PETA and HSUS

[The Snark]

:sarcasm:jecraque! Tsk tsk. Shame on you. You should know better than to attempt to instill common sense into things.:sarcasm:

Let us look at the alternative scenario. The Humane Society makes an honest rubber stamp for a movie:
Very few animals were maimed and killed in the making of this movie.
Megamovie $Studio$ looked over the blood drenched movie set and saw that one coming. They made a tax projection that the movie would turn a box office projection of $500 million in the first 20 minutes. Only grossing $2.5 million in the first 20 weeks they declare a loss of a couple three hundred million $$$. Then with tax documents in hand as irrefutable proof of loss of income, they turn around and sue the Humane Society into paleolithic dust.

((In the early 1980's Louisiana Pacific logging and land rape specialists got caught with their hand in the cookie jar up to their armpit. A few square miles of watershed was completely destroyed, they cut down trees that didn't belong to them and so on. The court slapped their hand severely, among other things forcing them to replant the old growth redwood forest with fast growing soil destroying pine. But Louse de Pacific saw that one coming. Their 3 year tax projection placed their profit at $1.5 billion but they only realized $600 million. $900 million was claimed in loss of revenue they would have had if they had been allowed to rape even more of the Klamath River headwaters of the Trinity National Forest. A friend of mine, holder of stock in LP from her late husbands golden parachute, received a $65,000+ bonus dividend check for that little legit scam))

 

[viper69]

I held out for a while, but I'm finally posting on this thread because of this article. I'll try to refrain from too much comment myself but I'm genuinely curious what others think here. Warning: some of the images are a bit graphic.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/feature/

One thing I will say--despite the clearly deeply flawed system we have in place, I am glad we do have some regulatory agency. My partner and I are movie buffs, especially older movies and foreign films, and have seen some cringe-worthy stuff on screen. I think there has been some backlash from the public in China, but there have been some really awful war scenes involving horses in relatively recent films. I wouldn't go the PETA-suggested all-CGI route but some rules should be established and duly followed...

I'd wish I could say this surprises me, it doesn't. Thanks for posting this. If these were people injured or killed on the set, there would be huge "problems", but it's only other animals, so who gives a crap. I had no idea Steven Spielberg was a horse killer. GREED GREED GREED.

 

[jecraque]

:sarcasm:jecraque! Tsk tsk. Shame on you. You should know better than to attempt to instill common sense into things.:sarcasm:

Let us look at the alternative scenario. The Humane Society makes an honest rubber stamp for a movie:
Very few animals were maimed and killed in the making of this movie.
Megamovie $Studio$ looked over the blood drenched movie set and saw that one coming. They made a tax projection that the movie would turn a box office projection of $500 million in the first 20 minutes. Only grossing $2.5 million in the first 20 weeks they declare a loss of a couple three hundred million $$$. Then with tax documents in hand as irrefutable proof of loss of income, they turn around and sue the Humane Society into paleolithic dust.

((In the early 1980's Louisiana Pacific logging and land rape specialists got caught with their hand in the cookie jar up to their armpit. A few square miles of watershed was completely destroyed, they cut down trees that didn't belong to them and so on. The court slapped their hand severely, among other things forcing them to replant the old growth redwood forest with fast growing soil destroying pine. But Louse de Pacific saw that one coming. Their 3 year tax projection placed their profit at $1.5 billion but they only realized $600 million. $900 million was claimed in loss of revenue they would have had if they had been allowed to rape even more of the Klamath River headwaters of the Trinity National Forest. A friend of mine, holder of stock in LP from her late husbands golden parachute, received a $65,000+ bonus dividend check for that little legit scam))

I know, I know. Silly me, right?

Seems like a pretty big tax loophole if you can just aim high and collect the difference. I'm not at all surprised that the companies that can afford the best legal representatives can get away with it, but... yeesh.

The way I see it, there are two alternatives for the future of animal use in US entertainment:
1) we can go the libertarian route, and make ethics optional, a la Chinese war epics. An independent AHA could give films a gold star for exceptional animal treatment, the way the Marine Stewardship Council does with sustainable seafood products--slap a sticker on the front and those that care will buy only those products, while everyone else will go on assuming all those deaths were CGI and the companies will still rake in the big bucks. But no one will be the wiser if the AHA isn't allowed on set, and the extent of mistreatment will go entirely undocumented.
2) we can require that the entertainment industry follow the same laws as the rest of the country, and at least fine them for noncompliance (blacklisting repeat offenders) in addition to omitting the little gold star. It would have to be taxpayer funded, of course, and adequately funded, to prevent the kinds of shenanigans Snark mentioned as well as the things the article mentioned about AHA watchdogs getting too friendly with their flock. The paperwork required to document care and use would be similar to what is currently used in research.

Now, maybe there are other alternatives I'm not creative enough to come up with, in which case, sorry. Here's what shouldn't happen, though, especially: whatever happens on-set, the movie still gets a gold star, still gets released on time, and the worst thing that might happen is they change the wording from "No animals were harmed" to "We didn't see any animals harmed, honest" and the the Hobbit makes it's $500 mil in the first 20 minutes, easy. Sooo... there's that.

---------- Post added 12-02-2013 at 02:47 AM ----------

I'd wish I could say this surprises me, it doesn't. Thanks for posting this. If these were people injured or killed on the set, there would be huge "problems", but it's only other animals, so who gives a crap. I had no idea Steven Spielberg was a horse killer. GREED GREED GREED.

That seems to be the bottom line, for sure. Spielberg might not have done it directly, but with his money/influence, if he cared about the welfare of his animal "actors" he'd have hired competent people and taken adequate precautions. It clearly is not a priority in the industry.

 

[viper69]

That seems to be the bottom line, for sure. Spielberg might not have done it directly, but with his money/influence, if he cared about the welfare of his animal "actors" he'd have hired competent people and taken adequate precautions. It clearly is not a priority in the industry.

He's the "CEO" of the film, the buck stops w/him as far as I'm concerned. With someone like him, he approves of his animal actors known as Homo sapiens, same for the non-homo sapien animal actors too.

 

[The Snark]

3) A bunch of politicians wives, (ala Tipper Gore & friends) get together as they did when they appointed themselves the moral conscience of the recording industry, they lobby their husbands into a similar witch hunt, and filled with righteous indignation they tell Hollywood how it shall be lest they bringeth downeth uponeth them the same hellfire and brimstone congressional inquisitions. (See Frank Zappa vs the Mothers of Prevention)
4) Get PETA riled up enough to swing their weight down upon those Hollywood jackasses.

 

[jecraque]

3) A bunch of politicians wives, (ala Tipper Gore & friends) get together as they did when they appointed themselves the moral conscience of the recording industry, they lobby their husbands into a similar witch hunt, and filled with righteous indignation they tell Hollywood how it shall be lest they bringeth downeth uponeth them the same hellfire and brimstone congressional inquisitions. (See Frank Zappa vs the Mothers of Prevention)
4) Get PETA riled up enough to swing their weight down upon those Hollywood jackasses.

Gah! I just knew I was forgetting something in there! PETA will prevail.

 

[The Snark]

An associate of mine worked at the stables Paramount pictures used. As he explained, "Animals are cheap props for movies. The wranglers handling the animals are pure dirt and better keep their mouths shut if they want to keep their jobs."
To show how much attention Hollywood pays to the animals, that guy worked on a set in a John Wayne movie. Might have been 'How the West was Won'. In a series of scenes you can see Wayne ride into a town on one horse, be sitting on a different horse when talking to somebody, tying up a third horse at a hitching rail and a while later riding out of town on the first horse. Nobody noticed or cared.

 

[jecraque]

An associate of mine worked at the stables Paramount pictures used. As he explained, "Animals are cheap props for movies. The wranglers handling the animals are pure dirt and better keep their mouths shut if they want to keep their jobs."
To show how much attention Hollywood pays to the animals, that guy worked on a set in a John Wayne movie. Might have been 'How the West was Won'. In a series of scenes you can see Wayne ride into a town on one horse, be sitting on a different horse when talking to somebody, tying up a third horse at a hitching rail and a while later riding out of town on the first horse. Nobody noticed or cared.

Perhaps because a horse is a horse, of course, of course!

 

[The Snark]

Perhaps because a horse is a horse, of course, of course!

(Holding my shaking head in my hands and moaning) I wish. Filming with horses is a nightmare and the most time consuming part of making a movie by far. Nearly all movie stars can't ride for beans and look like a sack of potatoes when the horse trots. So...
The horse needs to start moving easily with just a nudge or two, going into the appropriate walk, trot or canter very quickly or it's off camera. It has to work beside other horses and not want to race. It also can't stable nag and wait to follow another horse. It has to stand stock still at certain times without any restlessness. It has to have a very smooth trot. It has to canter at a pretty precise speed and very smoothly. It has to go eactly where it is supposed to, often in spite of stupid jerks on the reins telling it to go somewhere else. It has to walk, trot or canter right up to a hitching rail and stop at the exact right place without mincing. It cannot balk. It cannot kick. It cannot wicker or whinny. It must keep it's head pointed in the correct direction. It cannot toss it's head or it must toss it's head at the precise time. It cannot walk sideways. It cannot back up or shy. It must not rear or it must rear on command. It cannot restlessly 'paw' the ground. And above all, it must be rider sensitive and help to keep the sack of potatoes on it's back.

And then the tack. That horse has to have a hackamore, those work with curbs. That saddle looks like a tiny stool on one horse, a giant overcoat on that one there. Stirrups too long. Too short. Loose cinches. Belly cinch. Breast straps, butt straps, broken, short or too long latagos. Reins too long. Too short. Tied. A loop. And then grooming the horse. Mane too short. Too long. Forelock in eyes. Looks like a private in the army hair cut. Swishing tail. Hairless tail. Scars cuts or scrapes. Moan.

And then of course the horse. No drooling, slobbering, head shaking, scratching, rubbing, snorting, rolling, erections, dribbles, peeing, pooping, farting, proud tail, nodding/bobbing/tossing, biting, nipping, lip curling, white eyes, ears back, prancing, single footing or high head.

Now think about a movie set. Blowing a half million dollars a day. Loaded with prima donnas, idiots and all kinds of gadgets doing zillions of random horse spooking things, impatience running and ruling everything and the wranglers taking all the heat.


They had one horse at paramount when I was there that avoided all the yelling and abuse. It was THE horse to have an actor on who was talking to somebody at a stand still. We could lead the horse out, place him and he would stand there like a statue regardless of the rider and what was going on around him. He just had two problems. You would raise his head up where you wanted it then after a couple of minutes it would start to droop and he'd fall asleep. The other problem was he was a nondescript roan with excellent conformation, almost built like a thoroughbred, But he had ridiculously short legs and stood at 13 hands. So taller riders stirrups would be danging way below his barrel near the ground. So all filming of him had to have the camera down near the ground and only get the upper half of the horse.

 

[viper69]

3) A bunch of politicians wives, (ala Tipper Gore & friends) get together as they did when they appointed themselves the moral conscience of the recording industry.

I thoroughly despised their behavior on that issue, nothing but pure ATTEMPTS at total CENSORSHIP, the same for video games too! Such a PARADE of hearings with their antiquated mode of thinking. The attempts to undermine the US entertainment industry is wrong in that aspect. It's one of the few sectors where the USA exports and makes a TON of money, it's either number or very close as an export (it makes more than all the sports leagues combined)

I wonder if all those older people who hopped on the censorship bandwagon back then were opposed to all the "evil rock and roll" of the 60s and Elvis's gyrations on the Ed Sullivan show that were initially banned from TV, somehow I doubt it.

 

[SamuraiSid]

What we need is an mandatory olfactory channel on home entertainment systems. Let people smell the leaking bile and blood of gunshot wounds, the mix of feces, meats, sanitizing agents and concentrated flavoring chemicals. The fantastic smell of 'crispy critters', people who have managed to become incinerated and the seared flesh odor combines with the melted plastic in their clothing. The galactic rainbow of odors of various mixtures of barf people spew as rescuers work on them. And let's not forget the subtle differences in odors of animals turned inside out. Untrivialize all the maiming and agony just a bit and bring it home to peoples brains through their sinus. And more than likely the people will add some odor of their own as they leave their dinners on the living room carpet.

Since we are talking about good food. Do you happen to know the origin of some asian dishes being served full? I was told, a long time ago, that the whole fish would be displayed on the plate so that those eating it could "pay their respects" in some regard, to the animal they were eating. It might have been my mother a long time ago, or my grandmother, who was Filipino. But I have learned not everything an Adult tells their child is the truth. Sometimes you gotta lie to save face


Meanwhile in good ol' North America we are constantly trying to turn whole, real food into consumer goods, like chicken nuggets. mmmmm, I love me some chicken nuggets and I swear to you, sometimes you can even taste the tumour. Thats not a joke Due to all the drugs the chickens often develop breast tumours which get turned into processed chicken bits. Its like when you get a corn sized piece of cartilage in your hot dog. My wife gets disgusted by it. I get to finish her hot dog Damn, now Im getting hungry. God bless the American Dream

 

[viper69]

Meanwhile in good ol' North America we are constantly trying to turn whole, real food into consumer goods, like chicken nuggets. mmmmm, I love me some chicken nuggets and I swear to you, sometimes you can even taste the tumour.

Hey Chicken Nuggets are good wholesome food on par w/the finest Parisian dish!

As for tumors used in food...C'mon man, don't you know the USA is just trying to be extremely efficient with our resources, just like in every other policy the gov't puts forth!?

 

[The Snark]

Since we are talking about good food. Do you happen to know the origin of some asian dishes being served full? I was told, a long time ago, that the whole fish would be displayed on the plate so that those eating it could "pay their respects" in some regard, to the animal they were eating. It might have been my mother a long time ago, or my grandmother, who was Filipino. But I have learned not everything an Adult tells their child is the truth. Sometimes you gotta lie to save face

The only reason I know people leave the heads on fish is many people consider the cheeks the tastiest part and the heads are often used to season soups and stews. In certain locales it used to be common to leave a foot on a mammal so you could tell a puppy from a cat from a rat and so on at a glance.

 

[jecraque]

The only reason I know people leave the heads on fish is many people consider the cheeks the tastiest part and the heads are often used to season soups and stews. In certain locales it used to be common to leave a foot on a mammal so you could tell a puppy from a cat from a rat and so on at a glance.

I'm not gonna lie, I learned the fish cheeks thing from reading Amy Tan in middle school and have felt deprived ever since. Never thought about it at an opportune time (like in a seafood market) though.

 

[PlaidJaguar]

I had a whole fish at a Filipino restaurant once. Once I got over the initial shock (I was expecting a fillet!) I really liked the concept. The fish was extremely delicious, and not a scrap of meat was wasted. Well, except the eyes. The waitress told me the eyes were her favorite, but I couldn't bring myself to eat them...

 

[viper69]

I had a whole fish at a Filipino restaurant once. Once I got over the initial shock (I was expecting a fillet!) I really liked the concept. The fish was extremely delicious, and not a scrap of meat was wasted. Well, except the eyes. The waitress told me the eyes were her favorite, but I couldn't bring myself to eat them...

The eyes are actually quite healthy for you. This was interesting... I heard an interview by a guy (who didn't eat eyes) who was lost in the south Pacific for quite a while at sea. However, while you are lost and your body is in that starvation mode, the brain WILL make you eat things you would never eat, AND make you think they tasted good. So at one point his brain took over, and he started eating fish eyes and said they tasted like cherries. Survival is a powerful condition.

 

[PlaidJaguar]

The eyes are actually quite healthy for you. This was interesting... I heard an interview by a guy (who didn't eat eyes) who was lost in the south Pacific for quite a while at sea. However, while you are lost and your body is in that starvation mode, the brain WILL make you eat things you would never eat, AND make you think they tasted good. So at one point his brain took over, and he started eating fish eyes and said they tasted like cherries. Survival is a powerful condition.

That's interesting! How scary to be lost and starving. Glad your friend made it. It is really fascinating how much the brain can do to keep us alive.

I'm normally a pretty adventurous eater, but I had a bad experience trying to dissect a cow's eyeball with a hopelessly dull scalpel when I was 12. Ruined me forever.

 

[The Snark]

I'm normally a pretty adventurous eater, but I had a bad experience trying to dissect a cow's eyeball with a hopelessly dull scalpel when I was 12. Ruined me forever.

Just clamp that sucker in a vice and have at it. We'll send PETA around to give you a ration later. (If we go by the PETA bashers on this forum they may demand you be spayed/neutered and you submit a close relative as a hostage against your future conduct.

 

[Bigboy]

They are scum pure and simple. Fat bloated festering corpses stuffed full with the money of the uninformed hopeful do-gooder. I won't even bother revisiting this thread I have such disdain for both organizations.