for them to eat than the oak chunk soil. The compost soil should be perfectly fine for raising the larvae up to adulthood, but if you want the adults to lay eggs, the oak flake soil would be the most likely to encourage breeding. Regardless of what soil you choose, you should include leaflitter (if you buy either of the oak soils, you'll have to buy the leaflitter separately).

You can make your own soil and leaflitter as well, but the soil takes a bit of time as it needs to decay a bit before it's edible. Until you're certain that you'd like to stick with raising a decent amount of beetles, I personally wouldn't put forth the effort to make your own substrate. The stuff they sell on BICS is just more convenient in my opinion. As for the leaflitter, you'd just need to gather dried fallen leaves from hardwood trees such as oak, maple, or birch, and let them dry out to the point that they crumble very easily. Then just crumble them up and mix them into the soil.

Oh, I was planning on misting, but that's a really good point. I'll probably do something with acrylic, I'm hoping to make a really nice looking display tank. But... if a tank's not suitable, their quality of life is far more important.

You can definitely make a display tank work, it will just be more expensive and be a bit more higher maintenance than containers used just for practicality. A 5 gallon tank should be able to house at least 10 larvae, but keep in mind that you'd need to fill that tank up with a significant amount of soil (at least halfway). In that case, I actually probably would suggest making your own soil, as buying enough to fill up even a 5 gallon tank that much would probably be really expensive if you ordered from BICS.

There's more than a few resources online on how to make it yourself (I wasn't thinking and left my flower beetle care guide at home and I won't be back for the night, so I can't go over any specifics from the book right now, sorry ), but I'm fairly certain I have a few videos saved on a few easier ways to make the soil, so I can search for those if you'd like.

Aside from the amount of substrate needed, you'd also need to pay more attention to the moisture levels of the substrate. A custom sized sheet of acrylic with holes drilled in would be the most practical way to keep moisture in without taking away from the overall look of a display tank.

What I did for my beetles was raise the larvae individually in 16 oz. deli cups filled with soil and with a few holes poked into the lid. When they reached adulthood, I placed them into a small kritter keeper filled with coco fiber (since you intend to breed them, you'd need to replace the coco fiber with proper food soil like previously discussed) for a more display-friendly look. With that setup, I honestly only needed to check on the larvae about once a month just to make sure the soil's moisture levels were okay and that they hadn't gone through all their soil yet. The adults needed more maintenance in their kritter keeper, but they were pretty to look as, so I didn't mind so much

 

[draconisj4]

Okay, just to make sure we're talking about the same thing, when you say leaflitter, do you mean just leaflitter? I should clarify, I was referring to the "Leaflitter" substrate for sale on Bugs in Cyberspace. According to the description, it's "edible compost soil and two sandwich sized bags of dried leaves to mix in". But compost soil doesn't sound like a hardwood substrate. The site also offers beetle substrates with oak chunks or oak flakes. Would either of those work? And I do hope to breed them.

I just wanted to let you know that the leaf litter from Bugs in Cyberspace works just fine to raise the larvae. That's what I used and they did just fine. If you are going to raise a lot of them you will probably need extra leaves though. I raised 33 and went through a lot of substrate. They are very easy to breed...too easy actually.

 

[Chimera]

Oh! I actually thought you were just referring to the leaflitter (minus actual soil), which is why I mentioned that! The leaflitter substrate that BICS (I'm referring to Bugs In Cyberspace as this from now on. I'm too lazy to keep writing out the full thing) sells is just fine for the larvae. The edible compost soil that they sell still contains decayed hardwood, it's just not exclusively decayed hardwood, or at least not exclusively oak. For lack of a better term, it's of lower quality (but it would still without a doubt be fine for raising the larvae into adulthood.). The reason the oak soils are more expensive is because they are of higher quality than the compost soil. The oak chunk soil is primarily decayed oak, but not as finely ground as the oak flake soil. Think wood chips.

Both are better than the compost soil, but the absolute best one is the oak flake soil, as it's high quality and is significantly easier for them to eat than the oak chunk soil. The compost soil should be perfectly fine for raising the larvae up to adulthood, but if you want the adults to lay eggs, the oak flake soil would be the most likely to encourage breeding. Regardless of what soil you choose, you should include leaflitter (if you buy either of the oak soils, you'll have to buy the leaflitter separately).

You can make your own soil and leaflitter as well, but the soil takes a bit of time as it needs to decay a bit before it's edible. Until you're certain that you'd like to stick with raising a decent amount of beetles, I personally wouldn't put forth the effort to make your own substrate. The stuff they sell on BICS is just more convenient in my opinion. As for the leaflitter, you'd just need to gather dried fallen leaves from hardwood trees such as oak, maple, or birch, and let them dry out to the point that they crumble very easily. Then just crumble them up and mix them into the soil.

You can definitely make a display tank work, it will just be more expensive and be a bit more higher maintenance than containers used just for practicality. A 5 gallon tank should be able to house at least 10 larvae, but keep in mind that you'd need to fill that tank up with a significant amount of soil (at least halfway). In that case, I actually probably would suggest making your own soil, as buying enough to fill up even a 5 gallon tank that much would probably be really expensive if you ordered from BICS.

There's more than a few resources online on how to make it yourself (I wasn't thinking and left my flower beetle care guide at home and I won't be back for the night, so I can't go over any specifics from the book right now, sorry ), but I'm fairly certain I have a few videos saved on a few easier ways to make the soil, so I can search for those if you'd like.

Aside from the amount of substrate needed, you'd also need to pay more attention to the moisture levels of the substrate. A custom sized sheet of acrylic with holes drilled in would be the most practical way to keep moisture in without taking away from the overall look of a display tank.

What I did for my beetles was raise the larvae individually in 16 oz. deli cups filled with soil and with a few holes poked into the lid. When they reached adulthood, I placed them into a small kritter keeper filled with coco fiber (since you intend to breed them, you'd need to replace the coco fiber with proper food soil like previously discussed) for a more display-friendly look. With that setup, I honestly only needed to check on the larvae about once a month just to make sure the soil's moisture levels were okay and that they hadn't gone through all their soil yet. The adults needed more maintenance in their kritter keeper, but they were pretty to look as, so I didn't mind so much

I just wanted to let you know that the leaf litter from Bugs in Cyberspace works just fine to raise the larvae. That's what I used and they did just fine. If you are going to raise a lot of them you will probably need extra leaves though. I raised 33 and went through a lot of substrate. They are very easy to breed...too easy actually.

Thanks so much for all the info guys! Though flower beetles are beautiful, I just don't have the confidence to start out with them... So I've settled on darklings. I posted a thread about it, if you know any answers and could chip in, I would be very grateful! Thanks again for your help.