New school and Old school hobbyists why the divide in some places?

[Paul1126]

Those <25 have been raised in a society generally devoid of personal responsibility,

What utter nonsense...

 

[FrDoc]

What utter nonsense...

Thank you for the compelling, and well presented counterpoint.

 

[Paul1126]

Thank you for the compelling, and well presented counterpoint.

And thank you for demonstrating your superiority complex!

 

[KaroKoenig]

IME, it only gets ugly when you come across those hardcore German enthusiasts, preferably in their own playground. That's why I very rarely post or give advice on the German tarantula forum, because whenever I try they come down on me like an apocalyptic storm.

"Coco fibre is the worst substrate and should never ever be used."
"An Exo Terra for a terrestrial species? No problem. There's no fall risk, you're delusional!"

And so on and so forth... I think, most of the Germans here all turned their backs on that particular forum because of this ridiculous "know-it-all and there's no other way of keeping Ts" attitude.
By the way, I'm one of them.

I hear you. Some rough going in that forum for sure. There are a lot of nice and patient people, but definetly some real or wannabe top dogs with a "Get off my lawn, kids" attitude.

I have joined arachnoboards because I heard a lot of good things about it. I have also joined because I have a habit to try to see beyond my own nose, hearing different opinions of - and approaches to - the hobby. There is some good in the german/european approach, and some good in the US approach. Being pretty new in the "real deal" of the hobby (i.e. having actual big spiders in glass containers in my house), I must admit that it can be pretty frustrating asking questions in any forum, because you do get answers that are often diametrically opposed to each other. I have a background in natural sciences, and I'm therefore used to all the fact-checking stuff, all the "trace-information-back-to-its-source" stuff. Still, it can be hard to filter through all the different information and find your way of doing things.

As for this forum: I have not yet been told off in here, because I didn't really give people the opportunity by asking questions yet . But I have read through quite a few threads, and so far, I can say that the treatment of newbies in here is rather gentle and polite. I like that.

 

[MrTwister]

Haven’t noticed much divide between old school and new school keepers. More a divide between those presenting advice based off fact and experience vs those seeking specific answers to validate their pre formed opinion.

 

[Bob Lee]

put them off asking the questions that are important.

Oh no! There are two tarantulas in my container, what do I do?

 

[Brachyfan]

Oh no! There are two tarantulas in my container, what do I do?

I knew a guy that bought a hamorii on an impulse buy. More of a reptile dude. He lost it when he found 2 spiders in his cage. He started screaming "Why would the pet store put 2 spiders in the cage! How did this big spider hide under the dirt for 3 months without me seeing it! And now it ate my spider!" Called the pet store and complained!

He thought hair kicking meant it's butt was itchy too

 

[Bob Lee]

What utter nonsense...

Well, it is quite true actually, most people don't understand that they are the problem when they cause a problem.

 

[Andrea82]

Well, it is quite true actually, most people don't understand that they are the problem when they cause a problem.

That is not confined to the age group of <25 people FrDoc mentioned though. There are people like that in every age group/generation.

 

[Bob Lee]

That is not confined to the age group of <25 people FrDoc mentioned though. There are people like that in every age group/generation.

Yeah, it does happen throughout all ages.
There is no such thing as bad old/young people, only aged bad people

 

[Glorious Baboon]

Let’s put it this way when I need advice on tarantulas that I can’t find multiple post to cross reference the common ground between them. I call an old school keeper for advice. And most the time it’s said bluntly but I don’t really take offense as it sticks better when they don’t beat around the bush and get straight to it.

 

[Goopyguy56]

There are a few complete jerks on these forums that are annoying for veterans and newbies alike. I don't feel the need to go into details. I try to stick up for the little people when I see someone getting bullied.

 

[Colorado Ts]

I've been on several chat forums going back almost 2 decades; not spider forums, but chats on different topics and genera.

What I'm seeing is a general shift that is pervasive across all internet sites. What I've seen in that 2 decade time frame is a progressive mindset shift towards "instant gratification". More and more people are too lazy to spend the time to find the answer for themselves, they would much rather type a question and have others do the heavy lifting for them. That approach is lazy and it cheapens knowledge in my opinion.

If I have a question, I'm perfectly capable of searching and finding the information on my own; that is my profession; it is how I was trained in my degree program in college. After a week or so searching...then I'll reach out to others for their knowledge. I'll reach out to individuals first then to a group. For example: I recently started a thread on the various color phases of the species Aphonopelma seemanni...that was after spending 3 weeks researching on the internet and approaching a couple of people who's depth of knowledge that I trust. I was getting only hints at what I was looking for and trying to find the answer; before I started the thread.

We all keep spiders...we all know that spiders will, from time to time, bury themselves. It is so easy to type in a search and have a multitude of threads pop up, then read what others have said on the topic...and then compare that information with your current situation. Once you've read through and sorted usable information from garbage, you make a decision and move on.

I lurked here for a couple months and then joined...I am amazed at the numbers of people asking questions that are so easily answered if they would just take the time to look. I understand that this is a difficult hobby and that these animals that we choose to keep are so different from any other type of pet, it can be overwhelming and surprising for a person that is new to this endeavor. Yet you still need to take ownership of what is needed to be successful.

Knowledge is earned...instant gratification be damned.

Oh yes...enjoy the holidays

 

[Brachyfan]

I've been on several chat forums going back almost 2 decades; not spider forums, but chats on different topics and genera.

What I'm seeing is a general shift that is pervasive across all internet sites. What I've seen in that 2 decade time frame is a progressive mindset shift towards "instant gratification". More and more people are too lazy to spend the time to find the answer for themselves, they would much rather type a question and have others do the heavy lifting for them. That approach is lazy and it cheapens knowledge in my opinion.

If I have a question, I'm perfectly capable of searching and finding the information on my own; that is my profession; it is how I was trained in my degree program in college. After a week or so searching...then I'll reach out to others for their knowledge. I'll reach out to individuals first then to a group. For example: I recently started a thread on the various color phases of the species Aphonopelma seemanni...that was after spending 3 weeks researching on the internet and approaching a couple of people who's depth of knowledge that I trust. I was getting only hints at what I was looking for and trying to find the answer; before I started the thread.

We all keep spiders...we all know that spiders will, from time to time, bury themselves. It is so easy to type in a search and have a multitude of threads pop up, then read what others have said on the topic...and then compare that information with your current situation. Once you've read through and sorted usable information from garbage, you make a decision and move on.

I lurked here for a couple months and then joined...I am amazed at the numbers of people asking questions that are so easily answered if they would just take the time to look. I understand that this is a difficult hobby and that these animals that we choose to keep are so different from any other type of pet, it can be overwhelming and surprising for a person that is new to this endeavor. Yet you still need to take ownership of what is needed to be successful.

Knowledge is earned...instant gratification be damned.

Oh yes...enjoy the holidays

Hit the nail on the head with this one!

 

[Vanessa]

What I'm seeing is a general shift that is pervasive across all internet sites. What I've seen in that 2 decade time frame is a progressive mindset shift towards "instant gratification". More and more people are too lazy to spend the time to find the answer for themselves, they would much rather type a question and have others do the heavy lifting for them. That approach is lazy and it cheapens knowledge in my opinion.

It certainly does cheapen knowledge and knowledge not earned is not retained. So, those people that you spoon feed information to are very often the same people who are asking you the same questions over and over again.

If I have a question, I'm perfectly capable of searching and finding the information on my own; that is my profession; it is how I was trained in my degree program in college. After a week or so searching...then I'll reach out to others for their knowledge.

Being resourceful has been a prerequisite for every single job that I have ever had for the last 30 years. I have no idea who is employing someone who lacks any semblance of being resourceful, because none of the people who have employed me would hire them.

It is so easy to type in a search and have a multitude of threads pop up, then read what others have said on the topic...and then compare that information with your current situation. Once you've read through and sorted usable information from garbage, you make a decision and move on.

And yet, when you do a google search for them and come back with a dozen links that literally took you three minutes to find, you end up being the one with the problem in their eyes and all you get is a face full of lousy attitude for your efforts.

 

[CommanderBacon]

fwiw I was a member of AB for almost a year before posting because I saw people being flat out jerks when responding to newbs. I had been keeping for almost three years and had 18 tarantulas by that point.

I work in technology and deal with developers and other tech resources all day. I'm very used to people gatekeeping information so they can act superior and make others feel small, and I saw (and still see) the same behavior on these boards regularly. I personally don't want to deal with that sort of bs in a relaxing hobby I enjoy.

I see a lot of people clapping each other on the back about it, but gatekeeping by design alienates new keepers. Its meant to shut them down and force them out, and one experienced keeper told me in no uncertain terms that's exactly why they did it. They called it thinning the herd, and considered anyone who couldn't take the abuse to be too weak to own tarantulas, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

It doesn't matter how much experience you have or how much you know, if your delivery is abrasive, your knowledge is going to fall on deaf ears. People don't listen when they feel attacked.

I think we can all do better.

 

[Poonjab]

fwiw I was a member of AB for almost a year before posting because I saw people being flat out jerks when responding to newbs. I had been keeping for almost three years and had 18 tarantulas by that point.

I work in technology and deal with developers and other tech resources all day. I'm very used to people gatekeeping information so they can act superior and make others feel small, and I saw (and still see) the same behavior on these boards regularly. I personally don't want to deal with that sort of bs in a relaxing hobby I enjoy.

I see a lot of people clapping each other on the back about it, but gatekeeping by design alienates new keepers. Its meant to shut them down and force them out, and one experienced keeper told me in no uncertain terms that's exactly why they did it. They called it thinning the herd, and considered anyone who couldn't take the abuse to be too weak to own tarantulas, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

It doesn't matter how much experience you have or how much you know, if your delivery is abrasive, your knowledge is going to fall on deaf ears. People don't listen when they feel attacked.

I think we can all do better.

I’m a chemical engineer and I deal with the exact same crap in my field. It’s almost like an ego contest. I’ve been keeping T’s for around 12 years, maybe more. It is a passion of mine but I don’t consider myself an expert because it’s not a field I’ve devoted my life to. I’ve been lurking these boards since 07 and just now created a profile. I 100% respect the old T keepers, but am also smart enough to know that times change and new info is produced, so they aren’t always right. I respect everyone here, even people I’ve got in confrontations with. Unfortunately, for me, I’m pretty used to calling people out if I feel they are hostile in the way they approach me. Unfortunately through text, it’s hard to read those vibes and often get misconstrued. I myself am guilty of that.

 

[CommanderBacon]

I’m a chemical engineer and I deal with the exact same crap in my field. It’s almost like an ego contest. I’ve been keeping T’s for around 12 years, maybe more. It is a passion of mine but I don’t consider myself an expert because it’s not a field I’ve devoted my life to. I’ve been lurking these boards since 07 and just now created a profile. I 100% respect the old T keepers, but am also smart enough to know that times change and new info is produced, so they aren’t always right. I respect everyone here, even people I’ve got in confrontations with. Unfortunately, for me, I’m pretty used to calling people out if I feel they are hostile in the way they approach me. Unfortunately through text, it’s hard to read those vibes and often get misconstrued. I myself am guilty of that.

I feel the same. I try to be compassionate when it happens to me and just pick the relevant information out of what was offered and ignore the bs because I don't have patience to deal with someone else's weird emotional baggage, but when pushed too much/far, I will push back.

I feel like not calling out bad behavior makes me complicit, though, when the same sort of garbage treatment I'd personally ignore is directed against someone else who doesn't know any better and doesn't deserve it. I will usually say something.

 

[Vanessa]

I'm very used to people gatekeeping information so they can act superior and make others feel small, and I saw (and still see) the same behavior on these boards regularly. I personally don't want to deal with that sort of bs in a relaxing hobby I enjoy.
I see a lot of people clapping each other on the back about it, but gatekeeping by design alienates new keepers.

I don't understand how you can accuse this forum of gatekeeping information when it is literally a huge online encyclopedia of feedback from thousands of keepers for the last two decades. And, with the exception of a couple of off topic sub-forums, you don't even have to be a member here to have access to all of it.
I fail to see how anyone is gatekeeping anything on this forum.

 

[Colorado Ts]

What I find irritating is a person that pushes their OPINION as fact. They have little or no scientific support for their opinion; yet they push their opinion onto others. I've also seen where this type of person will take scientific information, or some sort of professional position and twist the meaning of that data to meet some type of support of their opinion.

The infuriating part is that if you disagree with their opinion...you are made to feel that you are a bad person, through personal angry attacks.

For me that is the ultimate example of closed minded garbage.

...some people's kids.