P.regalis mating questions

[scytherhuang]

Hello:
Just had a mature male P.regalis molted on 2016/5/15 and confirmed sperm web on 2016/5/25.
So I tried to mating and put Male into AF's enclosure,but the male had no interest in mating,there's no tapping behavior at all and the male just want to leave the enclosure.
By the way, the AF's last molt was on 2015/11/25.

Is there anything I can do to make them mate?Or I should just try another day?
it would be grateful if I could get some advice.

 

[Flexzone]

I was reading around forum-land and found this thread, In this post from @Poec54 http://arachnoboards.com/threads/p-regalis-breeding.255859/ post #5 and #7 he gives a good long advice on his tactic to breeding them. Thought I'd link you to it, good luck in breeding!

 

[scytherhuang]

reed

I was reading around forum-land and found this thread, In this post from @Poec54 http://arachnoboards.com/threads/p-regalis-breeding.255859/ post #5 and #7 he gives a good long advice on his tactic to breeding them. Thought I'd link you to it, good luck in breeding!

I've read this thread before. But still thanks for the advice!

 

[Poec54]

If you leave a male in a female without him drumming and initiating courtship, you're taking a big gamble. I've had 3 Poec males (3 species) killed and eaten as soon as they were introduced into the female's cage. Without them announcing their presence and reason for their visit, they may be on the menu.

Your male wants to leave, trust his judgement. Get him out of there. You can't make a pair of spiders do anything. My adult females of all species usually have their annual molt in the spring, triggered by rain, warmer temps, and longer days. How big is your female? Is she a sister of the male? If she was giving off pheromones, that would stimulate the male, as would walking on her silk. If that hasn't excited him, he has no reason to be in that cage.

 

[EulersK]

If you leave a male in a female without him drumming and initiating courtship, you're taking a big gamble. I've had 3 Poec males (3 species) killed and eaten as soon as they were introduced into the female's cage. Without them announcing their presence and reason for their visit, they may be on the menu.

Your male wants to leave, trust his judgement. Get him out of there.

Since this thread was brought up, I'd like your opinion on the matter. I've spoken to a few breeders that swear by neutral territory - that is, allow them to breed on the wall or some other space that isn't the female's enclosure. It's been explained to me this way: open up the female's enclosure and put it up against the wall so she has the ability to crawl out. Put the male on the wall and let him do the rest. The reasoning here is that by introducing the male into her cage, you're putting him in her territory. In a neutral spot, the female has the option to simply not come out. Your experience on this?

 

[Poec54]

Since this thread was brought up, I'd like your opinion on the matter. I've spoken to a few breeders that swear by neutral territory - that is, allow them to breed on the wall or some other space that isn't the female's enclosure. It's been explained to me this way: open up the female's enclosure and put it up against the wall so she has the ability to crawl out. Put the male on the wall and let him do the rest. The reasoning here is that by introducing the male into her cage, you're putting him in her territory. In a neutral spot, the female has the option to simply not come out. Your experience on this?

I disagree with the logic. Not saying it doesn't work in some instances for some breeders, but I don't think that's the norm in the wild. Females live in the safe confines of their retreats. Their retreat is their life. Silk contains their pheromones that draw males. If she's wandering around sightseeing, it's going to be a lot harder for a male to zero in on exactly where she is. As it is, most adult males are higher-risk targets for predators, which is why they're typically high strung and built lean. To have both male and female out in the open, in a 'neutral' place poses a risk for them, especially with both totally focused on each other, and not what predator has spotted them. What good does it do for them to pair in the open, and both be suddenly snatched and eaten? I don't see most females leaving their safe haven for a male, who isn't necessarily trustworthy; he is an intruder after all. She may come to the entrance of her retreat or just outside it, but if need be she can be back inside in the blink of an eye. There's security in that, plus she's going to want everything in her favor, not the male's. She's the one that's carrying on the species, year after year. A far bigger contribution than any single male. She may produce an annual sac for 5 or 10 years, even more for the long-lived desert species. Males come and go. She gets her way.

Poecs have the longest and most involved courtship of any species I've paired up, chasing each other around while they flirt. But they're also a genus that relies on their effective cryptic markings and colors, along with having good eyesight by tarantula standards. They're less likely to be seen by predators, and more likely to escape from them if they do approach.

 

[EulersK]

I disagree with the logic. Not saying it doesn't work in some instances for some breeders, but I don't think that's the norm in the wild. Females live in the safe confines of their retreats. Their retreat is their life. Silk contains their pheromones that draw males. If she's wandering around sightseeing, it's going to be a lot harder for a male to zero in on exactly where she is. As it is, most adult males are higher-risk targets for predators, which is why they're typically high strung and built lean. To have both male and female out in the open, in a 'neutral' place poses a risk for them, especially with both totally focused on each other, and not what predator has spotted them. What good does it do for them to pair in the open, and both be suddenly snatched and eaten? I don't see most females leaving their safe haven for a male, who isn't necessarily trustworthy; he is an intruder after all. She may come to the entrance of her retreat or just outside it, but if need be she can be back inside in the blink of an eye. There's security in that, plus she's going to want everything in her favor, not the male's. She's the one that's carrying on the species, year after year. A far bigger contribution than any single male. She may produce an annual sac for 5 or 10 years, even more for the long-lived desert species. Males come and go. She gets her way.

Poecs have the longest and most involved courtship of any species I've paired up, chasing each other around while they flirt. But they're also a genus that relies on their effective cryptic markings and colors, along with having good eyesight by tarantula standards. They're less likely to be seen by predators, and more likely to escape from them if they do approach.

Thank you very much for the info. I've got a P. striata pair that's ready to go as soon as the male molts, so this information is very helpful. You better believe I'll be reaching out when my male is ready! As always, thanks for taking the time.

 

[EDED]

Op, I think your female is too far out from her last molt.
Maybe that's why the male didn't even try.

 

[scytherhuang]

If you leave a male in a female without him drumming and initiating courtship, you're taking a big gamble. I've had 3 Poec males (3 species) killed and eaten as soon as they were introduced into the female's cage. Without them announcing their presence and reason for their visit, they may be on the menu.

Your male wants to leave, trust his judgement. Get him out of there. You can't make a pair of spiders do anything. My adult females of all species usually have their annual molt in the spring, triggered by rain, warmer temps, and longer days. How big is your female? Is she a sister of the male? If she was giving off pheromones, that would stimulate the male, as would walking on her silk. If that hasn't excited him, he has no reason to be in that cage.

She's about 15 cm. I'm pretty sure they're not from the same sac.
I didn't left the male in the female's cage.
Since male show no interest in mating(he didn't do drumming at all),I just let him leave the female's cage.

Just wonder should I try again another day or just wait until female molt again?
Also,thanks for the advice.

 

[Poec54]

Op, I think your female is too far out from her last molt.
Maybe that's why the male didn't even try.

That's what I'm suspecting. She may be molting before long, and isn't in the mood, nor giving off any pheromones. There's probably nothing that would indicate to the male that there's a receptive female nearby.

I'd feed her heavy and keep her warm to trigger a molt. Then a couple weeks after molting fatten her up again for a month and try pairing them up. Your male's good for a while.

My rule of thumb is that the female should be 2 years older than the male. The slower you grow yours, the less the age difference comes into play. Chad Campbell says he grows his very slow, and his females are mature by the time his male are, but this isn't how most people grow theirs. More often males mature and sometimes die of old age, by the time their sisters mature.

 

[Jones0911]

I disagree with the logic. Not saying it doesn't work in some instances for some breeders, but I don't think that's the norm in the wild. Females live in the safe confines of their retreats. Their retreat is their life. Silk contains their pheromones that draw males. If she's wandering around sightseeing, it's going to be a lot harder for a male to zero in on exactly where she is. As it is, most adult males are higher-risk targets for predators, which is why they're typically high strung and built lean. To have both male and female out in the open, in a 'neutral' place poses a risk for them, especially with both totally focused on each other, and not what predator has spotted them. What good does it do for them to pair in the open, and both be suddenly snatched and eaten? I don't see most females leaving their safe haven for a male, who isn't necessarily trustworthy; he is an intruder after all. She may come to the entrance of her retreat or just outside it, but if need be she can be back inside in the blink of an eye. There's security in that, plus she's going to want everything in her favor, not the male's. She's the one that's carrying on the species, year after year. A far bigger contribution than any single male. She may produce an annual sac for 5 or 10 years, even more for the long-lived desert species. Males come and go. She gets her way.

Poecs have the longest and most involved courtship of any species I've paired up, chasing each other around while they flirt. But they're also a genus that relies on their effective cryptic markings and colors, along with having good eyesight by tarantula standards. They're less likely to be seen by predators, and more likely to escape from them if they do approach.

All this info makes me wanna buy Pokies even more lol

 

[z32upgrader]

Yes, I understand this thread is over a year old, but still relevant to what I'm experiencing.
I'm trying to pair P. regalis and it's not going very well. My big female molted 7 weeks ago and I got a fresh male in from Colorado. He's fairly small, a good inch or two smaller than her. The first time I tried to pair them, she was very receptive, drumming back and everything. When they first touched, he rushed at her in a way that seemed to put her off. She immediately turned and walked back into her hide. The same thing happened the second time they met. He aggressively charges at her, she bats him away and retreats back into her cage and hide. Now her behavior has changed a bit at successive attempts. He'll be drumming away when I get home from work, so I very carefully open her cage so as not to disturb her and slide the open cages next to each other. She'll feel him drumming and wander out and into his cage drumming back. She'll take just a few steps into his cage then hold perfectly still for a very long time. He'll be drumming his heart out just a few inches away and she's a statue. I don't know how to interpret this. Is she still interested, or is she hunting him now? Should I just let them be for hours and hope they eventually get to the business at hand or am I right to break up the date and try again later?

 

[Blue Jaye]

You might want to try a neutral enclosure. I've had successes with putting the male into the females enclosure overnight night if he's already drumming and she's returning the drumming but sometimes it takes hours for them to actually hook up. Sometimes females will feel uncomfortable once they step into a males enclosure because males can be territorial. But if I use a neutral enclosure the deed tends to get done a bit quicker. The male is uncomfortable he might be in the females hide. Especially if it's been her enclosure for a long while. The whole thing smells like her. And vise versa. I've had success doing both. And overnight stay with a very well fed female that is quite receptive usually works out well. I remove the male the next day. But if you're reluctant to do so try a neutral enclosure. Just set it up with some sub and a couple of cork slabs with plenty of room for them to move around.

 

[z32upgrader]

You might want to try a neutral enclosure. I've had successes with putting the male into the females enclosure overnight night if he's already drumming and she's returning the drumming but sometimes it takes hours for them to actually hook up. Sometimes females will feel uncomfortable once they step into a male's enclosure because males can be territorial. But if I use a neutral enclosure the deed tends to get done a bit quicker. The male is uncomfortable he might be in the females hide. Especially if it's been her enclosure for a long while. The whole thing smells like her. And vise versa. I've had success doing both. And overnight stay with a very well fed female that is quite receptive usually works out well. I remove the male the next day. But if you're reluctant to do so try a neutral enclosure. Just set it up with some sub and a couple of cork slabs with plenty of room for them to move around.

Ok, They're both in a neutral enclosure, a ten-gallon aquarium on its side with a large cork slab inside neither of them have ever touched before; no lid on the tank. Should she choose to pursue him, he has a pretty good chance of getting away cleanly. I don't care if they use my entire spare room tonight, there's few hiding places and no way out with a towel under the door, and a/c vent screened.
He's drumming just three inches from her on the cork bark and she's once again a statue. I brush his front legs with a leg from her most recent molt to get him drumming again when he quits.
Should I just let them be and see what's what in the morning?
*Edit*
Thirty minutes later and I guess she went after him.
Heard a scuffle and rushed in there to see her still on the cork looking like she just missed grabbing prey and him on the floor looking like he just leaped clear of her. Date over for tonight.

 

[Blue Jaye]

Ok, They're both in a neutral enclosure, a ten-gallon aquarium on its side with a large cork slab inside neither of them have ever touched before; no lid on the tank. Should she choose to pursue him, he has a pretty good chance of getting away cleanly. I don't care if they use my entire spare room tonight, there's few hiding places and no way out with a towel under the door, and a/c vent screened.
He's drumming just three inches from her on the cork bark and she's once again a statue. I brush his front legs with a leg from her most recent molt to get him drumming again when he quits.
Should I just let them be and see what's what in the morning?
*Edit*
Thirty minutes later and I guess she went after him.
Heard a scuffle and rushed in there to see her still on the cork looking like she just missed grabbing prey and him on the floor looking like he just leaped clear of her. Date over for tonight.

I just re read your post and have a few questions. How big is she's? How long has he been mature?. Has he made a sperm web? When I pair I usually wait a good two to three months after the female molts if she's a full grown adult. I also feed the female extremely heavy. If the female isn't fully grown it could be part of the problem. Also if it's a fresh mm. You might be experiencing him just not courting properly yet lol. I've experienced this. Where there either two fresh and haven't made a sperm web yet so they just drum and run from the female or they are a bit awkwardly aggressive with advancing on her. Either way it can put the female off and change her mood. If he's quite fresh you have time to wait. Seperate them give it a couple weeks feed her heavy and fed him well also. Then try again. When things don't go right the first couple times this usually helps and pairing should go easier.

 

[z32upgrader]

I just re read your post and have a few questions. How big is she's? How long has he been mature?. Has he made a sperm web? When I pair I usually wait a good two to three months after the female molts if she's a full grown adult. I also feed the female extremely heavy. If the female isn't fully grown it could be part of the problem. Also if it's a fresh mm. You might be experiencing him just not courting properly yet lol. I've experienced this. Where there either two fresh and haven't made a sperm web yet so they just drum and run from the female or they are a bit awkwardly aggressive with advancing on her. Either way it can put the female off and change her mood. If he's quite fresh you have time to wait. Seperate them give it a couple weeks feed her heavy and fed him well also. Then try again. When things don't go right the first couple times this usually helps and pairing should go easier.

Ok, I'll give both a break for a while. He matured 15 July, got him in the mail August 16th and he's made three sperm webs in his enclosure since then.
She's not enormous, but almost certainly sexually mature. She's a solid 6.25-6.5".
I just don't know what happened. She was so interested, drumming back and giving all the right signs that she's receptive to breeding, then it all just stopped.
*Edit*
I just reviewed the footage I shot of their attempts frame by frame, and it's possible he got her on the first try. It was so quick, I dismissed it as a failure.
See for yourself:

Maybe she is gravid and is rejecting him now because there's nothing more for him to do?

 

[MobBurrow]

He'll be drumming his heart out just a few inches away and she's a statue. I don't know how to interpret this. Is she still interested, or is she hunting him now? Should I just let them be for hours and hope they eventually get to the business at hand or am I right to break up the date and try again later?

As long as she's not chasing him around or showing signs of hostility, with Poec we got to be a bit patient. I've never seen an immediate lock-up in the way of other spp. On the other hand, I know Blue has been able to pair her pokies upon introduction. And I've spoke with her a little on interpretation mentioned; still IMO some testing / feeling out the female on his part. We can break it down and analyze their interactions all day but considering the depth of this language barrier- if he doesn't seem to be in immediate danger, might just let them do their thing. Although I've paired at least half the Poec spp, have only manage to catch a few in the act. One overnight should be sufficient but just to give you an idea, I'll often cohab for a # of days with no issue. Even witnessed some "cuddling" with at least a few of the genus.

I don't want to be responsible for your male but you have the right idea on "interpretation". Feel them out. You can also attach something to the end of a bendy straw (I do this with all spp) e.g. Q tip. Rub that on some webbage, then gently stroke (just enough to make slight contact with hairs) the males patella, peds etc. Then back to female. Back and forth a few times- enough to test their demeanor and get them interested. But not too much to piss them off. If the female shifts her way toward it and gently grabs at it, you've got her attention. If she lunges at it, maybe wait a day or two. Note that on first contact with device, they may jump at it out of habit anyway. Best though, to make sure it doesn't get caught up in their claws.

IMO, time lines look good. You can give it a break, as many breaks as you think it will take. But you may find yourself doing this for some time, meanwhile- females expiring> male. The viability of the male may be somewhat of a concern, and I don't really KNOW, but am thinking the female is the schedule you should be concerned with. Don't be too hasty. But if you can't manage to get a Poec to pair on demand, the risk might be waiting out the female. At least is the way I see it. Post/pre - feed her, keep an eye out, take a little break as you had mentioned. Wouldn't wait too long though.

 

[Blue Jaye]

I don't think there was insertion. I think the problem here is positioning. They are both on the wall of the enclosure and both large and heavy so slipping and falling will definitely turn the female off. While they can pair on the wall it's a bit tricky for them. Both times she fell and that will definitely make her go away or even get in a better spot to try again. He's the one that has to be brave enough to go to her when she's somewhere where she has better footing. Give them a break for a week. And try again.

I think you could do an overnight stay or even a few days as Mobburrow said. I also agree with everything he said in his post. Poecs aren't always male eaters and cohab with much success. It's rare that they get it right the first try. I've had it happen but most of the time it takes awhile. And lots of patience on our part. I have a tarantula page on Facebook Blue Jaye's Tarantulas. There's a good video of P.mets pairing. As for your boy he's doing his job right. He's got to get in there with a bit of gusto and hold the female up and back in case she desires to turn the tables on him.

 

[z32upgrader]

Well, the break seemed to have worked. I guess absence does make the heart grow fonder. I put him in there and she's drumming like crazy again. He's being pretty skittish so far. I'll leave them overnight and see what's what in the morning. Fingers crossed!

 

[z32upgrader]

Good news and bad news. I watched them go round and round her enclosure, him backing away as she approached until about 2 am then I went to bed. Woke up around 9 and found she hadn't killed him in the seven hours or so they were left unsupervised. I watched for a while as they sat still then went into the kitchen to get myself breakfast and sat down to watch some more. The door to her enclosure was still closed as I watched. They were both on her log hide, on opposite sides of it. She around the back and he on the front. He began his little vibrate/drum routine and walked around towards her. She lunged at him grabbing him up and driving her fangs through his carapace before I had a chance to react. I quickly set my bowl down, flung open the door, but couldn't do much of anything to stop her. There wasn't enough space to get my tongs in the enclosure and around the back side of the cork bark where she was holding on to him. In desperation, I just hit the side of the enclosure with my hand and she dropped him and ran back inside her hide with his right pedipalp she managed to pull off.
A fang entered his carapace just behind his eye cluster and was leaking hemolymph. Only a couple legs worked and he was curling and dragging the rest as he tried to walk. I feel so bad for him. I'm sure she gave him a full dose of venom, and his wounds are almost certainly mortal. He's in the fridge now, and will go in the freezer soon. I feel horrible because I failed to protect him and take him out sooner. I really hope they did the deed.