PETA and HSUS

viper69

ArachnoGod
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And you just made MY point! Turtles have been here longer than humans, so they've definitely had time to adapt. They've had literally all the time in the world. The problem here isn't that they don't have time to adapt, it's that they don't adapt quickly enough. And that is a heavy selection pressure. The sad fact is that the planet will lose many species as a result of Homo sapiens.

Now please don't mistake my intentions. I'm a bleeding heart, save the animals, eco-friendly kinda girl. I cry when I see pictures of animals harmed by human carelessness. But from a purely scientific standpoint (which is extremely fun to discuss!) and more specifically evolutionary theory, Homo sapien is a wildly successful apex predator which is simply cutting down other, less successful predators. Just as smaller, faster, more adaptable mammals stole the show from the great reptiles of the prehistoric era, the great ape is taking over where other creatures used to rule. There isn't a moral imperative built into the process--that's something we invented, and is a wholly unique concept. Oh what I would give to be a fly on the wall in biology lectures a thousand years from now!

You crack me up Plaid :) See you made MY point again. HOW could sea turtles have all the time in the world to adapt to plastic, when plastic hasn't been around since their inception as a species? They can't, it's not possible. =) This ties into what I meant by if modern man was around since sea turtles at the same point in time, perhaps things would be different.
 

PlaidJaguar

Arachnoknight
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Darned bleeding heart liberal animal protection fanatic. Grrr.

...

Just to point something out. If we take the worst case scenario of what is happening to the world at this time, we could very well be facing an apocalypse as great as, and on the planetary time scale close to the wham of 65 million years ago. Possibly even faster. Even if the scenario isn't all that bad, there are enough facts in right now to clearly demonstrate that we have altered and are altering the living conditions of earth WAY WAY WAY faster than anything evolution could possibly counter. That translates as the extinction of as many species as the wham and the ice age.
In other words, no, there is no moral imperative. It's much closer to 'sink or swim'. Clean up our planetary act or go under. And on that note, homo sapien is not all that wildly successful. Unless you call the wham of that giant comet successful.

* The Mockery Bird
You said it. That's why I'm a darn bleeding heart liberal. ;P


Viper, I'm still not following your logic. Why would throwing plastic at them earlier in their development cause them to adapt faster? Are you saying that brand new sea turtles would have been more adaptable than the same species thousands of years down the line? Why?
 

viper69

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You said it. That's why I'm a darn bleeding heart liberal. ;P


Viper, I'm still not following your logic. Why would throwing plastic at them earlier in their development cause them to adapt faster? Are you saying that brand new sea turtles would have been more adaptable than the same species thousands of years down the line? Why?
Oh, I've not written that introducing plastic would increase the rate of evolution. What I am saying is sea turtles (as an example) have had millions of years to evolve, but of all the various selection pressures they have had to adapt to, not one of those was man-made until man arrived. So how could they possibly adapt now after all this time of evolving without plastic as an example. The same can be said for light pollution for the sea turtle hatchlings. They use a few natural cues, one is light, to guide them to the ocean. But we know that hatchlings which emerge from the sand near bright lights use the bright lights as a cute and navigate away from the ocean and of course die. They didn't develop over millions of years with both man-made lights and natural light, and developed a mechanism to determine which is natural light leading them to water, and which is mad-made light leading them to certain death. But maybe if "all of a sudden" sea turtles had initially evolved in the presence of man of millions of years, they MIGHT have determined a mechanism to determine which light was natural, and which was mad-made. That's all I'm saying. =)
 

SamuraiSid

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I think its safe to say that Homo sapien hasnt been able to adapt to plastic or any of the other toxic forces they introduce into their environments. Screw the Turtles, save the Homos!!!

Whether the reason comes down to morality, greed, ignorance, power, etc.
 

viper69

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I think its safe to say that Homo sapien hasnt been able to adapt to plastic or any of the other toxic forces they introduce into their environments. Screw the Turtles, save the Homos!!!

Whether the reason comes down to morality, greed, ignorance, power, etc.
The world is run by money, that's the only reason, you are correct. It's easier and cheaper to pollute the incredibly scarce amount of fresh drinking water, than it is to follow the law, and implement and develop methods to prevent it. If man's lifespan was LONG, like hundreds or thousands of years (like trees) I think things would be quite different on this issue.
 

The Snark

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I thought man has adapted to plastics. What the heck is that stuff the hot dog crud is injected into. It's sure not intestines anymore.

Why are sea turtles involved in the evolution discussion. It's an established fact that the slower the metabolism of the animal, the slower it is to evolve and adapt.
 

viper69

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I thought man has adapted to plastics. What the heck is that stuff the hot dog crud is injected into. It's sure not intestines anymore.

Why are sea turtles involved in the evolution discussion. It's an established fact that the slower the metabolism of the animal, the slower it is to evolve and adapt.
I was using sea turtles as example a few posts back that's all..no special reason.
 

SamuraiSid

Arachnodemon
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I thought man has adapted to plastics. What the heck is that stuff the hot dog crud is injected into. It's sure not intestines anymore.
No need to pick on Hot Dogs. They are full of connective tissues, ligaments and all kinds of amino rich tissues that help make up part of the "whole prey" diet we largely ignore :sarcasm:

Why are sea turtles involved in the evolution discussion. It's an established fact that the slower the metabolism of the animal, the slower it is to evolve and adapt.
Thats just like you, coming in here with your "facts" and "science".
 

The Snark

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No need to pick on Hot Dogs. They are full of connective tissues, ligaments and all kinds of amino rich tissues that help make up part of the "whole prey" diet we largely ignore :sarcasm:
Thats just like you, coming in here with your "facts" and "science".
Yeay! Full circle! ~I believe I can fly~.
I remember visiting the restricted area of a Chi town slaughter 'house'. House my arse. Giant factory assembly line. The steers led down the shoot, the pneumatic thump thing - painless killer, the hooks sunk in the animal and it is winched in the air. The disembowling, more hooks and knives, tearing the skin from the carcass. All USDA and friends approved procedures. One steer after another in an endless line running 24 hours a day.
And this pile cum puddle of crud. The empty trimmed carcass goes off one way on an overhead trolley thing and there is this pile on the smooth concrete floor. Two guys with flat shovels move the pile into a chute. Another guy with a hose blasts the feces in a somewhat different direction. I commented to him, "Yuck" as pile and dribble was sort of mixed up. He grinned at me and hosed some of the green slush into the chute.

Ah! The chute. All the leftovers. I schluck on down that way in the processing plant. The giant blender/eviscerator/muncher/cruncher/grinder where the non beef beef goes. It was mainly powered by a 3 phase Westinghouse<tm> 15 horse motor. There was another machine but I couldn't see the size of it's motor. That took the resulting goo of machine 1 and pulverized the bits of bone that got into the mess. All the munching was done before the cooking vats so the stuff would be sterile. Then the chemicals. The reek was pretty bad as cleaning agents outside the machines and pipes mixed with the flavorings and coloring agents. Those agents were delivered in railroad tank cars and pumped into storage vats to be injected and mixed into the stewing goo. Then way down at the end of the processing room was the injector filler thingy. Not much to see. Just big machines making noise. The grey goo, now all pink and tasty getting injected into that plasticish tube fed from giant spools.
And TADA! Pure all beef hot doggies! The USDA permits no more than (I think) 6% filth in processed foods. I never was sure if that was by weight or volume. Does the U.S. Gov measure poo and bile by weight or volume? PETA beware!

Yup. Me and my facks and stackistics. What a dork I be.
 

Anonymity82

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I wrote out this whole thing and decided the potential for butthurt was too high and I'm not in a mood to argue with people I'll probably never meet and God knows wouldn't know if you didn't introduce yourself in person so I'm just going with this.

WE NEED TO START A PROGRAM TO NEUTER HUMAN BEINGS IN MASS NUMBERS. Yup, I said it and I mean it. Although I'm hoping my sperm count is too low anyway (can't explain here, but I do have a really good reason I'm hoping this) I will happily take the first step in this campaign if this means that millions of others will too. I fear we should also neuter gay men. Why? Well, money's tight.

Step one: Neuter human beings

Step two: ?

Step three: Big profit.

(for you southpark people).

Butthurt disclaimer: I'm not trying to talk down to those of you who have kids are plan on it. I don't think less of any of you whether you care or not (hopefully mostly not, since I don't really know most of you). Not for having kids that is or wanting to. I'm curious what a little me would look like and act like but then I get visions of fire, helicopters, handcuffs, blurry images of dismembered bodies and think better of it. Well, I was a bit of a trouble kid and I do not have the patience my parents did.
 
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The Snark

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njnolan1, I don't know if you noticed that you slid on over to the far far right there. IE, the guvermint's opposition to LGBT marriages and a certain religion's vehement hatred of same. As George Carlin pointed out, what group of people are less likely to produce offspring, pollute the gene pool and load up the welfare roles with random progeny? That religion's opposition to LGBT marriages is truly extremely fantastically bizarre in that -those people- don't use or need birth control and don't have abortions. Their favorite two pet rants.

So before we are forced to label you a somethingphobe, we will accept your abject apologies by your crawling 9 miles on your hands and knees to throw rocks at the popes poop. Thanking you in advance. :cool:


PS "You aren't going to outweird me. I find stranger things than you in my breakfast cereal." -Z. B.-, Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy


:worship:{D;P:fury::unsure:;P:barf::clap:;P{D:};P
 
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SamuraiSid

Arachnodemon
Joined
Sep 30, 2010
Messages
758
Yeay! Full circle! ~I believe I can fly~.
I remember visiting the restricted area of a Chi town slaughter 'house'. House my arse. Giant factory assembly line. The steers led down the shoot, the pneumatic thump thing - painless killer, the hooks sunk in the animal and it is winched in the air. The disembowling, more hooks and knives, tearing the skin from the carcass. All USDA and friends approved procedures. One steer after another in an endless line running 24 hours a day.
And this pile cum puddle of crud. The empty trimmed carcass goes off one way on an overhead trolley thing and there is this pile on the smooth concrete floor. Two guys with flat shovels move the pile into a chute. Another guy with a hose blasts the feces in a somewhat different direction. I commented to him, "Yuck" as pile and dribble was sort of mixed up. He grinned at me and hosed some of the green slush into the chute.

Ah! The chute. All the leftovers. I schluck on down that way in the processing plant. The giant blender/eviscerator/muncher/cruncher/grinder where the non beef beef goes. It was mainly powered by a 3 phase Westinghouse<tm> 15 horse motor. There was another machine but I couldn't see the size of it's motor. That took the resulting goo of machine 1 and pulverized the bits of bone that got into the mess. All the munching was done before the cooking vats so the stuff would be sterile. Then the chemicals. The reek was pretty bad as cleaning agents outside the machines and pipes mixed with the flavorings and coloring agents. Those agents were delivered in railroad tank cars and pumped into storage vats to be injected and mixed into the stewing goo. Then way down at the end of the processing room was the injector filler thingy. Not much to see. Just big machines making noise. The grey goo, now all pink and tasty getting injected into that plasticish tube fed from giant spools.
And TADA! Pure all beef hot doggies! The USDA permits no more than (I think) 6% filth in processed foods. I never was sure if that was by weight or volume. Does the U.S. Gov measure poo and bile by weight or volume? PETA beware!

Yup. Me and my facks and stackistics. What a dork I be.
You paint a purty picture. Ive seen this on documentaries and would want to see it in person. Might re-sensitize me. I certainly dont agree with how animals are treated and with all the **** we add to our "food". But at the same time Im a rational guy and am perched comfortably on the fence.



I wrote out this whole thing and decided the potential for butthurt was too high and I'm not in a mood to argue with people I'll probably never meet and God knows wouldn't know if you didn't introduce yourself in person so I'm just going with this.

WE NEED TO START A PROGRAM TO NEUTER HUMAN BEINGS IN MASS NUMBERS. Yup, I said it and I mean it. Although I'm hoping my sperm count is too low anyway (can't explain here, but I do have a really good reason I'm hoping this) I will happily take the first step in this campaign if this means that millions of others will too. I fear we should also neuter gay men. Why? Well, money's tight.

Step one: Neuter human beings

Step two: ?

Step three: Big profit.

(for you southpark people).

Butthurt disclaimer: I'm not trying to talk down to those of you who have kids are plan on it. I don't think less of any of you whether you care or not (hopefully mostly not, since I don't really know most of you). Not for having kids that is or wanting to. I'm curious what a little me would look like and act like but then I get visions of fire, helicopters, handcuffs, blurry images of dismembered bodies and think better of it. Well, I was a bit of a trouble kid and I do not have the patience my parents did.
Hmmm, if you have a low sperm count, maybe you have a personal vendetta against those of us that can have kids? j/k

In all seriousness my wife and I are mostly on the same point with this stuff, although she is definitely the "glass half-full" one. We plan on having only one child.

But this is the PETA thread, and in dedication to President Newkirk, your going to have to neuter those gay men yourself;)
 

Anonymity82

Arachnoprince
Joined
Aug 12, 2011
Messages
1,579
njnolan1, I don't know if you noticed that you slid on over to the far far right there. IE, the guvermint's opposition to LGBT marriages and a certain religion's vehement hatred of same. As George Carlin pointed out, what group of people are less likely to produce offspring, pollute the gene pool and load up the welfare roles with random progeny? That religion's opposition to LGBT marriages is truly extremely fantastically bizarre in that -those people- don't use or need birth control and don't have abortions. Their favorite two pet rants.

So before we are forced to label you a somethingphobe, we will accept your abject apologies by your crawling 9 miles on your hands and knees to throw rocks at the popes poop. Thanking you in advance. :cool:


PS "You aren't going to outweird me. I find stranger things than you in my breakfast cereal." -Z. B.-, Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy


:worship:{D;P:fury::unsure:;P:barf::clap:;P{D:};P
While I try to decipher your paragraph let me just say that I'm not a phobe of any sort. Well, kids do scare me. But not gay men or women or the people in between. My first thought was "Well, gay men wouldn't need to be neutered" but then I thought of the black market price for sperm if we did start neutering and it wouldn't matter if you were gay. Just get that in a cup, syringe and bammo. Payment up front, meet me here next Friday and you'll get the rest when a baby pops out.
 

The Snark

Dumpster Fire of the Gods
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
11,048
You paint a purty picture. Ive seen this on documentaries and would want to see it in person. Might re-sensitize me. I certainly dont agree with how animals are treated and with all the **** we add to our "food". But at the same time Im a rational guy and am perched comfortably on the fence.
What we need is an mandatory olfactory channel on home entertainment systems. Let people smell the leaking bile and blood of gunshot wounds, the mix of feces, meats, sanitizing agents and concentrated flavoring chemicals. The fantastic smell of 'crispy critters', people who have managed to become incinerated and the seared flesh odor combines with the melted plastic in their clothing. The galactic rainbow of odors of various mixtures of barf people spew as rescuers work on them. And let's not forget the subtle differences in odors of animals turned inside out. Untrivialize all the maiming and agony just a bit and bring it home to peoples brains through their sinus. And more than likely the people will add some odor of their own as they leave their dinners on the living room carpet.
 

Anonymity82

Arachnoprince
Joined
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Messages
1,579
You paint a purty picture. Ive seen this on documentaries and would want to see it in person. Might re-sensitize me. I certainly dont agree with how animals are treated and with all the **** we add to our "food". But at the same time Im a rational guy and am perched comfortably on the fence.





Hmmm, if you have a low sperm count, maybe you have a personal vendetta against those of us that can have kids? j/k

In all seriousness my wife and I are mostly on the same point with this stuff, although she is definitely the "glass half-full" one. We plan on having only one child.

But this is the PETA thread, and in dedication to President Newkirk, your going to have to neuter those gay men yourself;)
I promise you, no vendetta lol. My wife can't afford something so we have had to explore other options. Other options that personally affect me. Personally... oh so personally. I equate it to eating with a nice coating of vasoline in your mouth. I only know there's food because of the texture, but still there's no flavor.

My contribution to the PETA thread. I hate you PETA. You go away, you go away and you die.
 

The Snark

Dumpster Fire of the Gods
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I promise you, no vendetta lol. My wife can't afford something so we have had to explore other options. Other options that personally affect me. Personally... oh so personally. I equate it to eating with a nice coating of vasoline in your mouth. I only know there's food because of the texture, but still there's no flavor.
My ex's 3 year old half sister smiled beguilingly as her dad took a bite of the sandwich. Unable to reach the jams and jellys, she sensibly substituted vaseline in the first PB&J... PB&V? she had ever made. She waited for the compliments. The recognition.
 

Anonymity82

Arachnoprince
Joined
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Messages
1,579
My ex's 3 year old half sister smiled beguilingly as her dad took a bite of the sandwich. Unable to reach the jams and jellys, she sensibly substituted vaseline in the first PB&J... PB&V? she had ever made. She waited for the compliments. The recognition.
LOL, very, very funny story.
 

Atalictasia

Arachnopeon
Joined
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Messages
2
Both of these organizations make me sick. They want to ban all pet ownership, close down all zoos, and ban all hunting (and hunters have contributed more to environmental restoration and protection then any other group). The HSUS confuses a lot of people into thinking that they are donating to the American Humane Society - this happened to my parents until I educated them with the truth.
My Boss is a Avid Hunter. He goes to Africa as well as to all different countries. He goes when they have to many animals and they need to do an animal control. The Animals he does hunt he has the native villagers skin them and then my boss will donate all the meat to the villages. Could you imagine how much meat is donated when you have 6 or more hunters and each hunter has like 8 or more tags to hunt. He can ask for money it wont be a lot but he can but he doesn't he "gives" it to them. He can also keep the meat and have it sent back home, but he doesn't. He keeps the skins so he can bring the skins home and have the taxidermist make his animal trophies. I was against this at one time but when I found out the background to it all It made me feel good to know he just didn't shoot for the thrill but also to help the surrounding villages in feeding them because he can go other places and hunt for only the kill as well. In the pictures he brings home to show us you can see how much the villagers appreciate him and his son so much. So Good does come out of hunting
 

The Snark

Dumpster Fire of the Gods
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My Boss is a Avid Hunter. He goes to Africa as well as to all different countries. He goes when they have to many animals and they need to do an animal control. The Animals he does hunt he has the native villagers skin them and then my boss will donate all the meat to the villages. Could you imagine how much meat is donated when you have 6 or more hunters and each hunter has like 8 or more tags to hunt. He can ask for money it wont be a lot but he can but he doesn't he "gives" it to them. He can also keep the meat and have it sent back home, but he doesn't. He keeps the skins so he can bring the skins home and have the taxidermist make his animal trophies. I was against this at one time but when I found out the background to it all It made me feel good to know he just didn't shoot for the thrill but also to help the surrounding villages in feeding them because he can go other places and hunt for only the kill as well. In the pictures he brings home to show us you can see how much the villagers appreciate him and his son so much. So Good does come out of hunting
Tell your boss to take all the money he spends, plane fares included, and donate it to something worthwhile like Doctors Without Borders or any of dozens of aid operations. Probably deliver a thousand pounds of food and medications for every pound of meat his phallic fetish gives a few villagers. It's a complete joke to think imported hunters can do the animal control job the local people can't. The fact is a number of countries forbid the locals from hunting so they can attract safari tourists and stuff money in authority pockets.
 
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jecraque

Arachnobaron
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Messages
342
I held out for a while, but I'm finally posting on this thread because of this article. I'll try to refrain from too much comment myself but I'm genuinely curious what others think here. Warning: some of the images are a bit graphic.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/feature/

One thing I will say--despite the clearly deeply flawed system we have in place, I am glad we do have some regulatory agency. My partner and I are movie buffs, especially older movies and foreign films, and have seen some cringe-worthy stuff on screen. I think there has been some backlash from the public in China, but there have been some really awful war scenes involving horses in relatively recent films. I wouldn't go the PETA-suggested all-CGI route but some rules should be established and duly followed...


I promise you, no vendetta lol. My wife can't afford something so we have had to explore other options. Other options that personally affect me. Personally... oh so personally. I equate it to eating with a nice coating of vasoline in your mouth. I only know there's food because of the texture, but still there's no flavor.
You and your wife do know that Obamacare and all private insurers are now legally obligated to provide women's preventative care, including contraceptives, with no co-pay, right??? Look into that!
 
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