New T Owner (w/Questions)

[thruthetrees]

I went to the Bug Fair in Los Angeles yesterday and ended up with two slings... I'm a first time owner--I got a Suntiger (against their advice as a first time T... it was too pretty to not get I know I will do just fine with it though...) And, a Chaco Golden Knee... Sorry, I don't have the scientific names in front of me... I'll be getting a Versicolor sling this week as well

The Chaco is around 1/2" (it's FAT butt is probably 1/4") and it's in a very small/shallow sauce cup (maybe 2" diameter 1" tall). It seems way too small so I want to rehouse her. Here's a bad shot of current set up (there's a lid for this--just off for photo... I put a guitar pick for a little size reference..):
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2524/5724683200_80508974c8_b.jpg

The Suntiger is around 1.5" in a bigger deli cup which seems like a fine size but there's only 1/4" of substrate and nothing for her to hide or climb on... Here is her current set up:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2317/5724130109_d63133ba54_b.jpg

Questions:
I was told at the Fair that I cannot use a "kritter keeper" to house the T because of the "slats" on top... Is that true for only the Suntiger or both?

I haven't seen the Chaco climb the container it's in--not sure if it's just too short or if it cannot climb the way the Suntiger does... Is the small size kritter keeper (aka plastic "funarium") ok or is that too big for the Chaco? I cleaned out a deli cup thats a similar size to what the Suntiger is in... Would that be better?

What can I do about the Suntiger's current house? Not sure if I should/can put stuff in there? Or, should I wait til I move her into another more permanent house?

I read that I could get coco coir and sphagnum moss from Home Depot to use for T substrate... I am not sure if I got the right stuff--the moss isn't fine/ground up the way it looked in pet stores--I can cut it up but I wanted to make sure that was okay first... And, the coco coir is like a mat that you can cut to put in plant pots--I could also break it apart and cut it... Both have no additives... Are either ok? Is there something better (like the pet shop stuff)?

I live in So Cali--I read that the Suntiger likes 80-85F I am in a canyon that stays a lot cooler than most of the area... Do I need a heat mat for it?

I will take some better pictures of them once I get them more situated... Thanks for your help!!!
:clap:

 

[takelondon]

Okay, I'm gonna try to answer as many of these questions as I can, being pretty new to the hobby myself.

I don't know about the Kritter Keeper slats, as I've never used one. The only reason I can think of not to keep your Chaco in there is if it is small enough to fit between the slats. Perhaps someone else can shed some light on this.

The Chaco (Grammostola pulchripes) is a terrestrial species and is not a climber. I imagine either the KK or the deli cup should be fine at the size that it is now.

You should try to put your Suntiger (Psalmopoeus irminia) into a more vertically inclined enclosure and definitely put some stuff in there for her to climb on. I recommend cork bark (a light, mold-resistant bark that can be found at pet stores/from sellers on here) and fake plants for climbing and webbing.

I'm not sure about the coir and the moss (the coir looks fine from the pictures), as we use coco fiber as substrate for all of our tarantulas, and you can pick that up at any pet store.

Both of your species will like a temperature of about 80 degrees. I would not recommend a heat pad, as tarantulas will burrow to avoid heat, and can get burned (or so I've heard). I have never used one, we use a heat lamp. If you do use a heat lamp, DO NOT place it too close to the enclosures or your Ts can overheat; instead, place it a foot or two from their enclosures and monitor the temperature closely. Pet stores sell inexpensive temperature gauges and humidity gauges (hygrometers). A hygrometer will likely come in handy as your Suntiger will need humidity of around 80%, which you can achieve by misting the enclosure once every few days, and including a shallow but wide water dish once the Suntiger is a bit larger (at least a 2-3" legspan). The Chaco will like things dry and will start climbing the walls if the substrate is too moist. You can use a dropper to slightly moisten a portion (half or less) of the Chaco's substrate once a week or so.

As a side note, the Suntigers are not the best species for beginners, but I have one too (they're too darn pretty :drool. Just a forewarning, yours may start to show some defensive behavior, whereas your Chaco will most likely be very docile (they are often quoted as the most docile species of T). Hope this helps and enjoy your new Ts!

 

[grayzone]

both great ts and i currently have slings of both myself. im gonna start by saying BOTH ts houses are PERFECT for at least another molt. the P.irminia (suntiger) will eventually need a tall home, but as slings its not important as they will just burrow if you give it a big enclosure. they, like most arboreal tarantulas, wont need a arboreal setup till its around 2+". once they move from sling to juvie stage (2.5"-3.5") they should be ok in kritter keepers. Mainly the G. pulchripes ( golden knee). a kritter keeper (even when on its end) wouldnt be ideal for a irminia due to the small little openings they have in my opinion. you should use the search function , as you will see all sorts of easier, cheaper methods of t housing with a lil surfin around. i personally like TalonAWD's method using 2.5 to 5 gallon tanks and a lil plexi

---------- Post added at 09:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 PM ----------

also, Coco fiber substrate is PERFECT for both. thats what i use for all my ts. you can get a giant bag for like 10 bux? or in a brick form, however, you have to let it soak and expand. for the golden knee id let it dry a bit after, as they dont need/like it as moist as an irminia

 

[catfishrod69]

for the chaco use a small deli cup like a 1 pounder, then for the irminia, use a 2 pound deli cup....you can add a little substrate, and maybe a fake leaf for the chaco, but for the irminia, give it like a peice of fake leaf vine that has a few leaves on it....and as for the kritter keepers, i use them for everything from some T's, centipedes, assassins, and also my water scorpions....if you have a small kritter keeper it would be ok to use once the chaco gets to the right size...but with the irminia i would never do that, cause they are arboreal and like to be high, and they are lightning fast, and can glide, and also have very potent venom....they are the second most venomous T i have, next to my featherleg baboon...

 

[Crysta]

IMO what the irminia is in now, is fine until next molt, just add a stick and some dampness to the substrate. And air holes for ventilation.

However, if you go to your locale dollar store, into the tubbaware section they have these amazing things that are tall for different sizes of pasta - you could try those. Right now I use this for my avic. Shes 2.25ish inches? Comes with a snap on lid and I poked some holes in it. All for 1$ lol

BTW: coco coir and coco fiber = the same


For the chaco, just look in the section for something with a little more floor space, and make sure theres 3-4inches of soil and a hide.

Versi setup, and you can see the terrestrial setups in the back, just a clear small tubby. And theres her previous setup beside her. And my cute watering pot.

 

[Chris_Skeleton]

^I like that Acanthogonatus in the background :}

 

[Crysta]

^I like that Acanthogonatus in the background :}

Yeah, I can imagine the Acanthogonatus being like... "I always hated the Avicularia genus....clown squirting poo eveeerrryyywhere!!~~~so toss her over here I have the munchies!"

 

[Stan Schultz]

... I'm a first time owner ...

Very first thing, read Stan's Rant at http://people.ucalgary.ca/~schultz/stansrant.html. Pay particular attention to the part about not trusting or believing pet shops. And, the people who run the booths at reptile shows and bug fairs are often not a lot better. In fact, many of those booths are run by amateur herpetologists who somehow think you should care for a tarantula about like you care for a chameleon or water dragon. (But in all fairness, there are a lot of really good arachnoculturists running those booths as well. But, as a beginner, how do you tell the difference?)

Next, pay particular attention to the four books that are recommended. Read them all, preferably in the order they are listed.

Yeah, I know it's a lot of reading, but I didn't say you needed to complete the project by next Thursday! You're trying to catch up on half a billion years or more of evolution and development by these creatures. Take your time. You should consider yourself lucky it's only four books!

And, note that I DIDN'T TELL YOU TO GO OUT AND BUY THEM! Your friendly, neighborhood, public library almost surely has one or two on their shelves right now, and can get the others for you through the Interlibrary Loan Service. (Hint: Only order one at a time. Don't overwhelm yourself with too much heavy reading all at once.)

... The Chaco is around 1/2" (it's FAT butt is probably 1/4") ...

The Suntiger is around 1.5" ...

Enthusiasts normally use diagonal leg span (DLS) to describe the size of a tarantula. This is the distance from the tip of one front leg to the tip of the rear leg on the opposite side when the tarantula is resting in a normal posture.

Alternatively, body length is sometimes used instead. Body length is the straight line distance from the front of the chelicerae to the rear end of the abdomen, exclusive of the spinnerets. ("What's a 'chelicerae?' you ask? Do a search on this forum, read the books, or find out at the bottom of this posting.)

For the record, DLS is usually about twice the body length. It is good form to specify which measurement you're using. All of these measurements are best guesstimates and subject to some inherent error, so we never assume them to be "spot on" accurate.

... I was told at the Fair that I cannot use a "kritter keeper" to house the T because of the "slats" on top... Is that true for only the Suntiger or both? ...

There are several possible reasons for this advice:
1. If the tarantula is too young and/or small, it might be able to get through the openings.

2. All that open space between the slats allows a nearly 100% ventilation. This has important ramifications where humidity is concerned, especially with little spiderlings.

3. Tarantulas often climb in their cages, and then often reach between the slats in an effort to get out. There is always the possibility that it will get stuck or hook a claw on something nearby and rip off a leg. Losing a leg is seldom a fatal thing with tarantulas, but it is disconcerting for both the tarantula and the enthusiast. And, it's silly to allow it to happen when it can be easily avoided.

Having said that, Kritter Keepers are among the most popular tarantula cages, and generally work well once the spider has reached perhaps 25% of its adult size.

... I haven't seen the Chaco climb the container it's in...

Not all terrestrial tarantulas climb, but a lot of them do. And a large percentage of them may never dig a burrow in captivity, but many do.

Not all arboreal tarantulas go the floor of the cage, but a lot of them do.

There is little importance to whether your particular tarantula climbs or doesn't, and that's even more true with cage bred individuals because they haven't the experience of living in a wild situation.

... --not sure if it's just too short or if it cannot climb the way the Suntiger does... Is the small size kritter keeper (aka plastic "funarium") ok or is that too big for the Chaco? I cleaned out a deli cup thats a similar size to what the Suntiger is in... Would that be better?

What can I do about the Suntiger's current house? Not sure if I should/can put stuff in there? Or, should I wait til I move her into another more permanent house? ...

You're over-stressing the housing issue! Relax. Take a breath.

First, you are going to have to use a succession of several larger cages as the tarantulas grow. View these cages as merely an almost irrelevant, disposable means to an end.

Next, for any specific tarantula, the smaller/shorter horizontal dimension should be somewhere between 3 and 5 times the DLS. The longer dimension should be 2 to 5 times the shorter dimension. As the tarantula grows, move it to a larger container when it begins to appear cramped. (Yes, I know that sounds very loosy-goosy. But, this is not an exact science.)

The container should be short (defined as "un-tall") enough that the space between the top of the substrate and the top of the cage is no more than 1.5 the DLS fo9r terrestrial species. (Arboreal species generally don't care how tall the cage is.) This is to prevent injury to the tarantula in case it climbs and falls.

I am not going to discuss the proper care of baby tarantulas because this posting is already getting far to long. Instead, do a search on this forum (click he <search> link in the gray bar across the top of the page) for -

baby babies substrate

baby babies container

baby babies humidity

baby babies temperature

baby babies feeding

and any other search string that occurs to you.

... I read that I could get coco coir and sphagnum moss from Home Depot to use for T substrate...

Coco coir is also known generically as shredded coconut husk. In a dry cage it's okay. Many enthusiasts report that it tends to support rampant bacterial and fungal growths if kept damp.

You would or should not use sphagnum moss in a tarantula's cage. Sphagnum moss is a very fluffy, grayish or sand colored plant that grows in a bog. It either comes as crude, stringy moss or as a fluffy milled, chaff-like powder.

What you might mean is peat, black peat, or sphagnum peat. This is naturally composted plant material from the bottom of a special sort of swamp called a bog. You can get more information at http://people.ucalgary.ca/~schultz/errata3.html. Scroll down to the entry for page 139 and read the entry under "SUBSTRATE:" Peat vs. Shredded Coconut Husk."

... I am not sure if I got the right stuff--the moss isn't fine/ground up the way it looked in pet stores--I can cut it up but I wanted to make sure that was okay first...

You can read the entry under "Substrate" in our webpage http://people.ucalgary.ca/~schultz/roses.html (Care and Husbandry of the Chilean Rose Tarantula) for a brief discussion of substrates and their use. Unless you have a Chilean rose, the rest of the page may be amusing, but not very relevant.

... I live in So Cali--I read that the Suntiger likes 80-85F I am in a canyon that stays a lot cooler than most of the area... Do I need a heat mat for it?...

AAaaargh! The "temperature" thing again! No, you do not necessarily need a heat mat or any other heating appliance. Do a search on this forum (click he <search> link in the gray bar across the top of the page) using temperature as the as keyword, and Pikaia as the User Name.

Or, read http://www.tarantulas.co.za/forum/tarantula-general/26748-heating?limit=12&start=12#26887.

The basic rule is that the tarantulas will do just fine at whatever temperature you're comfortable at.
_________________________________________________________________

There are several global messages to be gained by all this:

1. There is a lot more to caring for a tarantula than you were at first led to believe.

2. Virtually all the information you need is laid out in a logical, orderly fashion in the four books I referred to. Read them and save yourself a lot of expense, dead tarantulas and grief.

3. Once you have those books under your belt, the search function of this and the other Internet forums is your biggest resource. Use it often and wisely.

Lastly, a chelicera (plural: chelicerae) are the knuckle-like appendages way up front on the tarantula's "face" that bear the fangs.

Enjoy your fantastic, little, 8-legged buddy!