Quick weekend trip south

[Drachenjager]

So... What is the reason A. moderatum is so hard to find as CB in the US if so many were taken by unethical commercial collectors? Is it because any interested collectors have a WC one in their house already? Or are people put off by the slow growth?

I searched for CB slings, but had no luck finding except through one seller, which I did not buy from. I ended up with two young adult WC females (being bred this fall) from two different people.

I hope to have CB slings for sale this coming spring/summer.

My bug room is at 80+ in the summer and 72+ in the winter and I saw nice growth in A. chalcodes, at least as fast as the Brachypelma slings I have. A friend had the same A. chalcodes slings and after 9 months(?) mine were 1.5-2x as big due to temperature difference.

Sorry if some of this is off topic.

i believe people are too impatient. they want a large T now...problem is these are not large . I suspect those trying to CB them are taking the wrong approach and thats why you dont see them. like breeding 2 differant species.

 

[Brent H.]

I agree 100%. I know of many areas in Texas, even publicly accessible areas, that have large populations of these spiders. I do not condone over-collecting at all, but again, we really don't know how the populations are affected by removing a few or a lot. Even though tarantulas reproduce slowly, they are prolific. I do not support reintroductions unless the spiders are introduced back to the original population because I think it is as unethical as overcollecting (I can elaborate later).

This T has a huge range. There are 1000's of square miles of private prop it inhabits. I don't believe it's "in danger". But at the same time, the idea of destroying their environment on the side of the road and digging them up is not good. But the sp is not in danger. I feel I'm being realistic, ...I know, so does everybody else that disagrees. The world is what we see, and that's the side of the road. If it's not on the side of the road, it's gone. Obviously, after one thinks about it, that's not the case. I've seen males walking around on so many roads 100s of miles away from each other. 1000's of sq miles of private prop it inhabits between roads. I found my first mod in the late 80s but never knew what the mature males looked like until Dave told me. So good it is that there is private ownership of property. My intention is to discourage digging up the T's without the emotion, tactics and drama. The species is safe. I think captive breeding is what should be tried now. I know it's a little difficult to get slings, I tried it myself recently but still expect a sac next year. But these are like A. henzi that are colored a little differently. I feel there is a little hype going on here but, whatever. The most negative thing I can think of that upsets me the most, is when people go on private property without permission. Besides that being wrong at the core, it creates an unreasonable backlash, much like the new "herp" law that was recently passed in Texas. If digging up Ts on the side of the road becomes more popular, there is going to be a movement to create more laws. There's got to be a compromise somewhere. I will pick one up if I see it on the road, no digging for me though, ..just my opinion. I have to say that's easy for me to say since I have a couple. I sure would be tempted if I saw one in a hole and really wanted it. I did actually do some digging once when I saw one at night that had just started a bad hole on the road in a little pile of dirt a tractor was using for repairs. I saw the T while I was driving. I just think it might get out of control out there some day and they will even shut bugging down, that'd be a bummer.

 

[Galapoheros]

Yeah Graham, the massive commercial collecting from the side of the road turns me off too and that's the kind of thing that might stop people like us from having a fun time out there. It's not that the bug stuff would be harder to find out there along the side of the road, that's not it. But more crazy laws might pop up that won't even allow anybody to hunt for arthropods from the side of the road, as crazy as that sounds. It's not the thought of a "bigger challenge" that bothers me. It's the thought of the gov stepping in. It's getting to be too much as it is. The gov has over-stepped throughout history. Today, knowing history has staved off the same old mistakes but I only see it creeping up in the same way, only slower compared to the past. Ha, I think I might be sounding like a conspiracy dude. Padikson, I think CBs are hard to get because from what I've heard, it's hard to get a sac from these Ts. That takes me to Drachs comment, that there are probably things people are missing while trying to get a sac from this sp that makes breeding attempts unsuccessful. The female I have readily mated but I haven't seen a sac, ..maybe in the Spring.

 

[Texas Blonde]

So... What is the reason A. moderatum is so hard to find as CB in the US if so many were taken by unethical commercial collectors? Is it because any interested collectors have a WC one in their house already? Or are people put off by the slow growth?

I think part of the problem might lie in where the males and females come from. I have heard of females refusing males that werent from their same locality. If the WC specimen is sold without locality data, there is no way to match them up. Also, I dont think people are cycling these spiders when they try to breed them. Those that have tried at least, as far as I can tell, it doesnt happen often.

 

[Brent H.]

This is part of the reason why I think blind reintroductions are unethical... a person may feel noble for "saving" some spiders, but without population genetic data and other natural history info, we just cannot do that.

I think part of the problem might lie in where the males and females come from. I have heard of females refusing males that werent from their same locality. If the WC specimen is sold without locality data, there is no way to match them up. Also, I dont think people are cycling these spiders when they try to breed them. Those that have tried at least, as far as I can tell, it doesnt happen often.

 

[cacoseraph]

This is part of the reason why I think blind reintroductions are unethical... a person may feel noble for "saving" some spiders, but without population genetic data and other natural history info, we just cannot do that.

i have a completely different problem with reintroducing

i believe EVERY person i have ever read about wanting to reintroduce a native species also keeps exotics. not only do they keep exotics... but they also generally feed store bought crickets. combine those two facts and you really don't know what kind of "infections" you might have in your collection or in your feedes at any given time. consider how many people have had collections decimated or worse by some mysterious malady that never gets identified. hell... the freaking VECTOR for the malady is unknown!

now, consider such a malady being transfered from a collection to the wild by someone reintroducing back into the wild. consider what would happen if your precious moderatum were decimated by some disease *you* introduced to them! one out of every 10 moderatum IN THE WORLD dead by your hand... wowsers. it would take millenia to work off that kind of bug karma!

honestly... i am not even saying reintroduction is absolutely bad... but damn... done with proper consideration it is going to be so hard to do... i would love nothing better than to do some reintroductrion conservationism... but i couldn't justify the risks with the rewards and thus haven't

 

[josh_r]

I know stories of a single commercial collecter taking well over 1000 individuals in one season.
Graham

i know a guy here in arizona like this. he collects hundreds of spiders and decimates populations. i no longer associate with the guy because i've showed him spots and i go back the following year to find not one spider. its so sad. i dont believe collecting is wrong, just mass collecting. i wont take any more than a few from any particular area of any particular species... if i take any at all. i typically find much more pleasure in seeing animals in the wild than in a cage. i used to keep rattlesnakes until i realized they are so much more fascinating in the wild. i no longer keep rattlesnakes. the same goes for tarantulas with me.

 

[josh_r]

i have a completely different problem with reintroducing

i believe EVERY person i have ever read about wanting to reintroduce a native species also keeps exotics. not only do they keep exotics... but they also generally feed store bought crickets. combine those two facts and you really don't know what kind of "infections" you might have in your collection or in your feedes at any given time. consider how many people have had collections decimated or worse by some mysterious malady that never gets identified. hell... the freaking VECTOR for the malady is unknown!

a perfect example of this is desert tortoises. people back in the day kept desert tortoises with sulcata tortoises and then got tired of the desert tortoise so they let the desert tortoise go back in the desert. well, the animals had contracted a severe disease from the sulcatas and this disease is wiping mojave populations of desert tortoise out. i think that if you are going to do some project to reintroduce spiders, you may want to keep them completely separate of anything else and feed them native insects. or better yet, relocate them to your property and mark the burrows and monitor the population on your property and when the population really starts to grow, you can take from your property and relocate them back to the original collection site. i dunno, it might work

-josh

 

[cacoseraph]

a perfect example of this is desert tortoises. people back in the day kept desert tortoises with sulcata tortoises and then got tired of the desert tortoise so they let the desert tortoise go back in the desert. well, the animals had contracted a severe disease from the sulcatas and this disease is wiping mojave populations of desert tortoise out. i think that if you are going to do some project to reintroduce spiders, you may want to keep them completely separate of anything else and feed them native insects. or better yet, relocate them to your property and mark the burrows and monitor the population on your property and when the population really starts to grow, you can take from your property and relocate them back to the original collection site. i dunno, it might work

-josh

i've gotten into researching the invert pathogen question... there is some CRAZY stuff out there! my hero species is a fungus from malaysia that preys upon mesothelae and mygalomorphae trapdoor spiders. after it kills the spider it fills the body with fungus... then sents a shoot up the burrow and pushes open the trapdoor to send its spores out!

and since it reproduces with spores... all kinds of like, phoretic vectors become available! like say... all those frickin fruit flies ppl sometimes get around their collections?

hopefully in 3-6 months i will have the first in a series of articles on invert pathogens ready at first i was going to learn chemistry and organic chemistry before i wrote the first article... but that was a little much, even for me =P

 

[PALAMO]

Hi Sky, Just Curious, Have Had Any Success Breeding And Getting An Egg Sac From Your Moderatums Yet?

 

[John Apple]

re-introductions can be done right as long as they do not come in contact with personal collections.
We collect tiger and spotted eggs up here in the frozen north , raise all larva to the land stage and then release them back in the wild minus a percentage for the pet trade.
The larva are raised in wading pools in my yard so they NEVER come in contact with my collection of verts and herps. This has worked very well , in areas that the salamanders were wiped out we are seeing the fruits of our labors again as breeding has taken place in these areas. Imagine that ...it can work

 

[josh_r]

very cool john! i would love to see something like that happen for california tiger sals and sonoran tiger sals.

re-introductions can be done right as long as they do not come in contact with personal collections.
We collect tiger and spotted eggs up here in the frozen north , raise all larva to the land stage and then release them back in the wild minus a percentage for the pet trade.
The larva are raised in wading pools in my yard so they NEVER come in contact with my collection of verts and herps. This has worked very well , in areas that the salamanders were wiped out we are seeing the fruits of our labors again as breeding has taken place in these areas. Imagine that ...it can work

 

[John Apple]

very cool john! i would love to see something like that happen for california tiger sals and sonoran tiger sals.

Josh...it is easier than you think, scoop some eggs get some fairy shrimp or diatoms , fill a wading pool. Add sali eggs. They will continue to feed off of any mosquito larva that are deposited there. and if food get scarce get some brine eggs or fresh bloodworms. The juvie salis look awsome man

 

[josh_r]

Josh...it is easier than you think, scoop some eggs get some fairy shrimp or diatoms , fill a wading pool. Add sali eggs. They will continue to feed off of any mosquito larva that are deposited there. and if food get scarce get some brine eggs or fresh bloodworms. The juvie salis look awsome man

i know it is easy. ive raised ambystoma m. nebulosum to metamorphsis. its just difficult for me cause i live in phoenix. check this thread to see pics of some beasties i found in california


http://scabies.myfreeforum.org/about1429.html

 

[John Apple]

In phoenix I would bury the wading pool in the ground with only two inches above ground, this will help you keep the water temp lower.