New to inverts - looking for a recommendation

[Greasylake]

My centipede made a pretty extensive tunnel system throughout the entire enclosure so I'm pretty sure they'd end up making their own tunnels as well as using the PVC ones. Either way as long as they can burrow their way in they should be able to burrow their way out if the tunnel collapses.

 

[Greasylake]

I read a paper that said that calcium sand actually caused crystals to build up inside of certain inverts.

 

[Dovey]

Oh, and regarding centipede bites, absolutely, do not get bitten, not by any species. I'm not even talking about venom toxicity, they just absolutely hurt like 7734, you better believe it! I speak as I find. Stepped on a little 3 inch house centipede barefoot here in Arizona when we first moved into this house, and I could cry right now just remembering it. Bark scorpion stings pale in comparison, and I'm sure you've heard about their reputation for ouch.

 

[NYAN]

Oh yes, my comment was completely general. Not at all aimed at you. I totally got what you were saying. One just gets such bad advice from pet stores and so forth that I thought it was worth saying in general not to let desert species get too hot and dry. A guy here actually tried to get me to put a heating mat, and not a small one either, underneath a locally obtained heros. I was nice about it, but I basically implied he ought to be written up for animal cruelty.

I figured it wasn’t aimed at me but wanted to clarify anyway and give an example. I totally agree that the terms desert, tropical etc. Can be interperited incorrectly, and that petstores normally are bad for advice.

 

[Greasylake]

Polymorpha is supposed one of the most mild bites and someone on here that handled them all the time said it wasn't a big deal to get bitten and he'd taken a few bites. Subspinipes and dehaani, however, are a completely different story.

 

[NYAN]

Polymorpha is supposed one of the most mild bites and someone on here that handled them all the time said it wasn't a big deal to get bitten and he'd taken a few bites. Subspinipes and dehaani, however, are a completely different story.

I’ve taken maybe half a dozen polymorpha bites and agree that they are pretty mild. Never been bitten by any other species though, knock on wood.

 

[Wicked Witch]

I won't be using calcium sand. It's bad for everything it's on, and wouldn't touch it with a 20m pole if I was getting paid for it. I use washed play sand in my mixtures, and I've never had any problems.

Dovey-

Oh no. I wasn't suggesting I'd be relaxed about a bite. I just wouldn't feel comfortable owning an animal that could land me in a hospital bed (excluding allergic reactions). I don't know what would hurt worse in that situation, the pain or the bill, and frankly would like to avoid that situation all together lol

 

[Wicked Witch]

Oh and the PVC will be half pipes. The floor will still be substrate, but the PVC will be in place to support the integrity of the burrow.

 

[Wicked Witch]

Ignore this. I accidentally spammed this forum and double posted.

 

[7Fin]

Can I hijack this thread and attempt to curve thine attention to the humble giant millipede? Why you ask?

Since you're new to inverts, I'd say that a millipede would suit you more as they're far easier to keep. Probably the easiest out there along with giant roaches. I've heard centipedes are escape artists. Not only that, but millipede's are probably the safest choice for a beginner, extremely slow and gentle and they couldn't hurt you if they tried. They're cheaper too, and you don't have to pay for live foods etc..

Millipedes are probably the ultimate collection invert, it's really fun to keep a large colony of them, and you can mix n' match species however it pleases you as long as all of their temperature humidity needs are made.

They're are super low maintainence. Spray their enclosure every week or so, change their substrate every few months, drop in the occasional fruit and veg as treats if you want, and you'll be fine. They eat their substrate as a main food source, which I make with 50% rotting leaf litter and soft wood, 50% coco fibre/humus, and some crushed eggshells/cuttlefish bone for calcium.

One of my favourite things about millipedes is the huge choice on offer- They come in all shapes, sizes, and colours. You've got beautiful huge species such as Archispirostreptus Gigas, smaller colourful pedes such as Centrobolus Splendidus (the one on my avatar) or Chicobolus Spinigerus, and huge colourful pedes like Spirostreptus Sp. 8. And that's not even scratching the surface!

Millipede's are probably the best choice if you're new to the hobby. I started last summer with one species, now I keep three different species, and soon I plan to get more (Cameroon fat blacks are adrobss and I can't resist any longer I want I want I want >>>w>>> <3)

 

[Wicked Witch]

I absolutely don't mind being suggested millipedes! I'm fascinated simply by the appearance of them both, and while I admit I'm more attracted to centipedes reactive behaviors I won't discount millipedes. The only problem is that I plan on doing a live planted enclosure, and figured the millipedes might feel inclined to munch on them. I can take measures to prevent a burrowing bug from uprooting a plant, but consuming them would be harder.

It also wouldn't be an inconvenience for me to live feed, as I plan on getting back into lizards soon and I'll be breeding dubias and superworms for them (right now all I keep are snakes, however).

That being said, I'm still open to millipede species as well and plan on keeping a few small, dry species for a bioactive enclosure I'm planning for a snake (just to add variety to the clean up crew since I'm not sure I can keep springtails and even isopods alive in a dry-ish enclosure). So I might end up getting both anyways lol.

But you mentioned adding cuttlebone into the substrate? Will I need to dust their food too? And do you have any advice to keep them from munching on live plants?

 

[7Fin]

But you mentioned adding cuttlebone into the substrate? Will I need to dust their food too? And do you have any advice to keep them from munching on live plants?

Their main food source is the substrate, so I just mix it in there and the pedes are fine. You don't have to dust treats, but you can if you want an easy way of getting more calcium in their diets.

As for plants, millipedes are detritivores, so they tend to go for decomposing stuff, so larger plants should be fine. However, big pedes might mow down smaller plants, and shoots growing out of the soil have no hope whatsoever.

 

[Wicked Witch]

That's great to know. The plants at the bottom of the enclosure will be sparse, mostly just a few succulents and dried grass. I will have others planted into the background, but I doubt they'd make the effort to scale a 1m height to get at some snacks. Do you have any species to recommend? Those that come from more arid biotopes specifically are what I'm looking for.

 

[7Fin]

That's great to know. The plants at the bottom of the enclosure will be sparse, mostly just a few succulents and dried grass. I will have others planted into the background, but I doubt they'd make the effort to scale a 1m height to get at some snacks. Do you have any species to recommend? Those that come from more arid biotopes specifically are what I'm looking for.

In terms of US natives, for beginners, I've heard pedes of the Narceus genus (N. Americanus, N. Gordanus...) are very hardy and possibly some of the easiest to keep in the hobby. However Chicobolus Spinigerus is probably the best beginner species, as they have pretty colours, are fairly hardy, and are super active. Also they don't need too much space. Bumblebee millipedes also are great fun to keep in colonies.

But if you can get your hands on them, Centrobolus Splendidus would be at the top of my list. They're quite hardy in my experience, scarily active, and absolutely one of the prettiest in the hobby. While I myself haven't kept one, I've heard that Archispirostreptus Gigas is a great pede to start with- If you have a big enough vivarium.

 

[Wicked Witch]

Those are all fascinating! But unfortunately not exactly what I'm looking for. I'm in the process of constructing two enclosures, both with the same floor space of 120x60cm. One is the vivarium I've been discussing and the pede (either centipede or millipede) will be the sole inhabitant aside for a cuc. I'm also in the process of planning another enclosure, which will be the first one I build, and it'll likewise be bioactive but I'll also be housing a semi-arboreal snake in this and intended to include a species of millipede from an arid biotope since I'm not confident I can keep springtails and isopods alive in this, humid pockets included. Of course I'll keep those species in mind when planning the first where I'm more flexible on catering to the needs of the pede, especially the A. gigas since I'll probably have more than enough room to house it, but for the second vivarium I'm looking for arid millipede species that would be able to thrive. Especially considering the snake will likely spend most of his time off the ground and is unlikely to harass the millipede. Partly to add variety to my clean up crew, and mostly because it's an excuse to get a millipede lol. Know of any species that are easy to care for and would fit this bill?

 

[7Fin]

Those are all fascinating! But unfortunately not exactly what I'm looking for. I'm in the process of constructing two enclosures, both with the same floor space of 120x60cm. One is the vivarium I've been discussing and the pede (either centipede or millipede) will be the sole inhabitant aside for a cuc. I'm also in the process of planning another enclosure, which will be the first one I build, and it'll likewise be bioactive but I'll also be housing a semi-arboreal snake in this and intended to include a species of millipede from an arid biotope since I'm not confident I can keep springtails and isopods alive in this, humid pockets included. Of course I'll keep those species in mind when planning the first where I'm more flexible on catering to the needs of the pede, especially the A. gigas since I'll probably have more than enough room to house it, but for the second vivarium I'm looking for arid millipede species that would be able to thrive. Especially considering the snake will likely spend most of his time off the ground and is unlikely to harass the millipede. Partly to add variety to my clean up crew, and mostly because it's an excuse to get a millipede lol. Know of any species that are easy to care for and would fit this bill?

Nearly all millipedes need a damp environment to survive, albeit some less than others (hardier species can put up with less. I've heard the Ghana Chocolate millipede is exceptionally tolerant). The only giant millipede that lives in an arid environment that I know of is O. Ornatus, a very beautiful US native that grows quite long. But I wouldn't be sure as they actually just need more ventilation, while still having high humidity meaning that they are extremely high maintainence.

I'm also not that sure about mixing a snake with a millipede. Pedes spray a defensive chemical when spooked, which is harmless to humans, but may tick off your snake. Equally, the snake might stress out the millipede.

 

[Wicked Witch]

Well, the biotope this specific animal comes from is weird, so it'll be damp just not humid. Tons of ventilation too considering this. The lower few inches of substrate I plan to keep damp, while the top remains dry. I'll also have a shallow water dish combined with a dripper system that will gradually, but continuously, add water to the system. It's arid as in dry, but it will be cool and it's not a true desert since there will be plenty of moisture in the system. The humidity will just be down.

I've also been slightly hesitant because of the chemicals, and is the main reason I'm asking because I've heard they're extremely hesitant to do this, but I'd like to hear the opinions of people who've kept them. The snake, for the most part, won't even be on the ground. He doesn't even use his hide boxes on the ground normally. There will be two major exceptions that I see to this though: one being when he's roaming at night and the other being when he goes into shed, he might try to seek shelter underground where it's a little more humid and he might desire a little more security. And of course the millipede doesn't have to be a giant, but I'm more or less trying to add variety to my CUC.

And thank you so much for being so helpful.

 

[Greasylake]

The O. Texicolens is a species native to Texas, and being from Texas myself I can tell you it can get VERY dry. So, assuming the millipedes can survive these conditions in the wild I'm assuming they would be okay in an arid environment in captivity too.

 

[Wicked Witch]

Greasylake-

If it's not too much to ask, can I inquire where? The species of snake I'm looking to house it is a Texas native, albeit they have a very limited range due to the fact they're only found near water sources within the Trans Pecos region. Was trying to find plants native to its range as much as I could, so of course I'd be inclined to do the same with the CUC.

 

[Greasylake]

I live in Houston so there's not much wildlife out here other than the butterflies I raise and some spiders I find in my backyard. As for finding native plants I'm sure there's a catalogue type book of plants native to the Southern U.S. and you could take a look in there for what you want. I have a similar book but with butterflies and I can tell you that at times it really comes in handy, so if you're interested in the flora then you might benefit from having one of these books anyway.