Poecilotheria hybrids

[Amoeba]

People say they don't want them... I think they would cave in and order them though, also there's def. a huge interest in it judging by the amount of past threads started and the attention they get. I think there is a decent amount of variety in the amount of species available though. Look at the difference between Ornata, Miranda, Subfusca, Metallica etc...
I think the fact that pokies evolved into so may different species shows how much potential there is there.
Nature isn't being messed with, they would stay in the hobby. Actually, due to habitat loss, they probably won't be in the wild forever anyway. Selling more and creating interest is good for the species.

I never said they couldn't be sold. If you think there is a decent amount of variety why are you proposing someone mess with it? There are 900+ species of tarantula and you think we need fake species :laugh: With an attitude like yours you are very correct they won't and I find this to be an unbelievably ignorant statement.

I'm going to conclude by saying that I hope that everyone who tries to make a hybrid get's a munched male, a molting female, or mold in the sac.

-Lovingly signed a fierce paranoid advocate against hybrids and ignorance for a dollar. :biggrin:

 

[charlesc84]

I'm curious to see what they would look like, I think someone should just do it. I know I would buy one.

 

[MattInNYC]

P.S. I would rather own a P tigrinawesseli or P regalis than a P metallica.

Who are you kidding? Everyone wants P. metallica. The only reason I don't have one is because they cost at least twice as much as almost everything else (aside from rarer ones like P. smithi).

 

[ShadowBlade]

Who are you kidding? Everyone wants P. metallica. The only reason I don't have one is because they cost at least twice as much as almost everything else (aside from rarer ones like P. smithi).

Negative ghostrider... I'm not a fan of them either. Just because a lot of people give in to hype doesn't mean they're all that freaking amazing. There are other way cooler spiders in my humble opinion.

-Sean

 

[MattInNYC]

Negative ghostrider... I'm not a fan of them either. Just because a lot of people give in to hype doesn't mean they're all that freaking amazing. There are other way cooler spiders in my humble opinion.

-Sean

Hype? Really, they have all the other traits of Poecilotheria that most people seem to love, the proportions, the speed and agility, and they also look absolutely ridiculous. Maybe this "hype" is the fact that they're more eye catching than almost any other tarantula? Certainly if you show someone who's not familiar with tarantulas a bunch of pictures of species, and P. metallica is one of them, I guarantee most people will ask what that one is first.
Also, coming here since 2006, I've seen quite a lot of threads about and pictures of P. metallica, it seems like a lot of people want them, If the demand wasn't there the prices wouldn't be there either.
Don't get me wrong, I think if P. regalis was just coming into the hobby now you could probably sell those for $500+ too, because it also looks amazing. I don't think that takes anything away from P. metallica though.

What do you actually dislike about them? I like all the Poecilotheria species since there's such a wide variation of markings and colors, I can't even say that any one is my favorite.
Come on though, being into tarantulas and saying P. metallica isn't that great is kind of like being into cars and not appreciating a high revving V12. Even if it's not your favorite, objectively it's pretty impressive.

 

[jayefbe]

I think people would buy them. Pokies are very popular everyone would want a hybrid. Imagine a P. Metallica the same size as P. Ornata?
Also, why do you keep mentioning that you can tell the difference between 2 pokies? I don't see how this is relevant to my initial question.

---------- Post added 01-12-2012 at 01:57 AM ----------



Ok, the other threads are pretty much people saying the same thing. Seems like paranoia to me.

This just displays a pretty clear misunderstanding of genetics. Cross a P Metallica to an ornata, you'll end up with one butt ugly spider. The only way you could ever introgress one trait into another species would require many generations of selective breeding. Even if it was "super rad to the max" it's just not feasible, even from a "business" standpoint.

I found what naturally occurs from millions of years of natural selection to be beautiful. No amount of selective breeding and hybridization will ever beat that. There's no point to it. None.

Hybrids have and will muddy up this hobby. It's very easy to misidentify species already, hybrids will only make it worse until we finally have no idea what we have anymore. I will never buy from or sell to anyone who engages in hybridization or supports it. That's how strongly I feel about this issue.

 

[charlesc84]

This just displays a pretty clear misunderstanding of genetics. Cross a P Metallica to an ornata, you'll end up with one butt ugly spider. The only way you could ever introgress one trait into another species would require many generations of selective breeding. Even if it was "super rad to the max" it's just not feasible, even from a "business" standpoint.

I found what naturally occurs from millions of years of natural selection to be beautiful. No amount of selective breeding and hybridization will ever beat that. There's no point to it. None.

Hybrids have and will muddy up this hobby. It's very easy to misidentify species already, hybrids will only make it worse until we finally have no idea what we have anymore. I will never buy from or sell to anyone who engages in hybridization or supports it. That's how strongly I feel about this issue.

What's the misunderstanding of genetics? How you personally know that crossing Metallica and Ornata would be ugly?
Should people of different races not mix?
I'm not saying crossing them would simply produce a huge P. Metallica, I'm just saying that there's a lot of possibilities with hybrids.

 

[LittleSister]

Should people of different races not mix?

Human races are diffrent species? Wat.

 

[NickC4]

I never said they couldn't be sold. If you think there is a decent amount of variety why are you proposing someone mess with it? There are 900+ species of tarantula and you think we need fake species :laugh: With an attitude like yours you are very correct they won't and I find this to be an unbelievably ignorant statement.

I'm going to conclude by saying that I hope that everyone who tries to make a hybrid get's a munched male, a molting female, or mold in the sac.

-Lovingly signed a fierce paranoid advocate against hybrids and ignorance for a dollar. :biggrin:

Amoeba, I totally agree. With over 900 spiecies, who needs more? And personnaly I think that it would be hard to tell the difference between a hybrid and a true pokie.

 

[Shrike]

What's the misunderstanding of genetics? How you personally know that crossing Metallica and Ornata would be ugly?
Should people of different races not mix?
I'm not saying crossing them would simply produce a huge P. Metallica, I'm just saying that there's a lot of possibilities with hybrids.

This is not a good comparison. Human beings of different races are still of the same species. P. metallica and P. ornata are two separate species.

 

[Amoeba]

Fun fact from a sociology major: Race is a social construction and has no real biological merit.

Also I'm not impressed by the P met.

 

[Crysta]

Should people of different races not mix?
I'm not saying crossing them would simply produce a huge P. Metallica, I'm just saying that there's a lot of possibilities with hybrids.

OMG...people thing that?....hahahha sorry...im laughing...omg... lol...

Dude...do you know what a hybrid is?

It's not like breeding a chiwawa to a dash hound.
Domestic Dogs are all the same thing

It's not like mating the chinese with a south american
Humans, are all the same species... (hopefully)

We and dogs just evolved based on our location of our genetics(some inbreeding for a few locations.)

Peockies...on the other hand... have a separate species... it's like breeding a Monkey to a chimp...or a gorilla to a human.(my examples are abit radical atm...lol).. basically.. Until otherwise proven they are different.

 

[Hobo]

Hey guys, what breed of tarantula is your favorite?

My favorite color is blue, that's why they're my favorite breed of tarantula is a metallica.

 

[jayefbe]

What's the misunderstanding of genetics? How you personally know that crossing Metallica and Ornata would be ugly?
Should people of different races not mix?
I'm not saying crossing them would simply produce a huge P. Metallica, I'm just saying that there's a lot of possibilities with hybrids.

I'm so glad that others pointed out your flawed logic already. Oh yeah, and of course I don't think that, I'm multi-racial myself. So is my girlfriend.

I'm assuming it will be ugly because most of the "attractive" traits are polygenic and only arose through thousands of generations of natural selection (and possibly drift) acting on isolated populations. Once you cross them, you're going to produce an intermediate form that is neither ornata, nor metallica. There are a lot of possibilities with hybrids, but none that I think are positive. All you'll end up with is unidentifiable, bland spiders that will eventually enter the breeding pool because people will forget what they have, or sell them as one of the parental species (already happened!). I'd hate to one day look at B. boehmei and long for the days when their legs were actually bright orange, or wish that Poecilotheria "species" actually looked different from one another like they did at one time. Those are the possibilities I see.

 

[charlesc84]

Yes I'm aware of what a hybrid is. I brought up the race issue to bring up a point.
The pokies are all very similar, what makes them different FOR THE MOST PART(yes I'm aware they're from different places) is their coloration.
Calling them different species doesn't matter if they can still breed.
You guys have this absurd desire to try and point out every perceived flaw in a statement you possibly can.
You all know what I'm trying to say, why do you act like you don't?
I don't see the point in playing stupid. I want to see one INTELLIGENT argument on why there shouldn't be hybrids. I bet not one of you has one.


Also, how do you know they would come out ugly? You don't know that, there's no way to know that without actually experimenting.

---------- Post added 01-12-2012 at 03:21 PM ----------

Human races are diffrent species? Wat.

Did I say that?
I said RACES not SPECIES.

Do you take every statement you hear this literally?

 

[deltakiloworks]

Hey guys, what breed of tarantula is your favorite?

My favorite color is blue, that's why they're my favorite breed of tarantula is a metallica.

Lol, me Tarzan jump cliff...ouch..that smarts...me Tarzan jump another cliff...

nice one Hobo.

 

[LittleSister]

Did I say that?
I said RACES not SPECIES.

Do you take every statement you hear this literally?

Well you did compare mixing two diffrent species with mixing two diffrent races, so yes I took it that way :sarcasm:

 

[catfishrod69]

The main problem i see with crossbreeding is once you get all these new species floating around, what happens to the other ones...species that we love and have in the hobby good, will be forgotten, and dissapear forever. not really worth it...besides look at leapord geckos, and alot of snake species...its kind of rediculous... i admit that some of those snakes and leos look awesome, but really do we need 5,000 different colors of the same species?

 

[Chris_Skeleton]

Sorry that some of us hobbyists actually want to buy a pure species rather than P. miranda x ornata x subfusca. There's no point in hybridizing and as time goes on pure species will fade out. How about you give us some of these benefits you are speaking of?

Tell me how intelligent this is:
You are advocating hybrids yet....

Actually, due to habitat loss, they probably won't be in the wild forever anyway. Selling more and creating interest is good for the species.

So because they probably won't be in the wild too much longer we should take all the pure species and crossbreed them? I think you are the one who needs a better argument.

 

[charlesc84]

Well you did compare mixing two diffrent species with mixing two diffrent races, so yes I took it that way :sarcasm:

It was just an analogy, maybe it wasn't the best one. It doesn't really matter though.
No one has showed any proof that hybrid pokies are bad in any way, shape or from.
When I see the proof I'll believe it, until then it's just paranoia.