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Pandinus dictator vs. imperator

Discussion in 'Scorpions' started by Daniel Edwards, Sep 23, 2017.

  1. Galapoheros

    Galapoheros ArachnoGod Old Timer

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    I saw that too the reddish tint but it reminded me of a young adult, they can stay reddish colored for a long time. But it also looks to be on the smaller side unless Siderum has Tony Robbins hands haha.
     
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  2. Siderum

    Siderum Arachnopeon Arachnosupporter

    Lol, I have fat hands.

    Color is an unreliable differentiating factor in Pandinus, and, as you mentioned, is subject to change.



    As far as the specimen I posted, unless the literature is wrong, the scorpion is P. imperator. The trichobothria have been closely inspected.
     
  3. The following are brief descriptions of P. imperator and P. dictator based on my research of the existing literature, as well as personal examination of specimens of both species.

    Description of Pandinus imperator: Length 120-220 mm. Base color uniformly brown to reddish black. Legs colored as body. Only the telson may be lighter, usually reddish brown in adults and yellow in juveniles. Carapace weakly granulated with deep sagittal furrow with forked, Y-shaped furrow on each side in posterior part. Tergites weakly granulated in posterior and lateral areas, forming carinae. Sternites smooth. Pectinal teeth number 15-19. Spiniform formula of tarsomere II on legs I-IV = 4/3: 4-5/3: 4-5/2-3: 4-5/2-3. Tarsomere II with 2 spines on inclined anteroventral surface. Pedipalps with dorsal surface of chela granulated, chela with 3 internal trichobothria and 9-14 ventral trichobothria. Length to depth ratio of 4th metasomal segment greater than 2.

    Description of Pandinus (Pandinopsis) dictator: Length 100-180 mm. Base color uniformly blackish brown to black. Legs colored as body. Only the telson may be lighter, usually reddish brown in adults and yellow in juveniles. Carapace strongly granulated with shallow sagittal furrow with forked, Y-shaped furrow on each side in posterior part. Tergites granulated, particularly in the posterior and lateral areas, forming carinae. Sternites smooth, except the last one, granulated. Pectinal teeth number 12-15. Pedipalps with dorsal surface of chela strongly granulated, chela with 2 internal and 4 ventral trichobothria.

    Note: I have yet to examine the spiniform formulas of tarsomere II for this species, and I cannot find this information in the literature I currently have access to. When I get the chance I will determine this.
     
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  4. OK guys some updated pics... I guess someone could be ballsy and call LLL Reptle and ask them where they got them from or who they imported them from. They still have them listed for sale. All of mine are healthy, active, and eat great. Tonight... they are all active and ALL 3 wanted to KILL me, but I managed to handle 2 of the 3. All tried to sting me and grab me however. Again... these have a much deeper green-blue than all the "Emperor Scorpion"s i'm used to accordingto my experience n the pet industey in the past, and owning many specimens from 1995 to about 2008. I do not ever remember them being as green-blue under even regular light!!!
     

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  5. They were sold to me as dictator, not imperator. Thoughts? I love them regardless. I have 2 males and 1 female and home to try to breed them come spring.
     
  6. Galapoheros

    Galapoheros ArachnoGod Old Timer

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    Those are imperators, looks like you have a pretty big one. Any reason you're waiting to breed them? If you breed them now you might get babies in Spring or Summer.
     
  7. No real reason other than waiting out the chilly virginia winters. we get ice and snow storms and i live in an old house that loses heat in the winter time to time. I figure continue to feed them well and let them settle more. Maybe rehouse them even better. I dont care what exact species they are as long as I can positively ID them at some point. Ive never been so hung up wanting a positive ID before. But why am I noticing a deeper teal color? Am I just paying more attention than before?
     
  8. Size wise, i'm a medium size guy, wear medium size gloves to put the hand in perspective.
     

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  9. Galapoheros

    Galapoheros ArachnoGod Old Timer

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    They 100% not dictator. Imperators are more smooth like yours and the have a distinct triangular feature behind the eyes like yours do. I had some comparison pics but Photobucket hijacked everybody's pics but I managed to recover a few.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Excellent help! I need to get better with the last few pieces to get an ID for sure. I appreciate the help, one of the best! Thanks for the pics! I'll keep you posted!
     
  11. Galapoheros are you on FB where I could chat and share pics much more readily?
     
  12. Galapoheros

    Galapoheros ArachnoGod Old Timer

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    Well I realized I had already posted those pics in this thread. You may want them to be dictators so bad that you're grabbing at any hope but those are imperators, I could esp. tell by your last pic. I know they at least aren't what was labeled "dictator" that were imported a year or two ago. But I also remember somebody saying they had legally got the paperwork done to import dictator a few years ago, don't know what was going on there. No, I never did get a FB account. You can use a good camera or even strong reading glasses to look at the difference.
     
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  13. EzraGarrison

    EzraGarrison Arachnopeon

    Thank you to everyone here for all the information! My girlfriend ordered a dictator for me for Christmas from Underground Reptiles. It arrived today and I was skeptical that it was an actual dictator based on my knowledge from years ago in the pet industry, combined with the fact that the container was labeled "Emp". Thanks to the detailed info provided by all you wonderful people, I was able to positively identify this as an imperator, just as I expected. We're now in the process of requesting a refund from Underground due to receiving the wrong species, which also happened to be missing half its rear, left leg. Thanks, guys! Much appreciated!
     
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  14. Edd Eskimo

    Edd Eskimo Arachnosquire

    What do y'all think? Imperator or Dictator? I'm leaning towards Dictator.
     

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  15. Siderum

    Siderum Arachnopeon Arachnosupporter

    P. dictator are rare in the pet trade. If you can flip your scorpion over, look at the chela for the trichbothria mentioned in other posts. If you shine the light on them just right, you can even see them with the naked eye. They have a brownish ring around the projection, and look different than the bumps (granulation). Using uv light also makes them more visible.

    Let's just say this--a lot of people swear up and down it's this or that, but don't trust them unless they are using the latest scientific literature to id them.
     
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  16. Edd Eskimo

    Edd Eskimo Arachnosquire

    I got them from repticon from a dealer on this site.
     
  17. Galapoheros

    Galapoheros ArachnoGod Old Timer

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    Those are imperators, definitely not dictators.
     
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  18. Edd Eskimo

    Edd Eskimo Arachnosquire

    I don't mind if they're either Imperators or Dictators. I would just like to know what they are 100%. They were sold to me as Dictators.
     
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