Phasmid Eggs Sold Online

Kookookachu

Arachnopeon
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
17
I see you edited your post but I’ll respond to it anyways. For starters take a look at the application process for importing https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ou...and-soil-permits/insects-and-mites/CT_Insects

EVERY eBay seller I looked at was from another country. As stated above, it may not be illegal for them to export these to you so it isn’t a problem for them. Its a problem for you if you don’t have the permits to import any insect. As for phasmids specifically I’m not sure, but where there is smoke there is usually (but not always) fire.
In an attempt to once and for all resolve this issue and provide guidance to both myself and other hobbyists, I’ve contacted APHIS/USDA and asked, among other things, if the possession of non-indigenous captive born Phasmid species is in violation of any federal rules, regulations, or laws. The reason I asked specifically about possession rather than importation is that the dealer on FaunaClassifieds <edit> is located in Florida and the nymphs he’s offering are captive-born. So “importation” is not an issue, just “interstate” movement and the animals have not been collected from the wild but bred by them.

When I receive a response to my query from the government agency, I’ll report it here.
 
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MetalMan2004

Arachnodemon
Joined
Oct 14, 2016
Messages
676
In an attempt to once and for all resolve this issue and provide guidance to both myself and other hobbyists, I’ve contacted APHIS/USDA and asked, among other things, if the possession of non-indigenous captive born Phasmid species is in violation of any federal rules, regulations, or laws. The reason I asked specifically about possession rather than importation is that the dealer on FaunaClassifieds <edit> is located in Florida and the nymphs he’s offering are captive-born. So “importation” is not an issue, just “interstate” movement and the animals have not been collected from the wild but bred by them.

When I receive a response to my query from the government agency, I’ll report it here.
Thats great. I really look forward to hearing what they say. It is a government entity though so i’m sure you’ll have an answer in the next 6-8 weeks. ;)
 
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pannaking22

Arachnoemperor
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 25, 2011
Messages
4,226
Interstate movement is still illegal without various permits, even with native species, doubly so if they're being moved out of their native range. I'm curious to hear what they have to say though!
 

Kookookachu

Arachnopeon
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
17
Its very interesting how you all claim to know about this alleged Phasmid Ban and warn everyone about the consequences of noncompliance, yet, you’re all silent when it comes to other prohibitions.

For example, are you aware that its a violation of federal law to mail arachnids via the U.S. postal service. That transporting and possessing most species of mantids is illegal. I never hear about the “Mantid Ban” being spoken of on Arachnoboards? Likewise, with beetles and assassin bugs.

Just thought I’d put that out there.
 

MetalMan2004

Arachnodemon
Joined
Oct 14, 2016
Messages
676
Its very interesting how you all claim to know about this alleged Phasmid Ban and warn everyone about the consequences of noncompliance, yet, you’re all silent when it comes to other prohibitions.

For example, are you aware that its a violation of federal law to mail arachnids via the U.S. postal service. That transporting and possessing most species of mantids is illegal. I never hear about the “Mantid Ban” being spoken of on Arachnoboards? Likewise, with beetles and assassin bugs.

Just thought I’d put that out there.
If you use the search function you’ll see that not long ago there was a rather large thread about the fact that shipping USPS is illegal.

I don’t know if assassin bugs, beetles or mantids are legal or not. If they are then people should have the same stance on those as with phasmids. Once again, I am very interested to see how the USDA responds to your questions so this can all be put to rest.

I will also say that the repurcussions of shipping USPS are far less than possession and sale of illegal animals, both from a legal standpoint and for the environment. If you ship USPS and something happens to a package a T dies. You may also face a fine. Import/ possession/ sale of illegal animals leads to release of invasive species that can wreck the environment and can lead to huge fines and jailtime for the perpetrator. Which one sounds more severe to you? Either way, don’t commit a crime if you aren’t willing to pay the price.

That being said, I’m not sure why you keep getting worked up over people telling you that you shouldn’t do something that (they believe) is illegal.
 

Andee

Arachnobaron
Arachnosupporter
Joined
Jul 1, 2013
Messages
411
I mean if you are going to do it, you are going to do it. I am sure a lot of people have. I have stick insects but they are a native species in my area... or at least now easy to collect in the wild, whether they were here originally would be interesting to know.

Edit: All we are saying is it's dangerous in many ways. But we can't convince you not to buy them.
 

miss moxie

Arachnoprince
Joined
Jun 13, 2014
Messages
1,804
Its very interesting how you all claim to know about this alleged Phasmid Ban and warn everyone about the consequences of noncompliance, yet, you’re all silent when it comes to other prohibitions.

For example, are you aware that its a violation of federal law to mail arachnids via the U.S. postal service. That transporting and possessing most species of mantids is illegal. I never hear about the “Mantid Ban” being spoken of on Arachnoboards? Likewise, with beetles and assassin bugs.

Just thought I’d put that out there.
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/usps-shipping.200345/page-2 -- Dead thread, linked to the page where it is picked back up in 2017.

http://arachnoboards.com/threads/if-only-the-carrier-new-what-was-in-the-box.297074/#post-2667756

http://arachnoboards.com/threads/shipping-via-usps.287843/

http://arachnoboards.com/threads/u-s-bans-millipede-and-mantid-importation.41395/

;)
 

Andrea82

Arachnoemperor
Joined
Jan 12, 2016
Messages
3,686
Its very interesting how you all claim to know about this alleged Phasmid Ban and warn everyone about the consequences of noncompliance, yet, you’re all silent when it comes to other prohibitions.

For example, are you aware that its a violation of federal law to mail arachnids via the U.S. postal service. That transporting and possessing most species of mantids is illegal. I never hear about the “Mantid Ban” being spoken of on Arachnoboards? Likewise, with beetles and assassin bugs.

Just thought I’d put that out there.
Because people simply accept those limitations and move on without making a big fuss about it.
 

RodG

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 21, 2006
Messages
196
It really is not worth it at all! The risks are very real and the consequences nasty!
 

pannaking22

Arachnoemperor
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 25, 2011
Messages
4,226
For convenience's sake I'll just copy over what I just said in a different thread.

1)www.aphis.usda.gov
2) e-authentication...will require you to haul your a** to the local USDA-PPQ office to be verified
3) go back to APHIS website click on permit...sign in if you have been authenticated
4) Fill out Permit PPQ 526
5) Fill out additional questionaires from the USDA as they arrive
6) be willing to provide photos of the place your keeping the sticks
7) pass a home visit from your local APHIS PPQ officer
8) Wait 80 days or more for your permit
9) Expect regular home visits
10) most permits are only good for 3 years and then the process starts over (don't let the old permit expire in the mean time!).
This should do the trick, it's not impossible (but close), I currently have five permits for 10 different arthropods. My hissing roaches are permitted because technically only G. portentosa does NOT require a permit. I have permits for three species of exotic millipedes (technically all millipedes are exotic if they cross state lines). AGB's definitely need a permit.
Keep in mind that quote was from 2012, so some info might be a bit dated. While there isn't a rule that states this in black and white, I guarantee that if you're importing phasmids you'll be submitted to scrutiny and not having the proper permits could be an issue. Same will go with if you're moving them across state lines.

Rules and regs will vary state by state too. Some states might be ok with certain species being brought in, while others will ban all of them (FL, CA, etc.). You'll need Permit PPQ 526 pretty much regardless.

Where this would likely be covered is under the Lacey Act, which prohibits basically anything that consumes plant matter in any form. Is it vague? Holy crap yes. However this allows them to come check out these phasmids if they so choose to. You might not get picked off as quickly as someone who has giant African land snails, but you'll still likely make your way onto some list where something may or may not happen to you. Here's a link to the Lacey Act - https://www.fws.gov/le/pdffiles/Lacey.pdf

The biggest concern of all of this is that consistent breaking of rules may lead to much stricter rules where all of a sudden things that were kind of ignored (say, some of the exotic millipedes or roaches) are all of a sudden a big target.

Calling USDA-APHIS and FWS would probably get you a quicker answer than waiting on an email, or you could go to your local USDA or FWS office and talk to someone about it. I'm really curious to hear if they take the rules as vaguely as they are written or if they have a clearer read of it.
 
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