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P Muticus and others for semi beginner?

Discussion in 'Tarantula Chat' started by Lettuce, Dec 7, 2017.

  1. Lettuce

    Lettuce Arachnopeon

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    Hey there, I’m working a deal currently and would like some advice...

    The guy who I’m speaking with will toss in a P Regalis 1.5” and P Muticus 3”.... Currently I just have a GBB, A Geniculata, and B Albopilosum... Thoughts on if it’s even a good idea to get the additional two T’s or should I just forget it?

    Thanks!
     
  2. miss moxie

    miss moxie Arachnoprince Active Member

    I'd forget it. The tarantulas you've listed in no way prepare you for the speed of Poecilotheria, or the defensiveness and speed of P. muticus.

    Poecilotheria literally teleport. Blink, and they're gone. If you think your GBB is fast? Poecilotheria are like superman-- faster than a speeding bullet. At that size they're especially skittish, my 4 P. regalis are about that size and are good for doing laps around the enclosure, traveling up to the lid, going back down, darting in 4 different directions before finally going into their hides.

    Tell him you have no experience with OWs and perhaps he'll throw in some NWs instead.
     
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  3. Nightshady

    Nightshady Arachnosquire Active Member

    I’m gonna predict that most people here say no, but honestly IMO that’s a question you need to be asking yourself, not others.

    Those are fast, defensive and potentially aggressive T’s with a bite so nasty it could likely land you in the hospital.

    Do you have kids or pets you would need to think about?

    Are you extremely confident you could safely rehouse and care for such T’s? My guess is if you’re asking here, the answer is probably no.

    People might disagree with me, but I think the time when someone is ready for an OW T varies greatly by the individual. IMO, you should realize yourself when you’re ready.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  4. Arachnophoric

    Arachnophoric Arachnosquire Active Member

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    P. muticus are really simple seeing that they're fossorial. The only time you'd really have issue is rehousing time, in which you'll be dealing with a big, VERY agitated, VERY potent spider. You always could house it in an enclosure suitable for an adult with deep substrate (8" or more is what I keep mine my 5" female and 3.5" male in) and room for a spider that could reach a size of 7-8 inches. They grow at a glacial pace though, so you could lose your juvenile in that sea of substrate, and some people have issues with their P. muticus sealing themselves under and never resurfacing for food/water and dying as a result. I've never had this issue personally, but it does happen.

    Poecilotheria are big, lightning fast arboreals that have one heck of a bite - you'll be in the hospital if things go sour, even with a small one like the one you've been offered. But I think they get a bit more flack for being defensive than they deserve; my two haven't so much as given me a threat pose, not even my 5"+ male regalis when I rehoused him. They're shy and skittish, much preferring to hide than fight. An OBT these are not. They grow fast, and you'll be rehousing your sling by summer depending what you house them in. Are you ready to have a 3"+ spider with teleportation abilities and venom that can make a grown man wail like a child bolt up your arm and onto your face before you can say "uh oh"? Not saying it WILL happen, but it could.

    Personally, I think you should pass. At least on the regalis. If you're dead set on getting an OW, the P. muticus has such slow growth rates that it most likely wouldn't outgrow your experience, and will likely be in it's burrow 24/7. Ultimately though, I find myself agreeing with Nightshady. I may not recommend it, but if you're truly feeling like you're ready despite your other Ts not even holding a candle to these two in speed, venom potency, and/or defensiveness, they are both great species I'd recommend keeping (although generally to the more experienced keeper).
     
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  5. Chris LXXIX

    Chris LXXIX Arachnoemperor Active Member

    Buy a Goddess* only if that's a 100% Goddess*

    Maybe this theme can help you understand well my words and what I mean. If not, sorry... you shouldn't have one v



    * 0.1 Pelinobius muticus PBUH (Peace Be Upon Her)
     
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  6. Chris LXXIX

    Chris LXXIX Arachnoemperor Active Member

    Because those people take, always, literally the 'bone dry' keeping part. They fail to realize that, since a Goddess* require a lot of substrate inches for live, 'you' need to create 'layers'... where the surface is 'bone dry', yes, but the 'center/bottom' of the burrow needs to be always slightly moist (especially in Winter time, when furnaces are always on).

    For doing this, 'you' need to use a XXL enclosure, obviously (more bigger than the other in general used for pet holes) and, while preparing the set up, add in the substrate vermiculite but fine grain only (helps to mantain the moisture level in the long run).

    After, it's only a matter of using 'your' eyes and pour room temperature water, with a syringe, in that layer/portion of substrate.

    * 0.1 Pelinobius muticus PBUH (Peace Be Upon Her)
     
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  7. ZHESSWA

    ZHESSWA Arachnopeon

    It is totally a personal decision that you yourself have to evaluate. If you truly believe you can handle and are confident in yourself and your abilities in regards to tarantulas, then I don't see why not. I was out of the hobby for a good 3-4 years and when I resumed, my first 3 tarantulas were an OBT, P. Irminia, and H. Maculata. I was too impatient to steadily build my collection up through the traditional way by starting with the NWs and I was confident that I not only knew what I was doing, but that I could also contain the speed demons! Totally a personal call that you have to be honest with yourself with though either you're ready or you're not. If you do end up getting them, my advice would be to always house them in a bigger enclosure than needed so that you reduce the amount of times they need rehousing!
     
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  8. miss moxie

    miss moxie Arachnoprince Active Member

    1. No offense, but impatience isn't a good reason to rush headlong into anything, let alone something where an animal's life is at stake.
    2. I'm assuming you had experience with fast, angry OWs before you got out of the hobby so though you were out of practice you'd at least worked with them once upon a time.
    3. Nothing beats experience. Thinking to yourself 'I can do that' does not mean you can do that. People overestimate their abilities CONSTANTLY. Experience builds calm nerves in crappy situations, the know how to deal with crappy situations instead of a knee jerk reaction. For example, letting the OW run it out and stop rather than trying to slam the door shut and stop them from getting out, because slamming the door shut is a good way to crush a limb or worse.

    If an OW overwhelms someone because they can't really handle it, it doesn't just become a danger to the tarantula and the keeper-- it becomes a danger to everyone and every other living pet in the house-- or worse, building if you share walls with other residents. They can put serious hurt on cats, dogs, young children, and the elderly. Do you know how bad a "Giant Poisonous spider bites child, puts them in the emergency room" story is for our hobby? Yes, I know-- venom, not poison. But that's just an example of how little most people know about this hobby. It -can- happen, and every bad story puts this hobby at risk. If you love this hobby, you should only advise things that will help our hobby, not in anyway endanger it.

    And in the end, these tarantulas are living, breathing things. When you bring them into your home it is with the understanding that they cannot care for themselves and -you- commit to caring for them to the absolute best of your ability. I don't think it's a stretch to say that "the best of your ability" would involve gaining as much experience as you can before taking on the challenge of such advanced tarantulas.

    OP, you should pass. You should pass and you shouldn't get any OW until you've worked with a genus like Psalmopoeus. When you are prepared for an OW, the best starter genera are Augacephalus and Ceratogyrus. Monocentropus balfouri aren't a bad beginner OW terrestrial either.
     
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  9. Lettuce

    Lettuce Arachnopeon

    Wow, I couldn’t agree more. I would much rather get a lot of experience and be well prepared before and OW, because it’s better for me, my family and the spider... Thank you very much!
     
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  10. Lettuce

    Lettuce Arachnopeon

    I think if I were to be a little less jumpy when my GBB runs around the enclosure then I would consider it more. But at this point I don’t think I should get something I would necessarily be afraid of... Thank you!
     
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  11. Lettuce

    Lettuce Arachnopeon

    OW’s definitely have some type of allure to them that makes them seem maybe “cooler” for some reason... But in reality, I would agree and say it’s not worth it for the risk of getting bit by either one and endangering the spiders life.. I think I’ll hold off for now... Thank you!
     
  12. Lettuce

    Lettuce Arachnopeon

    With hearing what everybody had to say, I don’t think it’s the best of ideas (I didn’t think so either but I wanted to hear a second opinion just to be sure)... If one of them got out or got angry and bit someone, that would not be a pleasant experience. I think for doing what’s better for me and the spider, I’ll just have to pass on the offer... Thank you for your input!
     
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  13. miss moxie

    miss moxie Arachnoprince Active Member

    We can always appreciate someone who puts the wellbeing of these spiders, and the hobby first! You've got a very responsible attitude and I'm sure that when you feel you're ready, you will do very well with them.
     
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  14. Walker253

    Walker253 Arachnobaron Active Member

    I'm taking the opposite side of the discussion. Personally, while a P regalis is fast and the bite can pack a punch, they are hardly the devil. I have about 2 dozen Pokies ranging from 2" to 8". I have yet to have on run laps around the container. I have had a few run around for a second or maybe two looking for cover. Do I pop the top when they are moving, no. I WAIT THEM OUT.

    OP, you are an adult, do you lack common sense? If the answer is no, then you will in almost all certainty be fine. There is no magic time to being ready for an old world T. Take your time, have a game plan when you do anything. If it doesn't feel right, wait. Come back later and accomplish your task.

    Some peoples timeline to own OW's is like 4-5 years they way they talk about the demons known to live in Africa and Asia. My first P regalis was 2 months in. I was scared to death by what I read. She never gave me a bit of problem. Honestly, I've done several Pokie rehousings. Many are far easier than the Acanthoscurria chacoana I did last night. She wasn't bad, just attacked the tongs I was using to move her. On those Pokie rehousings I have a game plan. I plan for anything that can go wrong before I start. Rehousings are when you are most likely to have an issue. The rest of the time, give them a moment to hide and do what you need to do. It's not hard if you are patient. Take the P regalis and enjoy the beauty and mystique. Don't get bit.

    The P muticus is cool, but easy to deal with. Again, the bite packs a puch, but don't poke and prod. They are super shy. Give them sufficient substrate and you'll never see it. Frankly, they're kinda boring. I guess they are kind of a status symbol among baboon keepers. Just make sure they don't dehydrate. Every couple of months I soak the substate in the opposite corner to their hole.

    I would never give this advice to a kid just starting out, but if you have an aptitude to keeping animals posing a danger and common sense at an adult level, you'll be fine.
     
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  15. miss moxie

    miss moxie Arachnoprince Active Member


    I can't see where anyone here inferred Poecilotheria were the devil, for one thing. I think they're one of the more "gentle" OWs, personally. And you must have gotten lucky, because I've had several do laps, three different species: P. regalis, P. fasciata, and P. metallica. I just got my P. subfusca, I'll let you know if I run into any nascar drivers in the bunch.

    However, I did see where OP mentioned that the speed of their GBB makes them jumpy, and that they don't want to get something they're afraid of. Clearly they aren't ready and they know it.
     
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  16. Nonnack

    Nonnack Arachnosquire Active Member

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    It is always better to have some experience with fast spiders before getting OW one. Yours aren't fast. Imo good indicator when you are ready for OW T is, when spider does something you didn't expect, bite, bolts out of enclosure, etc and you remain calm, don't get scared, flinch or something.
     
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  17. Walker253

    Walker253 Arachnobaron Active Member

    Yeah I think calling the P regalis the devil was inferred. Of all my pokies (P regalis, P striata. P smithi, P metallica, P rufilata, P tigrinawesseli, P bara, and P ornata) to ever give me any trouble were my P metallica. They would always move for the opening when I popped the top. Didn't run, just moved toward it. I changed the enclosures to give them more cover, problem solved. To say, I "must have gotten lucky" is laughable. I currently have 23 Pokies. I think those numbers point toward a trend. That point might be valid if I had a few.

    No matter when a person gets into old worlds, there will be a learning curve. The first time you deal with any tarantula, you will get nervous. The first few times you deal with an old world, your heart will likely feel like it's going to explode from your chest. That will happen even if you wait 5 years to get into OW's. Plan for things to go wrong (catch cups), contain the environment (small room) and you SHOULD be fine. This isn't rocket science.
     
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  18. Walker253

    Walker253 Arachnobaron Active Member

    Here's a novel idea. When someone is about to do something that they think tests their ability, pm a member with the experience to make sure everything is in order. I emailed @Chris LXXIX several times when initially dealing with my first P muticus and P murinus. I was very nervous. He gave me good advice and things went smoothly. Maybe I was lucky...
     
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  19. Chris LXXIX

    Chris LXXIX Arachnoemperor Active Member

    You wasn't lucky, but a very good keeper, my man :)
     
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  20. miss moxie

    miss moxie Arachnoprince Active Member

    Saying that a species is fast and skittish in no way says they're the devil. I'm not sure why you took it that way, but it certainly wasn't my point because that's not close to what I believe at all. I've worked with 17 pokies, and an 18th on the way. Several of them have done laps. The only species who hasn't done laps is my 7.5" P. striata female, and perhaps it's because she's in a square enclosure rather than a round one. No, instead of doing laps she bolted out of her enclosure and onto my bookcase when I was unpacking her for the first time. Well, and the P. subfusca haven't done laps, but it's only been a day.

    I'm just not sure why you're advising someone who admitted their GBB makes them jumpy, and who says they're afraid of OWs, to get an OW. Doesn't sound like solid advice to me. There's a difference between being afraid of being bitten, and jumping whenever a fast tarantula makes a sudden movement.

    Yes, everyone will be nervous with their first OW, 2 months in or 2 years in or 2 decades in-- anyone who knows well what these creatures are capable of.

    I never said waiting would make someone less nervous, I said experience brings the know-how to deal with situations like a large female pokie on your bookcase, and the calm-nerves one needs to make these situations go smoothly rather than turning it into an even bigger problem.