P.Irminia sexing....very confused...purchased as female. but now appears to be male?!

[Morgan1304]

Okay...My T has always been purchased as female as juv. About 8cm leg span ...she had the female palps. As shown in pictures. Now after her recent (2days ago) molt...she/he has doubled in size almost. And well didn't look like a female. The coloration on the abdomen disappeared. I honestly can't confirm what it is now...im very confused. I've never heard of tarantulas changing sex.. I thought it was a myth. Now I'm sceptical. She is now about 10-11cm..i know...a massive jump from 8cm, hair colour went from black to greyish. i included a photo when i first got here. she clearly looks to be female there. thats the one in the blue background

As shown in the photos , we can see female palps, but now mine has male palps, i didn't get a photo of the change ill try again tomorrow

 

[KezyGLA]

If the last photo is of it now. It is a mature male.

They are sexually dimorphic upon maturity.


You were sold a male as a female. I would contact the seller.

 

[Morgan1304]

If the last photo is of it now. It is a mature male.

They are sexually dimorphic upon maturity

thanks alot dude, my head was in a pickle all day

 

[viper69]

Okay...My T has always been purchased as female as juv. About 8cm leg span ...she had the female palps. As shown in pictures. Now after her recent (2days ago) molt...she/he has doubled in size almost. And well didn't look like a female. The coloration on the abdomen disappeared. I honestly can't confirm what it is now...im very confused. I've never heard of tarantulas changing sex.. I thought it was a myth. Now I'm sceptical. She is now about 10-11cm..i know...a massive jump from 8cm, hair colour went from black to greyish. i included a photo when i first got here. she clearly looks to be female there. thats the one in the blue background

P. irminia are one of the few Ts that are sexually morphic. Males will be slender and have a gray tone to them at times. Only the females are jet black. Yours looks male.

 

[Morgan1304]

As an update, my seller happily took him back, in return he gave me 2 huntsmen slings and a golden orb weaver sling until he goes back to Germany for more T's, he says he'll make sure he gets me a female. great guy tbh, wasn't his fault really, the ones in Germany sex them. all in all im satisfied, hopefully, my male goes on to mate.

 

[KezyGLA]

Glad he is sorting it out for you. The way a seller should.


Just so you know is loads of reputable suppliers in UK that will post to NI. I even know one with a fantastic selection in NI. If you are interested I could send you the details.

 

[Morgan1304]

Glad he is sorting it out for you. The way a seller should.


Just so you know is loads of reputable suppliers in UK that will post to NI. I even know one with a fantastic selection in NI. If you are interested I could send you the details.

Go for it, i am interested! =D

 

[cold blood]

As shown in the photos , we can see female palps

This is what the palps look like on all ts, male or female, the change in the palps is ONLY after a male matures.

Keep in mind that irminia is a popular and regularly bred spider...easily available and at low prices...just get another from a seller that knows how to sex tarantulas.

Message kezy, he can point you n the right direction for sure.

 

[Arachnophobphile]

I love my P. irminia at now 4 inches dls. I pretty much figured mine is a male due to all the gray.

Still love'em and love watching him hunt a red runner that refused to fall down in the spider hole then made it's way around to a hiding place, so it thought. This was yesterday

Right after the photo I tried to get a video of him darting to get the roach and go back in it's web. Couldn't hit record fast enough as it was over in 2 seconds

 

[The Grym Reaper]

I love my P. irminia at now 4 inches dls. I pretty much figured mine is a male due to all the gray.

Males and females of P. irminia are practically identical in appearance prior to maturity, if it's not already a mature male (in which case it'll basically look like a P. cambridgei made out of pipe cleaners) then it needs to be vent/moult sexed.

 

[Arachnophobphile]

Males and females of P. irminia are practically identical in appearance prior to maturity, if it's not already a mature male (in which case it'll basically look like a P. cambridgei made out of pipe cleaners) then it needs to be vent/moult sexed.

No it's not a mature male. Wasn't aware they are identical in appearance until they mature, good to know.

It's no biggy whether it's male or female to me. I did find a photo of a mature male and I see what you mean about the pipe cleaners for legs.

 

[The Grym Reaper]

Wasn't aware they are identical in appearance until they mature, good to know.

Yeah, not a lot of people are aware of that tbf. With the vast majority of species that exhibit sexual dimorphism it's only apparent on maturity, the exceptions in which it's apparent at earlier stages (e.g. P. ornata/L. nigerrimum) are very few and far between.

 

[Ambra1980]

P. irminia are one of the few Ts that are sexually morphic. Males will be slender and have a gray tone to them at times. Only the females are jet black. Yours looks male.

This is nice to know I have a p.irminia it's still kinda young so I'm excited to find out wht it is...I'm having bad luck so far n my mexican fireleg seems to be mm my mexican red leg also mm idk I'm wanting females guess cause they live longer....

 

[cold blood]

P. irminia are one of the few Ts that are sexually morphic. Males will be slender and have a gray tone to them at times. Only the females are jet black. Yours looks male.

Well, this is a misleading statement....prior to maturity, a male will look exactly like a female dorsally...dimorphism only occurs once the male has matured.

 

[viper69]

Well, this is a misleading statement....prior to maturity, a male will look exactly like a female dorsally...dimorphism only occurs once the male has matured.

Still sexually dimorphic- I didn’t qualify my statement, nor should one assume

This is nice to know I have a p.irminia it's still kinda young so I'm excited to find out wht it is...I'm having bad luck so far n my mexican fireleg seems to be mm my mexican red leg also mm idk I'm wanting females guess cause they live longer....

mm help me and others increase collection size more so than females in many cases.

besides mm’s won’t live too long, means you’ll have space for a new t

 

[cold blood]

Still sexually dimorphic- I didn’t qualify my statement

Which is why i said it was misleading and not just wrong...but the statement absolutely does need to be quantified, as a male t lives generally 9 molts, leading to 10 "size versions" of the t...saying they are dimorphic is misleading because during these 10 growth periods, the t is only dimorphic for one of these (the final one), meaning its only dimorphic for roughly 10% of its life....meaning that for 90% of the male irminia's life, its not dimorphic.

 

[viper69]

Which is why i said it was misleading and not just wrong...but the statement absolutely does need to be quantified, as a male t lives generally 9 molts, leading to 10 "size versions" of the t...saying they are dimorphic is misleading because during these 10 growth periods, the t is only dimorphic for one of these (the final one), meaning its only dimorphic for roughly 10% of its life....meaning that for 90% of the male irminia's life, its not dimorphic.

I understand the %. However, what is not known is scientifically does sexually dimorphic mean 100%, or do scientists always think to themselves - how long of their life, ie no expectation of 100%.That's what I'm wondering.

 

[cold blood]

However, what is not known is scientifically does sexually dimorphic mean 100%,

Dimorphism does have a scientific definition....here it is:

"Sexual dimorphism is the condition where sexes of the same species exhibit different morphological characteristics, particularly characteristics not directly involved in reproduction. The condition occurs in most animals and some plants. Differences may include secondary sex characteristics, size, weight, color, markings, or behavioral or cognitive traits"

Since the only period where irminia is dimorphic is when the male matures, we can definitively say that for the vast majority of an irminia's life, they are not dimorphic....and that dimorphism only occurs within mature males of the species.

 

[viper69]

Dimorphism does have a scientific definition....here it is:

"Sexual dimorphism is the condition where sexes of the same species exhibit different morphological characteristics, particularly characteristics not directly involved in reproduction. The condition occurs in most animals and some plants. Differences may include secondary sex characteristics, size, weight, color, markings, or behavioral or cognitive traits"

Since the only period where irminia is dimorphic is when the male matures, we can definitively say that for the vast majority of an irminia's life, they are not dimorphic....and that dimorphism only occurs within mature males of the species.

Hah no— I didn’t mean is there a definition ; I wasn’t clear enough.

I meant if a scientist using cladistics read “species A is sexually dimorphic” would they automatically assume 100% of life cycle or would they think “what portion of the life cycle”
I need to ask a scientist who uses cladistics.