Pulled molt while T was still in the process, then cut it off. How wrong is this?

[Tenebrarius]

I don't think it was life or death for that T, but they didn't do anything I would really consider worth reprimanding, I really don't have a problem with what they did.

 

[Vanisher]

From your experience, do you think that he tried to remove the molt too soon as it was still attached and then it became stuck? Or do you think that his male would have actually been stuck with that piece on the abdomen? This what I couldn’t figure out?

I have a T since I was 8. Some one gave her to me. She was a Grammostola Rosea. I have always had a T or 2 since then. Which I don’t consider much experience at all. However 5 years ago, I decided to truly dedicate myself to my love of spiders. 22 of my 26 adults were raised from slings. Thankful I haven’t lost a sling yet. I have have never had a problem with a molt either.

I would be lost if my T was in trouble from a molt. Thankful it’s not common so hopefully I will never be confronted with this situation.

What do you do if a T molts in transit? It can’t be good because they are tightly packed for safety but how would it wiggle out of the legs?

Could you please share your experience about the one that you had trouble with.

I had a big juvenile B albo that got stuck. Extreamly rare but this can happen. The one that died during transit i dont remember what speicies it was. It moulted and died during shipping and was dead when i got it. Slings often can moukt during shipping and be fine, sometimes not. So it is the guy who sends the animal that has a responibility not shipping when a tarantula is about to moult!. The other thing you refer to i dont have a clue. Havnt seen that video from Petko. Like the guy but i dont watch him very often so i dont know why it died? If that is what you wonder?

 

[nicodimus22]

I have never had to help any of my T’s with the molt and free state that I wouldn’t know at which to get involved unless a leg was stuck and the T was trying to turn over. At point in the molt, after the legs are out, and T is working on the abdomen, is the T in danger?

Usually, the carapace pops off first, then the fangs and abdomen (mostly) slide off, and the last thing to come out are the legs (and in doing so, any remaining sections of abdomen come free, usually around the back and spinnerets.)

In the few cases where I've intervened, it was clear that the T had popped off the carapace and part of the abdomen, but was making no progress whatsoever on the legs, and had been stuck this way for several hours, and in some cases, overnight. At this point, things are starting to harden, and the longer you wait, the more difficult it will be to help them. A tiny pair of scissors, some tweezers, some very careful spraying of water, and a lot of patience will eventually let you get the old molt off, as long as it hasn't hardened too much. Even if some of the legs can't be freed, the tarantula may recover fully if you have to remove most of them (they can stop the bleeding at the base of the legs themselves, and will self-amputate any unneeded sections if they need to.) Legs do grow back in subsequent molts. Fangs too.

One other point: it's very important to make sure that the area around the anus is clear of any old molt pieces still stuck on. This can cause impaction, and a long, slow death for your T.

 

[Drea]

I don't think it was life or death for that T, but they didn't do anything I would really consider worth reprimanding, I really don't have a problem with what they did.

I am not the type to reprimand or deliver criticism to anyone about how they do things unless there was intentional cruelty or absolute stupidity.

But I am an information junkie. I have been under the impression that one should never disturb the T while molting, only attempt to remove the molt if the T is not near it, and to not make adjustments to the enclosure unless there is an absolute reason.

I saw this video and his actions were completely different then what I know. Opening the enclose, removing the web, attempting to remove the molt while the T is still slightly attached. There is a great learning opportunity for me here since I never see my T’s in the full blown molt process.

So far I have learned that there might be a time that I will have to get involved for the safety of my T although very unlikely.

Now my question is how would one know when the T is in trouble with the molt and what can one do about it if the situation should arise?

 

[The Seraph]

Now my question is how would one know when the T is in trouble with the molt and what can one do about it if the situation should arise?

I found the thread!

 

[Chris LXXIX]

I have been under the impression that one should never disturb the T while molting, only attempt to remove the molt if the T is not near it, and to not make adjustments to the enclosure unless there is an absolute reason.

And all of that is 101% correct, Drea: keep up that way

As for the rest, your legit questions and etc, mark my words... when poop happens (as I've said, thankfully, is a rare event, at least) may happens (but isn't written in stone, and btw normal everyday life issues may enters into that, like: "what if I'm not home" etc) that some keeper decide to go the extra mile.

Still, we are in a 'blank' zone, a pure grey area. It's always nature and equilibrium that will decide the final outcome.

We? We that keep are called to offer the best, suitable, reasonable set up and parameters we can, according to the species

 

[Drea]

I had a big juvenile B albo that got stuck. Extreamly rare but this can happen. The one that died during transit i dont remember what speicies it was. It moulted and died during shipping and was dead when i got it. Slings often can moukt during shipping and be fine, sometimes not. So it is the guy who sends the animal that has a responibility not shipping when a tarantula is about to moult!. The other thing you refer to i dont have a clue. Havnt seen that video from Petko. Like the guy but i dont watch him very often so i dont know why it died? If that is what you wonder?

That is very irresponsible to send a T in that condition. I would rather wait a month to get my T than risk it’s life and welfare. A simple email of do you want to wait or a refund is the best way for a seller to proceed.

I like the guy and watch all of his DIY enclosure videos. I have tried to build some like he does and it results in filling my trash can.

The T didn’t die, but I am so inexperienced when it comes to getting involved with the molt other than removing it and sexing it.

When is right to get involved with the molt. More importantly what the heck do you do if the T is an trouble?

There has to be a tread here some where about what to do if your T is in trouble. Ummm.

 

[The Seraph]

That is very irresponsible to send a T in that condition. I would rather wait a month to get my T than risk it’s life and welfare. A simple email of do you want to wait or a refund is the best way for a seller to proceed.

I like the guy and watch all of his DIY enclosure videos. I have tried to build some like he does and it results in filling my trash can.

The T didn’t die, but I am so inexperienced when it comes to getting involved with the molt other than removing it and sexing it.

When is right to get involved with the molt. More importantly what the heck do you do if the T is an trouble?

There has to be a tread here some where about what to do if your T is in trouble. Ummm.

I found the thread!

 

[Drea]

Usually, the carapace pops off first, then the fangs and abdomen (mostly) slide off, and the last thing to come out are the legs (and in doing so, any remaining sections of abdomen come free, usually around the back and spinnerets.)

In the few cases where I've intervened, it was clear that the T had popped off the carapace and part of the abdomen, but was making no progress whatsoever on the legs, and had been stuck this way for several hours, and in some cases, overnight. At this point, things are starting to harden, and the longer you wait, the more difficult it will be to help them. A tiny pair of scissors, some tweezers, some very careful spraying of water, and a lot of patience will eventually let you get the old molt off, as long as it hasn't hardened too much. Even if some of the legs can't be freed, the tarantula may recover fully if you have to remove most of them (they can stop the bleeding at the base of the legs themselves, and will self-amputate any unneeded sections if they need to.) Legs do grow back in subsequent molts. Fangs too.

One other point: it's very important to make sure that the area around the anus is clear of any old molt pieces still stuck on. This can cause impaction, and a long, slow death for your T.

Thank you for that information. I hope this never happens to me and my T’s. I will be researching the heck out of this just in case it does happen.
I am a firm believer in knowing everything you can about a situation that may never happen but can be possible so that one is prepared to do the best one can.

I found the thread!

Yay!! Thank you

 

[Anoplogaster]

I might be of the minority who believes you should leave spiders to their own devices. Assuming your husbandry is on point, spiders have been around for eons! They do just fine without our gigantic primate fingers helping them. What’s worse is if you have a spider that is somehow genetically weaker than average, nature would select them out (perhaps by getting stuck in a molt). When you help them, that removes that selection pressure. And that spider may go on to produce hundreds of offspring that could possess that same defect, and you now have a population of hobby spiders that can’t even make it through a molt on their own.

A stuck molt could occur in varying degrees, and identifying whether it’s a “life or death” situation is purely a judgement call. If you judge incorrectly and decide to help, the spider could then be in a “life or death” situation that you created.

 

[Drea]

And all of that is 101% correct, Drea: keep up that way

Without the video we will never know and I am too lazy to search it. I doubt he would have just pulled the moult off whilst still in the process, maybe it was stuck and he was helping it? or maybe it moulted successfully and he just pulled the moult out of the enclosure, which I do all the time. I have also pulled a bit of moult off from slings that were still attached, freshly moulted tarantulas. Not much pulling involved.

We? We that keep, are called to offer the best, suitable, reasonable set up and parameters we can, according to the species

And

And all of that is 101% correct, Drea: keep up that way

As for the rest, your legit questions and etc, mark my words... when poop happens (as I've said, thankfully, is a rare event, at least) may happens (but isn't written in stone, and btw normal everyday life issues may enters into that, like: "what if I'm not home" etc) that some keeper decide to go the extra mile.

Still, we are in a 'blank' zone, a pure grey area. It's always nature and equilibrium that will decide the final outcome.

We? We that keep are called to offer the best, suitable, reasonable set up and parameters we can, according to the species

Very well said.

I might be of the minority who believes you should leave spiders to their own devices. Assuming your husbandry is on point, spiders have been around for eons! They do just fine without our gigantic primate fingers helping them. What’s worse is if you have a spider that is somehow genetically weaker than average, nature would select them out (perhaps by getting stuck in a molt). When you help them, that removes that selection pressure. And that spider may go on to produce hundreds of offspring that could possess that same defect, and you now have a population of hobby spiders that can’t even make it through a molt on their own.

A stuck molt could occur in varying degrees, and identifying whether it’s a “life or death” situation is purely a judgement call. If you judge incorrectly and decide to help, the spider could then be in a “life or death” situation that you created.

That is what I was trying to figure out on that video.

Was it necessary to to attempt to pull the molt while the T was still on its back doing what spiders do?

Did that attempt actually cause it to get stuck on that price that hadn’t come away from his abdomen yet.

I don’t think the T was in a life or death situation before he tried to pull it.

I don’t know if it was stuck in a manner that the T couldn’t navigate through and cutting it off was medically necessary.

 

[Tenebrarius]

I might be of the minority who believes you should leave spiders to their own devices. Assuming your husbandry is on point, spiders have been around for eons! They do just fine without our gigantic primate fingers helping them. What’s worse is if you have a spider that is somehow genetically weaker than average, nature would select them out (perhaps by getting stuck in a molt). When you help them, that removes that selection pressure. And that spider may go on to produce hundreds of offspring that could possess that same defect, and you now have a population of hobby spiders that can’t even make it through a molt on their own.

A stuck molt could occur in varying degrees, and identifying whether it’s a “life or death” situation is purely a judgement call. If you judge incorrectly and decide to help, the spider could then be in a “life or death” situation that you created.

if a T was that "genetically weak" aka "inferior" then it wouldn't even survive in hobbyist care. we don't do much but ensure their food and safety, but when it come to wet molts and bad mounts in general not much we can do but possibly aid in removing stuck molts. Which if survived while normally heal after the next molt. It is likely their genetic fitness could be somewhat reduced in captivity but if it is below the level of surviving it dies so even then it is still good enough to be fine.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Very well said.

Brava, Drea!

 

[Drea]

Thank you so much to everyone that has shared their knowledge and thoughts on this matter.

Much appreciated.

 

[Tenebrarius]

Brava, Drea!

this guy can't keep his Italian in his pants sometimes, I can smell the parmesan cheese from my computer

That is what I was trying to figure out on that video.

Was it necessary to to attempt to pull the molt while the T was still on its back doing what spiders do?

Did that attempt actually cause it to get stuck on that price that hadn’t come away from his abdomen yet.

I don’t think the T was in a life or death situation before he tried to pull it.

I don’t know if it was stuck in a manner that the T couldn’t navigate through and cutting it off was medically necessary.

normally you only want to interfere if the legs are obviously stuck, I would check out the thread the seraph sent

 

[Drea]

I found the thread!

Thank you for finding that thread. If I would have seen that, everything that asked was right there in one post. Glorious.

Umm is there a way to save a thread incase you ever need to refer to it in the future? I know I should really ask that in different place but maybe you know.

 

[The Seraph]

Thank you for finding that thread. If I would have seen that, everything that asked was right there in one post. Glorious.

Umm is there a way to save a thread incase you ever need to refer to it in the future? I know I should really ask that in different place but maybe you know.

Bookmark it. Or write down the URL.

 

[Drea]

Bookmark it. Or write down the URL.

Sad to say I have never bookmarked anything on my phone. Haha I googled. No wonder my kids tell me I am old. So sad...

 

[Chris LXXIX]

this guy can't keep his Italian in his pants sometimes, I can smell the parmesan cheese from my computer

You are one of the persons here that I love more, honestly

 

[Tenebrarius]

Sad to say I have never bookmarked anything on my phone. Haha I googled. No wonder my kids tell me I am old. So sad...

I'm only on here in my computer, so I bookmark everything I find useful. This site has lots of great in-depth care threads and etc

You are one of the persons here that I love more, honestly

of course what is not to love about an obnoxious american fellow, they are great.