Pokie Bites!

[Bjorgly]

Are usumbraras (or however its spelt) considered a "pokie"? What is their bite like? I want one and i know their agressive and the chance is high i might get bit if at all careless. Anyone bitten by one?

Mark

 

[Haploman]

why dont you ...

check out the bites and stings report its in this website

 

[Haploman]

Phillip

people who know me I have a high tolerance to pain, in my life I had many many broken bones, in the bite and stings report I posted there when I was bitten by P ornata check it out the worse thing that happened to me with that was getting over the nausea and the vomiting, and what I stated in that thread there was exact

 

[belewfripp]

Lots of interesting things about this one. First is, he covered the jar with his hand. I have read before with regard to centipedes, and believe it to be true with Ts as well, that blocking their path of exit with a part of your body is asking for trouble. A T that wants to run and hits a roadblock will probably "feel" trapped -- in my experience, it is when they are up against a wall or feel cornered that they are likely to bite. If the body is used a a flat surface the T feels less trapped, and is more likely to remain in what I call flee mode. When the T has free running room, whether on the carpet, wall, other tanks or your body, they are more likely to keep fleeing and not start biting. This is conjecture based on my experience, not hard fact. I don't recommend free-handedly retrieving Old World or nasty New World Ts but sometimes a T won't give you a choice and decides to use your body as 4-lane highway.


The other interesting thing about this for me regards the symptoms. In my opinion, we don't have anywhere near the data we need to be able to establish a common denominator among bite victims and make any kind of real conclusions. The most I would offer regarding Poecilotheria is that a bite wherein venom is injected will likely be very unpleasant. What variables exactly determine just how unpleaant it will be seem to include venom quantity, bite location, victim's age, weight, etc. But we are far from knowing just how many variables there are, and how exactly they all play into this. This, ironically, seems to me to be due to the fact that people just don't get bit that often. This, for me, is the number one fact in favor of not legislating tarantula ownership: they don't seem to really want to bite. There are exceptions of course, Mike "troll" apparently has had some nasty run-ins with a mature male S. calceatum, but over all, biting seems like a last resort, even for Old Worlders. Threat posture, to me, does not indicate a desire to bite; it indicates that it will if it has to. The definition of 'has to' varies with species, etc., but for more docile Ts, the odds of being bitten are tiny, and for the responsible keepers keeping the more feisty kinds, it still seems low. Unfortunately, none of this is quantified and I could be wrong, but I think I'm at least partially correct.


The irony of course is that if more people got bitten, we might have the data we need to really evaluate the consequences of tarantula bites. In order to be more careful and forearmed with knowledge to deal with potential bites, we must expose ourselves to more danger and get bitten more! I wish many of these Ts were native to the U.S. so that a long history of bites could be found through a historical record without necessarily having had a frequent number of bites relative to the people who could have been bitten, but unfortunately this isn't so.


Adrian

 

[Phillip]

I've seen the bite report...

Like I said before I wasn't trying to make light of the bite nor was I saying it felt good. All I was pointing out is that many folks tend to over react when they get a boo boo if you will. On the broken bone/injury count I don't doubt that you've had a few but trust me I've probably had more from my younger and dumber days.
So far the count for whomever is interested would be as follows.
Left arm .. 13 breaks and a dozen or so dislocations
Right arm.. 7 breaks
Right knee.. broken twice and busted into 13 pieces once
Two broken collar bones
Several ribs once had two of them puncture a lung
Pancreas torn in half and splein gone ( wicked car wreck on that one )
And far too many other little nicks and bruises to mention.

My point is this. Does a poke bite feel pleasurable? Nope. Is it as bad as it is usually made out to be? Depends on your perspective of bad. Now this of course is not taking into account hyper sensitive people whom the venom really puts a hurtin on but most people aren't going to fall into that category.
Bottom line is you should probably avoid a bite whenever possible as no one wants to play guinea pig but I doubt it's going to send you for a ride on the meat wagon. I just can't see being overly worried about the effects of something to the point of giving the species an undeserved bad rep that's all.
Phil

 

[Kenny]

Hi all

Hi.

Well, I am getting a P.Regalis soon and I will treat the Regalis as any animal with venom it has and with the very respect for it .
Meaning; I don't want to get a bite from it.
As all of my other T's. They are animals with venom and even as I don't have any allergic ( I got bitten by 10+ wasps once at the same time and I just got a "numb" shoulder) problems,BUT, I still don't want to find out the bad way by getting a bite from anyone of my "babies"
I also agree with Phil that to give a particular T a bad rumour is bad because there are to many reactions to take in account like allergic reactions/sensibility, how old you are, and so on.

In my T room they are display animals with my 100% respect for the venom they have,,, whatever effect it may have.


Kenny

 

[Code Monkey]

Does a rattlesnake have a bad rep with herp keepers because it can kill or cause the loss of a limb? Or does it get cautious and well applied respect from those who chose to keep it, and cautious and well deserved avoidance from those who chose not to assume the risks?

No one outside of the T community is going to know a pokie from a rosie, the only people who are going to be affected by said rep are us. No, we don't have proof that Poecilotheria, Hysterocrates, Heteroscodra, and Selenocosmia have genuinely worse venom than B. smithi, but we do have a preponderance of evidence that they have worse venom.

Everyone should keep an open mind to the possibilities in both directions. At the same time, given what evidence is there, I think the fact that some here seem more concerned about the reputation of the spider than the welfare of newbies who might not be prepared seems somewhat irresponsible. Informed consent should be the mission statement - we can caution people that some bite reports might be exaggerated or inaccurate because of psychological perceptions of the event, but we shouldn't actively try to downplay real people's real reactions after a bite since no one knows exactly what caused what. Until someone does the clinical studies, or someone is personally bit so they know exactly how they'll react, I'd think people would be fools to not to treat a pokie as inherently more harmful than a B. smithi.

 

[Kenny]

Respect

Hi all.

Any animal with venom should be treated with a lot of respect; no matter what, if it's a bee keeper or a t keeper or a snake keeper, or a scorpion keeper: With respect.

Kenny

 

[Code Monkey]

Re: Respect

Originally posted by Kenny
if it's a bee keeper

Heh, don't know any beekeepers do you? I doubt my father has any clue how many times he's been stung over the years (I'm sure it's in the hundreds), and it's not from not treating them with respect, either, just goes with the territory.

Yes, any animal that can cause pain or harm should have your respect. Still don't see that equivalent with caution. As an analogy, I always treat all guns as though they are loaded, follow basic gun safety rules, etc. But, lets say you offer me a chance to fire an old 19th century antique you have, an antique that might have metallurgical faults that gives it a greater chance of misfiring and blowing up in my face. Now, this is an inherent risk of any firearm, but here I know the risk is probably greater. Hmm... do I really want to fire this gun, is treating it with the same respect I give my hunting rifle going to make a difference? I don't think so. All the normal respect in the world to keep from getting bit doesn't change the likely increased risk of harm if you do get bit. You need to make an informed decision based on *that* risk, not just assume it won't happen because you're always skilled and respectful with your Ts.

 

[Kenny]

Well..

Hi.

My point is that if you have any doubt with the animal in front of you with A venom ( read: allergic, whatever sensitive) bee, T, snake, be careful.
I have been stung by wasps and it was not nice although I didn't get a bad reaction from it and I'm not going to find it out the hard way with T's or scorpions for example since I have never been bit by a T or scorp, .

Gun 'a" as gun 'b' can harm you.
I treat all guns with respect, just that I don't want to feel the effect from the bullet from any gun.

Kenny.

 

[smithikeeper]

This has a couple bite reports of various Ts including P. Regalis. http://www.angelfire.com/my/vogelspinnen/bitereports.html

 

[Phillip]

Hate to call ya out Monkey but...

Look I really don't want to start any crap and certainly don't have the wish to enter a long winded debate over this Monkey but I have to point out that of course you are biased towards pokes being hot. That would be reflected in the fact that you have waited until now to get your 1st African due to being intimidated by the old world species. Is this a knock on you personally? Not at all. You just have to step back and look at the big picture here. The bite mentioned here resulted in what some nausea and vomiting. That's nothing that a good night of drinking won't give you. The fact is that you are correct in that there is no proof of them being harmful but you have as much as admitted to being intimidated by pokes in threads past so of course you are going to lean towards the pokes being bad news side of the debate.
I on the other hand have kept pokes for years now with no incidents so far as 1st they simply aren't aggressive they prefer to run. And 2nd even when they do bite you as uncomfortable as it may make you you are not going to die. No one has died from one yet and yes several have been bitten. If this were one of the topics you are well versed on I wouldn't argue the point but having no experience with them of your own you are merely going by what you have heard and not what you know.
Again I'm not going to debate this with you as I was never a fan of the debate club in the 1st place as you seem to have been. And again I am not jumping on you just pointing out that you are making this out to be a bigger danger than it is. The very fact that the one person to have posted a bite report here is alive and well admitting that the nausea was the worst part should illustrate that.
Phil

 

[Kenny]

of course not

,,,

any tarantula is just fine,,that's my point.

Tarantulas have been badly in the aim for bad romuors about venom and so on.

Just respect them for what they are and you can have any speices of them I think.

Kenny

 

[Code Monkey]

Re: Hate to call ya out Monkey but...

Originally posted by Phillip
Look I really don't want to start any crap and certainly don't have the wish to enter a long winded debate over this Monkey

No debate, just a clarification: I don't like pokes period. I don't find their markings particularly interesting, and I don't like their body plan. Aggressiveness and potential hotness has about as much to do with why I don't care for pokes as for why I don't care for T. blondi. If I ever got one, it would be purely out of curiosity to see if they grew on me like some other Ts I got on a whim have.

Now you are correct in saying that I, as a rule, have never been a big fan of aggressives, but that's everything to do with the personality and nothing to do with fear of being bit or venom. I've never doubted my ability to avoid said bites, just my desire to want to actually need to be wiley and cautious after two decades of caring for eight-legged paperweights. I changed my mind after getting my first threat display from a semi-aggressive and thought, "Oh, is that all?". It was more funny than intimidating. A month or so later, I decided to get that H. maculata I've been drooling over since I first saw photos of an adult. Trust me, if fear of venom were an issue, there wouldn't be a 7" subspinipes less than 3 feet from my head as I type this

I'm also not sure why the 'not going to die' has been brought up twice by you, because it was certainly never brought up by me or anyone else in the thread that I noticed, nor in the bite report that started this as best I remember. All I have tried to point out is that I find your, ahem, healthy skepticism a little disconcerting when you compare the bite reports of old worlders in general next to new worlders in general. Whether it's right or wrong, the *appearance* is that I could expect something less painful than a wasp sting from my B. emilia if she bit me, but if my maculata bit me I would experience a fair amount of pain and nausea at the very least. Not life threatening, not even a certainty, but certainly food for thought for the would be T owner.

 

[chaset]

Australian Hobby and Venoums T's

More so then the Pokies we keep in North America, Austrialian T's are reported to be hotter, and some people down there even keep Atrax Robustus in there collections,

 

[Wade]

The problem is that people who are new to the hobby are usually looking for simple answers. When doing educational programs with my spiders, a surprising number of people will point at a P. regalis and say "that one's deadly, isn't it?", At which point I go into the spiel "well, there have been no reports of anyone actually dying from a bite, but some people have reported severe reactions and many belive that this species MAY have more potent venom than most. On the other hand, they're not especialy aggressive and would usually rather run away..." You can practically see their eyes glazing over. What they want to hear is either "it's deadly" or "it's harmless". Of course, we all know that there's a wide range of possibilities between "deadly" and "harmless" but many don't want to hear it. Vague, non-commital answers just aren't satisfying, so the listener tends to take away what they want to in the first place. Still, though, a "word of caution" is always a good idea, as it is the only way to cover your own butt when handing out advice.

Wade

 

[Raveness]

The cramps are probably from gas.

 

[ithuriel]

hi , been reading some of the posts here and from what i see certain peeps just dont want to believe that so called hot Ts can really hurt you. im not going to go through whats already been said about the effects of venom on dif peeps and whatever but i will say that if you get bit through being careless and deluding yourself into thinking its not dangerous then more the fool you. think if one of my Ts bolted by the way i think id bolt too certainly wouldnt play capt. courageous n try to handle it

 

[Exodus]

That story is scary...

 

[belewfripp]

Originally posted by Code Monkey
Everyone should keep an open mind to the possibilities in both directions. At the same time, given what evidence is there, I think the fact that some here seem more concerned about the reputation of the spider than the welfare of newbies who might not be prepared seems somewhat irresponsible. Informed consent should be the mission statement - we can caution people that some bite reports might be exaggerated or inaccurate because of psychological perceptions of the event, but we shouldn't actively try to downplay real people's real reactions after a bite since no one knows exactly what caused what.

Agreed. The message I try to send to people who ask me about my Ts, are they dangerous, etc., is that caution and respect are called for, but not fear. Explaining to people why they need to be respectful can often include information that might make people fearful; it is tough to get the point across just so, but that is the message I try to send to people.


As for newbies, I think people new to keeping Ts shouldn't mess with the nastier species until they deal with a sort of downgraded version, so to speak. Personally, I found that dealing with Avicularia escapees, while not as bitey and not as fast, helped me prepare for speedier Ts better than a rosehair would. Likewise, maybe get a B. vagans or A. moderatum, both of which can be defensive and bitey at times, before going for something like a gigas or crawshayi. This is, of course, not taking into account the habitat styles of the species mentioned. I don't recommend this as a hard and fast rule, though; some people are very quick learners and can get started into feistier/faster spiders more quickly.


Bottom line for me is, unless the bite is dry or just has no reaction, something you won't know until after the fact, any unpleasantness is more than I would like to have. Is it worth raising a huge hullabulloo over? Probably not, but it is information worth having, I think.


Adrian