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Poecilotheria ornata (gynandromoph)

Discussion in 'Tarantula Questions & Discussions' started by Phalagorn, Feb 2, 2006.

  1. Phalagorn

    Phalagorn Arachnoknight Old Timer

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    Poecilotheria ornata (gynandromorph)

    Introduction:
    The word gynandromorph comes from the greek: gyne means female, andros means male and morph means form. A gynandromorph is an animal that are divided half female and half male, they have organs of both sexes and offen haves characteristic of sexual dimorphism like colour/patterns-differences, and differences of antennas, wings, claws and horns. Gynandromorphs has nothing to do about hermafrodism - It´s an rare genetic abnormality that appears in insects, arachnids and crayfishes.

    Earlier cases of gynandromorphs:
    Often gynandromorphs cant function as females nor males, and cant reproduce. But there is a case of a lobster, where the female produced a half batch of eggs. The lobster lost the eggs but a group of scientist managed to save a few that later developed to fully functional animals.

    More cases of gynandromorphs have been found in butterflies, jungle nymphs - Heteropteryx dilatata, leafs insects - Phyllium bioculatum, hissing cockroach - Gromphadorhina portentosa, beetles - Mecynorhina polyphemus confluens, grasshopper - Tropidacris collaris.

    And now to the most interssting... Spiders!
    It´s also had been found in wolfspider - Alopecosa pulverulenta. Two matings with one female has been noticed, it´s laying an eggsack, but unfortunately the eggs dosn´t develop.

    Poecilotheria ornata - Gynandromorph
    Could gynandromorphs occurs in Theraphosids? Yes, why not...
    My friend that owns this odd specimen called me and explain that his Poecilotheria ornata really looks wierd. He explains that half of the spider has nomal pattens and colours, while the other half reduced/faded patterns and are brownish. This get me thinking of gynandromorphs I reading about earlier. My friend came to me with this specimen that I study and took some photos of.

    That we all know it has turn up many coulourvariations latley, like coulor/patterns differences in aetae. But this specimen I saw was somthing more than usuals. According to me it´s no doubt that my friend has an Poecilotheria ornata gynandromorph in his collection!

    Both dorsal and ventral side has characteristic of sexual dimorphism, You can read more about it at my website: Sexing guide - Guide for revealing the gender of poecilotheria spp.: http://www.zoonen.com/perzoonen/artikel.asp?oid=233789 I also checked the ventral side of the abdomen, and here the epigastric furrow was a little bit sloping and has different thickness. The female-sides furrow was more white and opened, while the male-sides furrow was smaller and closed. Unfortunately I dosn´t got any good pictures of this.

    The genetical cause:
    Here I won´t get further in to this... I have several papers about gynandromorph at home, but it´s to difficult and to messy to explain more about this. It´s describtions about genetic, cells, cromosomes, autosomes, etc. But papers explains all in smallest detail how gynandromorphs develops.

    Left side - female, right side male.
    [​IMG]

    Here I took the upper picture and split the spider upp in half, copied and turn the respective sides reversed to show how clear and obvious the sexual dimorphism are in Poecilotheria ornata as the are well-known as.

    Left side - female, right side male.
    [​IMG]

    Upper part - female, lower part - male.
    [​IMG]

    Lower part - female, Upper part - male.
    [​IMG]

    Left side - mela, right side - female.
    [​IMG]

    I will take more pictures of this specimen later when it´s mature and my friend will bring some of the exuvia to me soon.

    Once agin, Sorry for my bad english!
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2006
    • Like Like x 4
  2. Whiskeypunk

    Whiskeypunk Arachnobaron Old Timer

    This is fascinating, and awesome. I'm suprised no one has responded to this. Please for the love of god keep us updated. I want know what happens with the Ultimate Molt. Do you think that it will only have one maturing molt, then die, or will it continue with a post ultimate molt, like a female? Also, is it just me or is the male side slightly smaller? Have you taken measurements to document it's size? Is it's tempermant pretty standard for a Poecilotheria? Do you think that this maybe more common in the hobby then we think, and we don't see it cause it has happened in far less sexually dimorphic species?

    I would totallly document every detail of this animal, maybe after it's death, send it off to an arachnidologist.

    Bad english? Pshaw, You have better english the 90% of the people on this forum.
     
  3. Alissa

    Alissa Arachnosquire Old Timer

    I have to agree with whiskeypunk, your english is excellent :D, especially in comparison to most native speakers.

    I would also be very interested in updates on this spider. Has anyone gotten a chance to examine an exuvium?
     
  4. eman

    eman Arachnobaron Old Timer

    This is fascinating! Thank you for sharing this data with us. I look forward to any sequels.

    Cheers!
     
  5. MRL

    MRL Arachnolord Old Timer

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    Great post. That was very interesting to see and read.
     
  6. Skypainter

    Skypainter Arachnoknight Old Timer

    Very interesting! If you get an exuvium, you should take a picture of it as you would to sex a molt and post that on the boards.
     
  7. Endagr8

    Endagr8 Arachnoangel

    This is awesome! :clap: Thanks for showing us, _bob_.
    BUMP ;)
     
  8. _bob_

    _bob_ Arachnobaron Old Timer

  9. How come there are few answers to this posts like this? This as awesome info and data. I have never thought that an animal could have two sides of different sexes. Anyone may have one and not know. Thanks for sharing this (although it's three years old)
     
  10. BrynWilliams

    BrynWilliams Arachnoprince

    What a brilliant post! I've never heard nor seen anything like this in the world of Ts. Please keep us updated when you get to look at the exuviums (better yet, post pics so we can all sit and go 'wow' {D )
     
  11. Noexcuse4you

    Noexcuse4you Arachnodemon Old Timer

    Here's some photos I took of my buddy's P. striata gynandromorph.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Travis K

    Travis K TravIsGinger Old Timer

    This just proves how nice old threads can be. And I learned something new today:D
     
  13. burmish101

    burmish101 Arachnobaron

    Whoa this is awesome, just imagine being ablt to breed it to females and breed males to it. If it works would be one amazing spider but one thing worries me. The lifespan of the mature male, any thoughts on how this would effect the spider as a whole, or half?
     
  14. pandinus

    pandinus Arachnoking Old Timer

    according to the OP the majority of the time these specimens are infertile.




    John
     
  15. I've never heard of one that was fertile. I know a guy who owns a zoo in the Shenanndoahs, he has a hermaphrodite cappuchin. It has a penis and a vagina but lacks testicles or a healthy uterus, it has NO sex drive. It usually acts more like the males than the females.
    TBH
     
  16. G. pulchra

    G. pulchra Arachnogod Old Timer

    What an awesome thread, I've never heard or seen this before. Thank you.
     
  17. WelshTan

    WelshTan Arachnoprince

    great thread, u can defo see the diff in the male n female sides. . . in size n colouring. . .very strange but also very fascinating too
     
  18. BrynWilliams

    BrynWilliams Arachnoprince

    Probably one of the oldest threads resurrected that I've ever seen {D
     
  19. burmish101

    burmish101 Arachnobaron

    So about a year after the male side matures, will the whole spider die or half of it?! This is interesting as ive never thought this was possible lol.
     
  20. I am speechless O_O

    I'd love to see what a moult of this would turn up. Has anyone gotten any updates?