Pronouncing Latin Words - Ptery -

[MichelleLynn]

So when pronouncing the Latin word for wing, Ptery, the "p" is silent.
Is the "p" still silent when there is a prefix attached to it, like "Diptera"?
I've searched the internet but haven't come up with anything.
Thanks

 

[ecooper]

My understanding is that Latin is a dead language and therefore there is no official right or wrong way to pronounce Scientific names and terms that are based on that language. I remember back in University (a million years ago) listening to two profs have a heated arguement over whether the "u" in the word buccal should be pronounced as "ah" or "ooh".

: )

Anyhow, I have only every heard diptera pronounced dip-tera

Cheers,
EC
www.macrocritters.wordpress.com

 

[AbraxasComplex]

In this case the prefix is di (which equals two). So this would be pronounced as the first syllable. The ptera (wing) is the second syllable and would be pronounced without the p.

It's best with Latin to pronounce it based on the various combined words/designations being different syllables. You just have to able to recognize them.

This is my understanding of pronouncing Latin, but it may not be correct and even if it is, most will use basic English to pronounce every letter anyway.

 

[JadeWilliamson]

The way I see it, all words were made up and there can't be a right or wrong way to say it. If someone calls you out for saying it wrong you can retort with "Bro, it's a made up word." When they say "No, it's not." You say "How so? All words were made up," and you win.

 

[The Snark]

When in doubt, check the final authority, the etymology of the word. Etymological science explains what our words meant and how they sounded. If their meaning or the way they are pronounced has changed, that will be found and explained. Please note, etymology is very much a science and strives to be definitive and accurate, supplying all other sciences with accurate clearly defined words, complete with their origin and any modifications in their meaning(s) or pronunciations.

To answer the OPs query, as best as memory serves, the letter P at the beginning the the word is used as a modifier for the following consonant. It is not pronounced but denotes a more sudden onset to the consonant. Note this only applies to consonants, not vowels.

AbraxasComplex correctly pointed out diptera is a compound word made of two words. The use of the P aids in denoting this. Di-Tera, not Ditera or Dip-tera.

(As an aside, I've noticed over the years that, when I worked for various professors as a 'lab rat' as we were called at Cal Tech, I often picked up as much as the students did. Practical application sometimes wins out over the textbooks, yes? My favorite professor was a little older than dirt, had incredibly loose dentures, and spoke with a hideously thick Croatian accent. I often picked up the correct pronunciation of words by how the spittle sprayed.)

 

[desertanimal]

All the entomologists I know pronounce that word exactly how you would pronounce it if you read it as English.

diptera, hemiptera, homoptera, coleoptera, hymenoptera, lepidoptera, etc., all with the p's pronounced. If you dropped them and pronounced those words with the pts as just ts, I'm sure no one would know what you were talking about. That's just my experience with people who work with hymenoptera, lepidoptera, an orthoptera.

 

[The Snark]

All the entomologists I know pronounce that word exactly how you would pronounce it if you read it as English.

diptera, hemiptera, homoptera, coleoptera, hymenoptera, lepidoptera, etc., all with the p's pronounced. If you dropped them and pronounced those words with the pts as just ts, I'm sure no one would know what you were talking about. That's just my experience with people who work with hymenoptera, lepidoptera, an orthoptera.

Very good examples. Aptly demonstrates how words evolve and become modified from their origins. The modern pronunciations are correct for modern day to day use, but misleading. The origin words must be taken into account, and are, in order to understand what the words mean.
Hemi-Tera, Homo-Tera, Coleo-Tera and so forth. In essence, the modern pronunciations are slang.

 

[Ungoliant]

Just because Latin is a dead language doesn't mean that there aren't rules governing its pronunciation. That being said, pronunciation of "New Latin" tends to be highly anglicized. See Pronunciation of Biological Latin.

Thus, Diptera would be pronounced "dip-TER-uh" -- even though you would not pronounce the P in pteron ("wing") -- just as we say "ky-ROP-ter-uh" for Chiroptera.

If, in the English-speaking scientific community, you tried to pronounce words using the rules of Classical Latin, people would probably look at you funny.

 

[desertanimal]

Actually, most people pronounce dipetera "DIP-ter-uh." At least all of the biologists and entomologists I've known have. Germans and Americans, both. http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=diptera

Also, I don't think the modern pronunciations are necessarily slang. That depends on whether you think you know an original, technically correct pronunciation based on some known rules of pronunciation. As has been pointed out, no one is sure that he or she knows this about Latin.

There are plenty of letters in plenty of languages that are silent in some constructions but phonated in others, often depending on placement in the word or on what types of sounds are adjacent.

e.g., damn (silent n) vs damnation (phonated n), phlegm (silent g) vs phlegmatic (phonated g). I'm sure French and Spanish speakers can come up with one or two other examples . . .

I would also wager that most people who use "diptera" on a regular basis are quite clear about how it's spelled, and that pronouncing it as if it is its two separate roots (instead of a word with its own pronunciation once the roots are combined into one word) doesn't necessarily make the etymology of the word any more clear to the uninitiated. In this case, if pronounced as its separate roots would be--DAI ter uh, it could be interpreted as "two wings," or "two earths (or lands)." Doesn't really help. DIP-tera, with the soft stop of the phonated p, actually indicates the spelling of the word and its roots much more clearly than a pronunciation of the two roots as if separate in this case, and is therefore LESS misleading about what the word roots are.

 

[The Snark]

A slang... Modern English is a slang. Americaneeze is a slang. Yeesh. Essentially, a slang is any words that are altered from their origin pronunciation, commonly for the purpose of socializing. Once it becomes socially acceptable it becomes a part of that languages modern vocabulary. Welllllll, there isn't much English that technically isn't slang. Slang has crept in to just about everywhere, including scientific terminologies. However, disregarding much of the pronunciation, etymology still rules the roost. You want to know what a scientific word means you dive into the etymology.

 

[spydrhunter1]

You think order pronunciation is tough, try family, genus and species names. We ise to have arguments about Cicadellidae in grad school, one post doc in particular thought C-y-kid-delidae was correct. The majority favored Cic-ad-dellidae.