Pre-moult woes, shovelling and drowning warnings

Scoly

Arachnobaron
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
Messages
488
Jut thought I'd post this as there's scattered bits of info for others.

So I got a Peruvian "viridicornis" in late October (it's now early February) about 13cm and it seemed sluggish, not very alert, and dark of colouration, so we figured it was pre-moult. However it kept on walking around it's cage, and eating, not that much, and sometimes needing help, but then got sharper and more active, so I figured it might not be pre-moult after all. It also groomed itself and itched itself a lot.

A couple of weeks ago I planned to move it to a new enclosure, so wanted to de-mite it first and put it in a jar as I figured out how I was going to do it (using my avocado trick or just a water shake), but then decided I might as well do a full drowning knock out and sex it at the same time. I've drowned many other pedes before, and never had a problem. I'd read one warning about sexing by drowning while pre-moult, but thought if it was going to moult it will have moulted by now, and that was my mistake.

I left it in for 45 min, sexed it, found no sign of mites (so they either came off, or it wasn't itching mites) and then let it recover, but it took absolutely ages to wake up, and I knew I'd screwed up. I left it overnight, and in the morning it was sluggish, had its maxilipeds hanging open, the head and first two segments seemed paralysed, so that they were being dragged around or pushed into the ground when moving forward. It's mandibles hanging out (antennae working, but oddly), and the two front legs were curled inwards, one even turning black at the base over the next few days. Needless to say I was completely gutted.

It stayed like this for a couple of weeks during which I sought help from people who know more than me. One suggestion was to raise the temperature a bit as it was 25 by day and 20 by night, so I bumped it up to 28 on the hot side and overall of 23 at night.

Another suggestion was to drip feed it some very weak saline solution, which can apparently solve problems with invertebrates being depleted of electrolytes, failing which it helps re-hydrate. Others still said there wouldn't be much hope.

The back edge of its head plate turned a lighter colour, and my overall impression was that it was premolt, and water had got in between the old and new skin. It was also doing a weird convulsion, like a very mild cough every few seconds with its head. I've seen pedes do full body coughs after drowning, so maybe it was "flooded" inside, if that makes sense.

The other day she became really sluggish, and I knew she was either going to moult or die, and then finally, last night she moulted, and ate her exuviae, which means her mouth parts are working again! It's still not home and dry as she needs to dry out (100% accidental pun) but fingers crossed she'll pull through, and I'll have a magnificent healthy sub-adult female viridicornis in my care.

Bumping up the temperature seems to have helped one of my E. trigonopodus moult too (they seem to spend ages in pre-moult even though they're at 5-8 cm stage).

So lessons learned:

- Pre-moult can last a long time, during which they may go back to eating, and may even be quite active, unlike T's which seem to be more clear cut (from what I remember).
- Don't use the drowning method to sex pede if you're not 100% sure it's not pre-moult (and even then, favour CO2)
- Don't give up on your pede because it's in a bad state. Ask for advice, try changing the parameters, try re-hydrating, never give up.

I'll post an update in a few days. Thanks to all who helped with advice, you know who you are!
 

LawnShrimp

Arachnoangel
Joined
Dec 9, 2016
Messages
907
Good to know. I plan on sexing a few of mine soon but fortunately they all have molted for the season already. However, mine had a very quick premolt; only refusing food for about a week and a half (maybe more) before changing color and molting the next day. This could differ between species though so maybe certain 'pedes spend less time in premolt.

I'm glad she turned out okay! Hopefully she won't have any problems now.
 

Draketeeth

Arachnoknight
Joined
Mar 22, 2015
Messages
209
Yikes! What a stressful series of events! Thank you for taking time to sit down and write it all out for everyone.
 

Scoly

Arachnobaron
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
Messages
488
I'm happy to say she is back to being a healthy pede with normal behaviour and feeding fine (fed 6 days after shed). Photos to follow, I don't have a decent phone camera at the moment.
 

Greasylake

Arachnoprince
Joined
Jul 23, 2017
Messages
1,324
I haven't seen my Subspinipes in about a month now but last week I dropped in a roach and the next morning the only thing left were the wings. However when I offered it a meal last night I expected the same result, but this morning the roach was still running around in the enclosure. I'm not sure if I should try digging around for the pede or just try to feed it again next week. It's last molt was about 2 or 3 months ago so I really doubt there's another one coming soon and I'm starting to get a little worried.
 

Galapoheros

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Messages
8,982
I've experienced pre-molt drowning, I don't know if I left a warning somewhere or not. It's true though, for some reason when they are premolt, they tend to take on water so turgor pressure builds up and it kills them, or can. I wouldn't do the water knock-out method even if they are fat from eating.
 

Scoly

Arachnobaron
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
Messages
488
I've experienced pre-molt drowning, I don't know if I left a warning somewhere or not. It's true though, for some reason when they are premolt, they tend to take on water so turgor pressure builds up and it kills them, or can. I wouldn't do the water knock-out method even if they are fat from eating.
I think you did leave a warning way back somewhere, which is where I go that from. I also have a friend, highly experienced keeper, who drowned his hardickii to death. I think I got away lucky!
 

Staehilomyces

Arachnoprince
Joined
Mar 2, 2016
Messages
1,514
I knocked out one of my pedes by drowning, but I knew it wasn't premolt because it molted about two weeks ago. Maybe I'll just have to resort to the CO2 method; my pedes are worth more than simple convenience.
 
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