Non-lethal venomous snakes?

[lizardminion]

Are there any snakes that have venom but couldn't kill a human when they bite? I'm wondering if there is a snake like this that could also take down a live mouse. Say, is there a viper that won't kill a human with a bite?
Basically like a snake version of the goliath bird-eating T.

 

[Camden]

Are there any snakes that have venom but couldn't kill a human when they bite? I'm wondering if there is a snake like this that could also take down a live mouse. Say, is there a viper that won't kill a human with a bite?
Basically like a snake version of the goliath bird-eating T.

Please don't consider getting a venomous snake when you've never had any snake experience before. I don't know why it's relevant, but a snake thats not venomous can take down a live mouse easily.
Theres hognose snakes.. They're technically venomous, but they're rear fanged, which obviously means their fangs point backwards and they really have to chew to get their venom into you. and if they do it'll usually only irritate your skin unless you have some crazy reaction.
But even hognose aren't the best first snake, so i've heard. But nevertheless, keeping anything with venom when you have little to no hands-on reptile experience, is just a bad idea in my opinion.

 

[loxoscelesfear]

go with a garter snake Thamnophis. Garters possess a mild neurotoxic venom.

 

[Keister]

Please don't consider getting a venomous snake when you've never had any snake experience before. I don't know why it's relevant, but a snake thats not venomous can take down a live mouse easily.
Theres hognose snakes.. They're technically venomous, but they're rear fanged, which obviously means their fangs point backwards and they really have to chew to get their venom into you. and if they do it'll usually only irritate your skin unless you have some crazy reaction.
But even hognose aren't the best first snake, so i've heard. But nevertheless, keeping anything with venom when you have little to no hands-on reptile experience, is just a bad idea in my opinion.

I have to agree, if you have no reptile experiance starting off with a venomous snake is not the smartest thing ever. Although Hognoses are good, you can also get a mangrove snake, they too are also rear fanged, and aren't venomous enough to kill you.

 

[Tarac]

Maybe your state is different, but most states require permits for "venomous" snakes. I know for certain anything venomous and exotic requires a permit in Texas and would be shocked if it wasn't also true of natives considering, like my home state, there are a surplus of particularly nasty species found there meaning more news-worthy bites and therefor more regulations.

Snakes that won't kill you for sure are most of them. Even a very severe bite from a reputedly "deadly" snake bite generally takes an hour or more to kill you if it ultimately does, and it's slowly and painfully- no so such thing as a real "10 step" snake or whatever the tale was. The vast majority of rattlesnake bites don't result in death save a rare few that occur out in the wild with no access to medical intervention or to young or already ailing people, and that is really the case with most fatal snake bites. Extenuating circumstances. Either the bite was in a bad spot, such as near the face, on the torso or neck, and caused mechanical death due to swelling and subsequent asphyxiation or there was no access to any medical care at all to stop the progression of the reaction, i.e. unable to stop swelling, bleeding, etc. Most people who are bitten by Agkistrodon here in the states don't die. But they are extremely unhappy, to say the least.

There are a number of rattlesnake related deaths every decade but it's comparatively small in the overall number of venomous snake bites. Just not one of those things you press your luck with because there's no guarantee that you won't be 1/1000 that dies. Also know that many people are severely allergic to available antivenins, so you could be SOL regardless of the species that bites you.

As you can see by the responses there are a number of snakes considered "non-venomous" that actually are very mildly so- I think this may even be true about most snakes in fact but don't quote me because I can't remember where I read that. I recently found a Pine Woods Snake, Rhadinaea flavilata, in my small urban yard in a brush pile, they are apparently mildly venomous but are so tiny I can't imagine it could even break your skin (it didn't try to bite anyway). Helps to immobilize very small prey.

Hognose can be tricky because they eat toads in the native condition and do not necessarily readily switch to mice, if they ever do at all. They are awesome snakes though. We have a black form of the eastern species here in my city, they frequent a couple of my ponds because the water attracts tons of toads.

Buy one captive bred that is already feeding on frozen pinky mice and leave the nice wild ones outside. They are readily available at most herp-oriented pet stores. And if you can't think of snake that fits your needs then you clearly don't know enough about them to even begin considering something classified as venomous, to be frank. Don't take offense, but if you aren't sure you can handle a black racer without being bitten repeatedly then venomous should be the farthest thing from your mind. Best case scenario you are one of those people in the headlines that gets bitten by their monocled cobra and causes an avalanche of new regulations harming responsible owners all kinds of new hassle. Worst case let's not even consider... and it does happen:

http://www.pattayadailynews.com/en/2010/12/03/norwegian-man-presumed-killed-by-pet-cobra-snake/

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/06...ake-apparently-killed-by-bite-from-pet-snake/

 

[catfishrod69]

I second going with a Thamnophis species. I know someone who is hopefully going to have babies of two different species soon.

 

[pitbulllady]

MOST species of rear-fanged venomous snakes do not possess venom that is considered potentially lethal to humans, with some notable exceptions, of course, such as the Twig Snakes(Thelotornis sp.) and Boomslangs(Dispholidus typus) of Africa. Our N. American Hognoses(Platyrhinos sp.), our Water Snakes(Nerodia sp.) and our Garter and Ribbon Snakes(Thamnophis sp.) are all rear-fanged and mildly venomous. There's also the huge and impressive Mussuranas(Clelia clelia) and the False Water Cobra(Hydronastes gigas) if you want bigger snakes, and there are many Old World species, including the various Cat-Eyed Snakes(Telescopus sp.) and the Boigas. Many of the Old World species are NOT beginner snakes, and in fact, the only ones out of the whole bunch I'd recommend as beginner snakes are the Water and Garter Snakes and the Western Hogs.

Most vipers, contrary to popular belief, won't kill you. You'll probably just loose some body parts, maybe your kidney functions, maybe wind up on a ventilator for several days, probably need several transfusions...you know, fun weekend stuff. Copperhead bites almost never kill anyone, but trust me, it's no picnic...Been There, Done That. If you're wanting a "hot" snake just to say you have one, to show off with without the risk of dying, take the advice of the snake keepers here: DON'T GET ONE! This is especially true if you have not owned a snake before! NO n00bie should EVER start off with a real "hot" snake, one with medically-significant venom, period.

pitbulllady

 

[lizardminion]

Well no, not to show off, but for a unique snake when it comes to feeding, anyway. I'm just looking for a snake that kills it's prey- mainly a mouse- by injecting venom. I know about hognoses and garters, but I don't like their options when it comes to feeding. I'm not looking for any particularly "hot" species, but a species that is able (not as if it was going to) to take down a live mouse with venom, but not a human. And no, not that I'll actually feed a live mouse to it, just something different than the constrictor concept. Just for thought of it.

 

[Camden]

Well no, not to show off, but for a unique snake when it comes to feeding, anyway. I'm just looking for a snake that kills it's prey- mainly a mouse- by injecting venom. I know about hognoses and garters, but I don't like their options when it comes to feeding. I'm not looking for any particularly "hot" species, but a species that is able (not as if it was going to) to take down a live mouse with venom, but not a human. And no, not that I'll actually feed a live mouse to it, just something different than the constrictor concept. Just for thought of it.

if you want to see a venomous snake take down a mouse, youtube it. cause thats all that it seems you're interested in, even viperkeeper uses frozen thawed. I really wouldn't suggest getting anything venomous as regards to reptiles, not even a garter or hognose. cause they aren't even good starter snakes. get some experience first.

 

[pitbulllady]

Well no, not to show off, but for a unique snake when it comes to feeding, anyway. I'm just looking for a snake that kills it's prey- mainly a mouse- by injecting venom. I know about hognoses and garters, but I don't like their options when it comes to feeding. I'm not looking for any particularly "hot" species, but a species that is able (not as if it was going to) to take down a live mouse with venom, but not a human. And no, not that I'll actually feed a live mouse to it, just something different than the constrictor concept. Just for thought of it.

I do not recommend live feeding of rodents to snakes, period, except to those picky snakes who will not eat anything else. Even to a venomous snake, a rodent is potentially very dangerous. No snake has venom that can kill a mouse or rat or other rodent so fast that the rodent does not have time to attack and injure the snake, and rodents, even small mice, can do an awful lot of damage to a snake in close quarters in a very short amount of time. Why risk that? Is it for the thrill of seeing the snake kill something? That's one of the things that the haters of snake-keeping accuse us of, of being sadists who love to see our snakes kill other animals, animals they perceive as "cute" and "helpless". It's one of the things they are using against us, to implement bans on snake keeping. If a snake will eat pre-killed, frozen-thawed prey items, at least you don't have to add fuel to THAT fire, and you eliminate the risk of the snake being injured, which happens a lot more than you think in captivity. Sorry if I've misread your reply, but it really does sound to me that you want a venomous snake JUST to watch it kill mice. There is nothing "unique" about ANY rodent-feeding snake, venomous or not. They are a majority, by far, of captive snakes. A venomous snake that eats rodents will typically just pick up a dead mouse and start swallowing, just like most non-venomous snakes will, especially if they're captive-bred and used to being fed f/t. There's nothing "unique" about that at all. I've had Canebrakes and Copperheads that ate their food exactly the same way my Rat and King Snakes ate theirs. If you don't, as you claim, plan on actually feeding live prey to the snake, what's the point in wanting something venomous simply because of how it kills prey? That really does not make sense. That's like someone claiming that they'd never be involved in dog-fighting and have no intentions of fighting THEIR dog, but they still want a Pit Bull Terrier only because it has the POTENTIAL to beat up/kill other dogs...riiiiiight.

pitbulllady

 

[Lifeforms]

There are many factors that go into the lethality of a bite. There are also many things that might not make you dead, but can make you very, very sorry. People find themselves alive post-envenomation, but possibly maimed, disfigured, and buried in medical bills. Also, procedurally, keeping any kind of venomous snakes properly is a much bigger pain than keeping constrictors (kingsnakes, boas, tons of things,) or crunchers like hognoses.

Unless your reasons are compelling, you'll eventually wish you had gotten something you didn't have to lock and unlock and use tools with every time, and you might have a very hard time finding someone who can properly take a hot animal off your hands. If you want a cool reptile, your nonvenomous options are great, and if you ever wanted to move it, any person you approve of can take responsibility.

 

[lizardminion]

If you don't, as you claim, plan on actually feeding live prey to the snake, what's the point in wanting something venomous simply because of how it kills prey? That really does not make sense. That's like someone claiming that they'd never be involved in dog-fighting and have no intentions of fighting THEIR dog, but they still want a Pit Bull Terrier only because it has the POTENTIAL to beat up/kill other dogs...riiiiiight.

pitbulllady

I'd guess it's the thought of it that counts. Some people just like the concept.
I'm just curious if there is any snake that could kill a mouse with it's venom, but not a human. I don't quite see why the discussion went this way.
I would rarely feed a live (adult) mouse to a snake, although sometimes the pre-killed mice are unavailable at the time they're needed.

 

[The Snark]

I'd recommend the -harmless- Asian Rat snake. If you manage to go 30 consecutive days without getting nipped you qualify to keep cobras, taipans, rattlers and the like and won't have to bother with mildly hazardous training snakes. If you manage to get a wild caught one venom becomes a non issue as they tend to pack enough bacteria in their mouths to keep a microbiologist happy for months.

 

[catfishrod69]

I agree with pitbullady. Never feed live to any snake, unless its needed to ween them onto FT, or for picky eaters.

 

[NikiP]

You mentioned wanting something other then constriction feeding, but are you to referring to all constrictors or mostly boas/pythons? Are you looking for more "hunting" action? Are you wanting a species that's different ("cooler" really varies with taste) to show off?

There is a wide world of snakes out there that you're likely to never see in a pet store. I'm not fond of boas/pythons (although I did recently acquire a childrens python, & he is awesome) mostly due to their thick look & ambush style of eating. Colubrids have struck my fancy with their wide variety of choices. Plenty of them are diurnal with fairly active life styles & inquisitive natures. Many will provide quite a show & may be best to handle with the help of a hook, without the dangers of venom.

Heck, there's more out there then just corns & kings (nothing against them, I just wanted less common.) Amongst my species, the majority do well with a "see food/eat it" diet. My Chinese beauty snake (O. t. taeniurus) certainly eats whenever/wherever, but lately i've fed her off tongs & would like to see if I can position her to catch food in motion. Recently I also acquired a CB young male mexican/tiger rat snake (Spilotes pullatus) who will eat f/t, but requires teasing & sometimes careful placement in the branches (it's been hit or miss on if he'll eat in front of me, but he eats & is still new, so no complaints!) Not your typical beginner snake, but has very interesting behaviors. He will "bob" side to side in the air (normal for this species, they triangulate), LOTS of slow tongue movement, puffing, hissing, tail rattling, etc. I've read that they are thought to be closer related to Dyrmarchon (a group of snakes including the indigos & cribos), that prefer to use blunt force (bashing, chewing, etc) to kill over constriction. As he continues to settle in, I am hoping to see more interesting feeding behaviors.

Eventually I want to add more rear fanged species, but there are safer options out there.

I'd recommend the -harmless- Asian Rat snake. If you manage to go 30 consecutive days without getting nipped you qualify to keep cobras, taipans, rattlers and the like and won't have to bother with mildly hazardous training snakes.

Which kind of "Asian rat snake"? I think you are referring to the radiated rat snake, C. radiatus? I just picked up a young albino female, such fun! She shows me plenty of love The puffing is cute also

 

[catfishrod69]

If your wanting something active, a Thamnophis is the way to go. They are out and about alot. They are super hardy, require no special care, and are cheap. If you seen my Thamnophis eques obscurus, you would be begging for one. Hoping babies are on the way.

 

[NikiP]

If your wanting something active, a Thamnophis is the way to go. They are out and about alot. They are super hardy, require no special care, and are cheap. If you seen my Thamnophis eques obscurus, you would be begging for one. Hoping babies are on the way.

There are some really awesome looking garters out there. http://www.albinogartersnake.com/pricing.htm

My favorite has to be his neon blue california red sided.

 

[pitbulllady]

You mentioned wanting something other then constriction feeding, but are you to referring to all constrictors or mostly boas/pythons? Are you looking for more "hunting" action? Are you wanting a species that's different ("cooler" really varies with taste) to show off?

There is a wide world of snakes out there that you're likely to never see in a pet store. I'm not fond of boas/pythons (although I did recently acquire a childrens python, & he is awesome) mostly due to their thick look & ambush style of eating. Colubrids have struck my fancy with their wide variety of choices. Plenty of them are diurnal with fairly active life styles & inquisitive natures. Many will provide quite a show & may be best to handle with the help of a hook, without the dangers of venom.

Heck, there's more out there then just corns & kings (nothing against them, I just wanted less common.) Amongst my species, the majority do well with a "see food/eat it" diet. My Chinese beauty snake (O. t. taeniurus) certainly eats whenever/wherever, but lately i've fed her off tongs & would like to see if I can position her to catch food in motion. Recently I also acquired a CB young male mexican/tiger rat snake (Spilotes pullatus) who will eat f/t, but requires teasing & sometimes careful placement in the branches (it's been hit or miss on if he'll eat in front of me, but he eats & is still new, so no complaints!) Not your typical beginner snake, but has very interesting behaviors. He will "bob" side to side in the air (normal for this species, they triangulate), LOTS of slow tongue movement, puffing, hissing, tail rattling, etc. I've read that they are thought to be closer related to Dyrmarchon (a group of snakes including the indigos & cribos), that prefer to use blunt force (bashing, chewing, etc) to kill over constriction. As he continues to settle in, I am hoping to see more interesting feeding behaviors.

Eventually I want to add more rear fanged species, but there are safer options out there.



Which kind of "Asian rat snake"? I think you are referring to the radiated rat snake, C. radiatus? I just picked up a young albino female, such fun! She shows me plenty of love The puffing is cute also

Let's not forget the smaller, faster relatives of the Dyrmarchon clan, the Coachwhips and Racers-fast, intelligent(for snakes, anyway), and not constrictors. Some Racers can be tricky to pursuade to eat f/t, though.

I think that by "Asian Rat Snake", the Snark is referring to the Ptyas family. I used to have a P. mucosa, which was a great snake, more like a big Coachwhip than our Rat Snakes or the Asian Elapha. I really, really wish those were sold in the US more often.

pitbulllady

 

[Nebulosa]

Like the others before me, I'd recommend a non-venomous species to start out with (there are venomous snake mimics if you're looking for that dangerous "look"). But, if you are fascinated with species that are technically venomous, there are, as the others previously pointed out, rear-fanged options. My favorites include the western and (especially) Mexican hognose snakes, lyre snakes, night snakes, ring-necks, shovel-nose, etc. (good luck finding most of these to purchase though). Lyre snakes and the entirely aquatic, fish-eating tentacled snakes are my favorites. Both have somewhat of a viperid look (enlarged, angular heads and eliptical pupils). The tentacled snake is awesome in that it can actually stun it's prey (fish) with an electrical pulse it sends out in the water (the only snake known to do this).

 

[NikiP]

Let's not forget the smaller, faster relatives of the Dyrmarchon clan, the Coachwhips and Racers-fast, intelligent(for snakes, anyway), and not constrictors. Some Racers can be tricky to pursuade to eat f/t, though.

I think that by "Asian Rat Snake", the Snark is referring to the Ptyas family. I used to have a P. mucosa, which was a great snake, more like a big Coachwhip than our Rat Snakes or the Asian Elapha. I really, really wish those were sold in the US more often.

pitbulllady

Yes, yes! I keep forgetting they are related. Have heard great things about the intelligence of just about the entire group. Although i'd read people comparing Elaphe s. schrencki to them also, hoping to get my hands on a hatchling this year.

Ahh, I wasn't even thinking about Ptyas. This thread has my favorite pictures of them: http://fieldherpforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1376