New to inverts - looking for a recommendation

Wicked Witch

Arachnopeon
Joined
Feb 4, 2018
Messages
24
I come here for help on one thing and you guys help me with several different things. I really appreciate this.

I've found a few plant species native to the area I'm looking at, which are mostly ferns. The unfortunate part is that most of the readily available ones are shrubby or large, such as Hesperaloe parviflora. I could probably make some work by cutting the apical meristem on a young plant and just trim, but I can't say I agree with that from a moral perspective and then I also have to account for the fact a lot of them are full-sun plants that wouldn't thrive under LED's. I'll have to get a catalogue though and maybe contact the people at my local nursery, see if they can't make something happen.
 

LawnShrimp

Arachnoangel
Joined
Dec 9, 2016
Messages
907
Orthoporus can get 6+ inches with proper care and are highly tolerant of dry conditions (though they spend a lot of time underground when it is as dry as you are describing). Most millipedes don't discharge that often, and as the snake probably would not be interested in eating the milli and the milli would rather coil up than discharge, I doubt you'll have a problem with that. One guy on Instagram (chrisweeet) keeps all of his tropical snakes in bioactive terrariums that often contain large millipedes, and he has no problems with those.

Centipedes are relatively easy to take care of and a beginner can keep most species alive. However, a smaller and less dangerous sp. like polymorpha is best to start with. A very large dehaani is both aggressive and skittish, and will be very eager to escape. Its bite is also one of the most painful of any centipede, or invertebrate in general. That said, a dehaani would be best in a larger, planted terrarium because they prefer more humid and jungle-y conditions. Polys are better off in a medium-sized plastic tub with sand, grit, and coir.

Neither species (or millipedes) will take advantage of the PVC, and both will probably avoid it as centipedes like to have both their top side and bottom side touching the substrate. While tarantulas and scorpions like having overhangs, centipedes prefer to bury themselves under the soil. Several of mine don't even leave noticeable openings when they burrow and simply dig themselves out when they want to. All centipedes are built to swim through their substrate with ease, so no matter how deep, a cave-in would pose no problem for them. If a bark hide is provided, many species prefer to use that then burrow. Molting is also not an issue as centipedes will use hides or make very secure chambers to molt in. If the substrate is a good mix of cocofiber or peat, sand, and other minor components, the pipes are not necessary.

Do not use isopods with centipedes or millipedes. Most species larger than dwarf white isopods will eat centipedes and millipedes when they molt and eat millipede eggs. Dwarf white may be okay to use but I would be cautious. Springtails are totally fine and work very well with all myriapods.
 

Wicked Witch

Arachnopeon
Joined
Feb 4, 2018
Messages
24
Lawnshrimp-

I really appreciate this response! I didn't have my heart set on isopods, especially not in the dry enclosure as I wasn't confident I could keep the commonly-available species alive (hence why I'm looking for other CUC's to round it out). Temperate springtails I'll attempt, but I suspect they'll die off rather quickly as well. Would mealworms or Asbolus verrucosus provide the same problems as isopods?

For the dry enclosure, I think I'll either try ornatus or texicolens since they seem to be the most readily available members of their genus. I'm also fine with them staying totally hidden, but will do my best to accommodate their needs as well. My plan so far is to have the bottom two inches of substrate damp, with the top four remaining mostly dry. I'll also have humid areas filled with sphagnum moss (this species simply for its ease of availability and antibacterial properties) should they or the snake even desire it. Does that sound like it'd work for either of those species?


And the centipede enclosure will come after this one. I might consider a giant millipede for this, but I think I'm going to do a centipede for this one. Polymorpha is probably the species I'm going to go with, because I'm not intimidated by quick, bitey things. It's just if an escape occured I wouldn't want a potentially dangerous insect roaming the house. Namely because my dogs would likely find it before me.

Besides springtails though, what could I add to the CUC of a centipede enclosure that would go beneath their notice? I'm not concerned as far as replacing it, but I wouldn't want it to gorge on insects and overeat.

I'm also already aware of chrisweeet, and have some strong opinions of him as to how he treats his hots, but I was unaware that he used millipedes for his setups. Thank you for this, as I'll have to browse his page to see how he accomplishes this.

I'm also totally fine leaving out the PVC, especially in the centipede's enclosure although I might still add it for the snake because he often tries to go underground when he turns blue. I have Gonglyophis colubrinus, which live similar fossorial lives so I can accommodate the pedes similarly as I do them. I'll just lay cork flats and slate rocks on the top of the substrate to let them burrow underneath. Slate rock wouldn't be too heavy, would it? The pieces I use are usually a few pounds and I don't want them to get crushed.

Thank you again!
 

Greasylake

Arachnoprince
Joined
Jul 23, 2017
Messages
1,324
Any CUC bigger than springtails could potentially eat your centipede while it's molting so you'd be taking a risk introducing them to a setup and anything bigger than an isopod would most likely become a snack for the centipede. I believe slate would be fine as centipedes are commonly found under rocks in the wild anyway and the pieces of slate would give them a cooler place to hide if they ever wanted it.
 

Wicked Witch

Arachnopeon
Joined
Feb 4, 2018
Messages
24
I'll be cautious to select a CUC in both of these vivariums then. Temperate springtails, hopefully, will be more tolerant of dry conditions, and I'll have humid pockets setup with moss for everyone to use.

Really excited about both of these and to get into invertebrates. Might end up getting more if I really like them, and will definitely have to stick around to learn more. Thanks to everyone who's responded! It's greatly appreciated.
 

LawnShrimp

Arachnoangel
Joined
Dec 9, 2016
Messages
907
Lawnshrimp-

I really appreciate this response! I didn't have my heart set on isopods, especially not in the dry enclosure as I wasn't confident I could keep the commonly-available species alive (hence why I'm looking for other CUC's to round it out). Temperate springtails I'll attempt, but I suspect they'll die off rather quickly as well. Would mealworms or Asbolus verrucosus provide the same problems as isopods?

For the dry enclosure, I think I'll either try ornatus or texicolens since they seem to be the most readily available members of their genus. I'm also fine with them staying totally hidden, but will do my best to accommodate their needs as well. My plan so far is to have the bottom two inches of substrate damp, with the top four remaining mostly dry. I'll also have humid areas filled with sphagnum moss (this species simply for its ease of availability and antibacterial properties) should they or the snake even desire it. Does that sound like it'd work for either of those species?

And the centipede enclosure will come after this one. I might consider a giant millipede for this, but I think I'm going to do a centipede for this one. Polymorpha is probably the species I'm going to go with, because I'm not intimidated by quick, bitey things. It's just if an escape occured I wouldn't want a potentially dangerous insect roaming the house. Namely because my dogs would likely find it before me.

Besides springtails though, what could I add to the CUC of a centipede enclosure that would go beneath their notice? I'm not concerned as far as replacing it, but I wouldn't want it to gorge on insects and overeat.

I'm also already aware of chrisweeet, and have some strong opinions of him as to how he treats his hots, but I was unaware that he used millipedes for his setups. Thank you for this, as I'll have to browse his page to see how he accomplishes this.

I'm also totally fine leaving out the PVC, especially in the centipede's enclosure although I might still add it for the snake because he often tries to go underground when he turns blue. I have Gonglyophis colubrinus, which live similar fossorial lives so I can accommodate the pedes similarly as I do them. I'll just lay cork flats and slate rocks on the top of the substrate to let them burrow underneath. Slate rock wouldn't be too heavy, would it? The pieces I use are usually a few pounds and I don't want them to get crushed.

Thank you again!
Mealworms could possibly injure a molting centipede. Asbolus have been used with sympatric species such as polymorpha and heros that have similar care requirements and the centipedes seem to ignore them. I don't believe that Asbolus would eat a molting centipede but in my opinion, centipedes are easily stressed by other large, moving animals, and it would be best to keep them separate. Many people use T. tomentosa as a cleanup for centipedes; while there is a risk, it is much less than larger isopods and even less if leaf litter or other edibles are provided.
I only use springtails (Folsomia sp.) with all my humid-habitat centipedes and I never see feces, prey scraps, mold, or other fungi. The substrate is about half/half coir and peat with shreds of dead moss mixed in. A desert species might have more luck with a different springtail like Cyphoderus that can handle drier conditions.

Slates have fallen and killed molting millipedes and centipedes before; it is a fairly common sight to see a squashed milli under even a fairly light rock in the wild. Just cork bark would do unless the slate is raised high enough so that only the snake would go under it and the millipede would find somewhere more accommodating to molt. I am a little concerned that the milli could get stuck in the PVC if it falls into one as they cannot climb smooth surfaces.

Otherwise it seems that your setup is good; neither centipedes nor millipedes depend heavily on cleanup crews and both are fairly forgiving in care requirements.
 

Wicked Witch

Arachnopeon
Joined
Feb 4, 2018
Messages
24
Slight misunderstanding. I think springtails would do fine in the centipede-only enclosure, but my snake has a fairly high metabolism. I was concerned if I couldn't keep the springtails alive, I could attempt the Asbolus. However, if similar issues arise I'll leave it be.

I can also leave the slate be, as it was really more for the CUC as this snake hasn't burrowed on his own in several years... He just takes advantage of the burrows I dig for him lol.

The PVC will also be half-pipes, just to support and maintain the integrity of the burrows long-term. The floor of the tunnels will still be substrate, maybe hardened clay so that everything can climb in and out but it'll hopefully make it last longer.

Also, one small question: do you know the genus name for T. tomentosa? It's not clear to me which species you're referencing.
 

Greasylake

Arachnoprince
Joined
Jul 23, 2017
Messages
1,324
Those would be the Trichorhina tomentosa, aka dwarf white isopods. You should be able to find starter colonies fairly easily online or if there's an expo coming up I've also seen people selling starter cultures there. However, if you find ispods at an expo you're more than likely going to find springtails too and they'll probably be cheaper.
 

Wicked Witch

Arachnopeon
Joined
Feb 4, 2018
Messages
24
Unfortunately, we only have one expo within a 2 hour drive distance and it's extremely small (which is weird as I live in a big city). The only feeders I've ever seen there were live mice, although there are usually a few invertebrate booths mostly consisting of tarantulas. Those are still the only invertebrates I've ever seen sold there. More than likely, I'd have to purchase some online. Is bugs in cyberspace reliable?
 

Greasylake

Arachnoprince
Joined
Jul 23, 2017
Messages
1,324
I've bought from Peter at bugs in cyberspace many times and I can vouch for him and say he definitely knows what he's doing. If you order from him though you'll get a starter colony and you'll have to set them up and wait for them to establish themselves before introducing them to the colony. You could also keep an eye on the classifieds section of arachnoboards to see if someone is selling cultures. I got two dwarf purple cultures and a springtail culture for 30 bucks from someone on here.
 

Scoly

Arachnobaron
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
Messages
488
I would LOVE to see some photos or video of your communal S. mulitans tank!
I'm actually transferring them to my second largest as it's still plenty space, and gonna use my largest for...drum roll...millipedes!!! I haven't kept millipedes since 1999 :wideyed:

And I've been on a blackberry for ages so not been taking pics, but will upload some here once moves are complete.
 

Dovey

Arachnobaron
Joined
Apr 9, 2016
Messages
541
What native Texan snake is primarily arboreal? Until you said that it was a Texas native, I completely had a tree boa in my mind's eye!
 

Wicked Witch

Arachnopeon
Joined
Feb 4, 2018
Messages
24
Dovey-

Semi-arboreal. But he's a P. bairdi. Easily my favorite captive, simply for the fact he's almost never hiding. Usually he spends the day, his resting hours, basking off the ground. At night he's just all over the place. They have isolated populations in Texas and Mexico, usually can find them wedged into the rocks of cliff faces. They thrive off the spring water that leaks from them.
 

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Dovey

Arachnobaron
Joined
Apr 9, 2016
Messages
541
A Bairds Rattie! And a big one if that photo tells the truth. What a beautiful specimen. They are a marvelous species!
 
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