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Pokie Venom Strength?

Discussion in 'Tarantula Questions & Discussions' started by WhyUBiteBite, Nov 9, 2017.

  1. WhyUBiteBite

    WhyUBiteBite Arachnosquire

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    So I know that no one has ever died from a T bite, but I am interested in if hospitalization would be required?

    Back Info: I have recently switched jobs and have to wait 90 days for insurance so hospitalization/ER isnt an option. That said I have a P. Regalis that is getting way too big for her current home and I would like to upgrade to her permanent enclosure. I have no sensitivities and would excercise all safeguards but as always you can never prepare for everything so that said there's my question above. I know a bite would SUCK like no other given their potency but in the event of the worst happening (aside from damage to her, thats much worse than a bite) would you be able to ride out the symptoms and just hate life until it went away or would it require an ER visit?
     
  2. Shampain88

    Shampain88 Arachnomental Arachnosupporter

    Well, that depends on your age and health I'd say... I've been bitten by two old world Ts, I got scared of the immense pain and went to hospital but those with a high pain tolerance could ride it out but the immediate pain lasts easily a good eight hours, then the cramps creep in, difficulty walking for days, waking up in the middle of the night with intense excruciating cramps that need to be walked off are awful... You have a hot shower that feels ice cold but turn the temp down and it feels boiling hot, weird... Tom Moran has great videos on rehousing with failsafe methods :)
     
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  3. WhyUBiteBite

    WhyUBiteBite Arachnosquire

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    30, healthy for the most part. Ill check those videos out though, Thanks!
     
  4. beaker41

    beaker41 Arachnoknight

    Bag method and you’ve got 0 chance of a bite. Which is a good %.
     
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  5. Poec54

    Poec54 Arachnoemperor Active Member

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    "I know that no one has ever died from a T bite."


    No, we don't know that. In third world countries hospitals are few and far between, and with people dying from disease, malnutrition, famine, contaminated water, snake bite, scorpions, etc. it's not like there's complete record keeping of deaths, or even doctors seeing them at all. Many of them illiterate. If someone gets bit in the head or neck by an OW tarantula, it's going to be more serious. If a person in a remote area dies from it, it not like it's a front page over there with so many dying from much bigger issues. Reactions to any venomous bites vary with the person's age, size, and health, and how much venom was injected and where. Pre-existing health issues can make a difference. You expect this kind of detail from a remote village in India?

    Do you think they're going to make a point of logging deaths and designating tarantula bites so that hobbyists in Europe & the US can accumulate data? They have a lot bigger things to worry about, like day-to-day survival. They think we're crazy for keeping tarantulas in our houses. We don't know how many people in third world countries die from snake bite each year, there's just wild guesses made. And they're a far bigger health hazard than any spider.
     
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  6. Chris LXXIX

    Chris LXXIX Arachnoemperor Active Member

    If a 'Pokie' bites you, remember to say to him/her, angry as .... this, at least: "WhyUbiteBite?" :)
     
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  7. WhyUBiteBite

    WhyUBiteBite Arachnosquire

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    Absolutley...after the profanity is passed. :D
     
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  8. Swede Baboon

    Swede Baboon Spooder Keeper Arachnosupporter

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    If it ever happens... i hope ill be calm enough to say: Hey !! Stop poking me with your teeth :angelic::angelic:
     
  9. Nightshady

    Nightshady Arachnopeon Active Member

    Take this advice FWIW...

    I’ve never treated a patient for a T bite, but I do have a medical background and have treated many poisonous snake bites as well as widow and recluse bites.

    My understanding of OW bites is limited to research I’ve done in the past month or so since I’ve got into keeping T’s. I don’t own an OW and certainly have never been bitten by one.

    T venom is a neurotoxin, similar to neurotoxins of many venomous snakes, but fortunately at a much lower potency. Unlike snake neurotoxins which have an affinity for autonomic neurons, T venom seems to have an affinity for motor neurons (that’s why cramping is reported so commonly) which makes them less dangerous. As far as potency goes, there is no reliable LD50 (lethal dose) data out there for T’s that I’ve seen. This is actually a good thing though as it means the bites are generally considered non-lethal to humans.

    As for what happens when you get bit - localized pain that is quite severe and eventual muscle cramps/spasms as the neurotoxin goes to work on your motor neurons. This reportedly can last days, weeks, or even months, but is not considered to be life-threatening. If you were to go to a hospital for a bite, they would give you pain meds and muscle relaxants.

    A bite does carry a possibility of severe complications. That would include anaphylactic shock, which is absolutely life-threatening; although I haven’t found any reports of anyone going into anaphylactic shock from an OW bite, anything is possible (and could happen from a NW bite as well). The other serious risk is a secondary infection of the bite site, which could result in septic shock, but would require you to ignore an obviously infected bite (this could also happen from a NW bite obviously).

    As for going to the hospital if you were bit... any medical person will say, “yes” go to the hospital, because they wouldn’t want to be liable if you were the one in a million person who could have a potentially adverse reaction that could become life-threatening or potentially debilitating.

    The real question I guess is what would a medical person do if they were bit and understood the pathophysiology of such a bite. If it were me (at 40yo and healthy with no medical conditions) and I had an OW and got bit, I personally wouldn’t go to the hospital right off the bat. I would take strong pain meds and muscle relaxants and wait it out. If I didn’t have any autonomic symptoms, and I just had the commonly reported pain and cramping, I would feel confident I could monitor myself appropriately, and I think the chance of me going to the hospital would be extremely unlikely.

    Would I recommend someone else do the same? Although I feel that a responsible person could manage their symptoms at home with medications, I would always tell someone... better safe than sorry. Go to the hospital even though it’s probably not needed and overly cautious.

    Not sure if this is helpful, but hopefully it was somewhat informative.
     
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  10. darkness975

    darkness975 a Dream Within a Dream Arachnosupporter

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  11. miss moxie

    miss moxie Arachnoprince Active Member

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  12. Nightshady

    Nightshady Arachnopeon Active Member

    Oh cool, there is some LD50 data out there. Of course it’s an individual paper on a specific species as opposed to a data table on all T species, but still it’s informative.

    Basically tells you that the venom is fairly mild, only being primarily dangerous to an infant based on LD50, unless there were secondary issues such as anaphylaxis, infection, etc.

    Thanks for the info!

    As for the venomous/poisonous thing... yeah, whatever haha. I got my point across. :)
     
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  13. 14pokies

    14pokies Arachnoprince Active Member

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  14. darkness975

    darkness975 a Dream Within a Dream Arachnosupporter

    I beat both you and @miss moxie to it, so I win the cake.
     
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  15. 14pokies

    14pokies Arachnoprince Active Member

    That you did... Guess I have to wear my skimmers cap for the rest of the night :sour:
     
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  16. miss moxie

    miss moxie Arachnoprince Active Member

    When I posted, your post only poked fun at poison vs venom. I remember reading it. ;) I win the cake.
     
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  17. Nightshady

    Nightshady Arachnopeon Active Member

    What are y'all talking about?

    EDIT - Nvm, I clicked on 'show ignored content' and it makes sense now. Congrats to all three of y'all for your rapid posting of that thread. I will reward each of you with a lollipop. You've earned it...
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017 at 8:00 PM
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  18. Walker253

    Walker253 Arachnobaron Active Member

    First off, don't get bit. Don't talk about it being a possibility. Come up with a plan to transfer the Pokie and do it. You've obviously done a few things with it like feed it and maybe done some maintenance. Take that confidence and keep it going.

    How big is regalis? What's coming out of and going into? Do it in the smallest room in the house. My house, it's the bathroom. Control the situation and stay ahead of it. Have a couple of catch cups. I find that rehousings aren't that bad, even with some of the most insane tarantulas. If you can, take everything out of the enclosure before you move it. Make things easier and control variables. Have confidence, stop wondering what happens when you get bit, and don't get bit.
     
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  19. Chris LXXIX

    Chris LXXIX Arachnoemperor Active Member

    I forgot to give you an answer.

    - Cons:

    Yes, the venom is brutal, IMO among the most powerful when it comes to T's, so probably (and I say probably, maybe you are a 'Terminator' when it comes to pain, who knows... :troll:) you will need an E.R visit (if nothing for remain in a 'safety area' zone, not due to the venom itself but post bite effects one/s, you never know if, and more important how, they can jump out).

    - Pro:

    In general they are pretty easy to deal with, they aren't so bitey like a lot of people can imagine (I mean, I'm saying this talking from a bit of experiece position I had with them, 'Pokies', and T's in general since '92). They are insanely fast, but in general they tend to hide instead of bite you.

    Definitely the list of OW's Theraphosidae more insanely defensive than 'Pokies' is long, including other Asian arboreals (or for that matter certain P.irminia I had).

    If you remain always careful, doing things with logic and a 'plan' (e.g no rehouse-transfers etc without calculating a bit, or things in a hurry) I'm sure there's no problems.
     
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  20. Chris LXXIX

    Chris LXXIX Arachnoemperor Active Member

    Another player of the 'lollipop' game? Amazing, High Five MacGyver :)
     
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