New school and Old school hobbyists why the divide in some places?

[cold blood]

Personally, my biggest issue is the fact that it seems too many people are more concerned with how information is given to them, than the information given to them itself.

I don't care if somebody is curt about their information or even slightly rude, I worry more that the information that they are presenting is correct and helpful.

If the information being given is helpful and correct, why should it matter if you don't like the way it said, and this is up for interpretation anyway. The most important part of any informational post is the information, and not the way it's posted or any percieved attutude .

People often take things the wrong way and read into things the wrong way and as a result ignore excellent information because of this. This gets me face-palming.

 

[Lorgakor]

I agree with Cold Blood. People take offence very easily these days.

However this discussion is nothing new. This same issue came up all the time back when I joined this forum over 15 years ago. Now the newbies from back then are the veterans, and the veterans have mostly moved on. Most of the time the biggest bone of contention was the lack of using the search button.

 

[ThorsCarapace22]

I feel there is a big gap between harsh and to the point advice, and someone going out of their way to ridicule and, well, just being an arse.

Of all the hobbies I get involved with online, T keeping can be right up there for the latter. It's some kind of strange snobbery that really doesn't benefit the person asking or show the person answering in a good light, so I don't get why it's done.

I 100% get the "harsh and to the point" advice though. I dabble in and out of this forum and reddit depending on what else I'm focused on in life, and when I do, I try and help anyone I can, but it does get old very fast answering the same questions all the time...

I have noticed that low effort posts asking advice get low effort and more aggressive answers. The people who have done research, tried to set up a good enclosure, post photos and clearly beam about getting their first T and just want to check with some "experts" that they are doing ok, will start up a conversation and get less abuse.

But I think the correct answer is - that's the internet for you.

I agree. But if people on here think that the old timers are harsh, they should join a Blacksmithing forum. You have to almost fist fight every post you make. Not too long ago I had a guy threaten to slap me because of a picture I posted. It was my son playing with a hammer. He didnt have safety glasses. After they told me he should be wearing safety glasses I told them I agree with them. Then they stated saying I was a bad father and he should smack me for not knowing any better. I told him that where I'm from if he tried to slap me he wouldn't make it two foot off of my porch without.......well.....it was deleted. And I shouldn't have got so worked up. Online drama is kind of silly. But man...I need help with my temper.

 

[johnny quango]

I've been around this forum for over 6 years and I've seen my fair share of arguments and crappy comments, To be fair though there as been times when a noob as deserved all they have got due to "I know best attitude" that comes attached with their ego. This also works the other way I've seen a bit of ego from experienced keepers that should know better.

A lot stems from a lack of research as other members have said when the answers are just a click away.
I personally don't mind being asked questions by new keepers,i just don't answer if it's the old " I feed my rosea 3 crickets per week and it's stopped eating what should i do?"
We are human after all (well most) o we often get fed up with repeating ourselves.
I do however more often than not answer almost all pms

 

[DARTH ARACHNUS]

It's great to see a wide response from long time members and newer ones there is a lot of very valid points put across.
As mentioned iam new to forums I did a lot of research on my own I.e other online sources and guest diving into here before stating to branch out to others about a hobby iam very passionate about and devote a lot of my time to etc.
Not personally recieved what I call harshness seen what I thought was harshness on others...
I stand corrected with a few exceptions I.e people who cant take criticism even though its logical advice or someone going out to be just a dick but everyone can have a moment.
Way I personally see it now there is no divide wrong choice of words for a title lol
Just a number of misunderstandings and frustrations that a lot of people have have gotten out in the thread.

 

[Andrea82]

Just me. I do not believe this situation is an old/new school keeper issue. It’s a generational issue. Those of us who are >50 were generally raised in a right/wrong environment wherein there were consequences for wrong actions. Those <25 have been raised in a society generally devoid of personal responsibility, and wherein direct confrontation is shunned as being...wait for it...OFFENSIVE. Notice I use the qualifier “generally” above because there are exceptions to the norm. However, I don’t think many could argue convincingly against the hypothesis that “new school keepers”, i.e., younger keepers, have a tendency to be thin skinned regarding direct criticism. I belly laugh every time I see a post by a newer keeper asking for input about their enclosure, and then rage against the critiques they asked to receive.

Can you make that 30 to 40 years? You're making me feel old with my old school upbringing of right and wrong

 

[FrDoc]

Can you make that 30 to 40 years? You're making me feel old with my old school upbringing of right and wrong

I yield to your request for updated parameters.

 

[Lolth62]

I am new to this but my experiences have been varied. I have deleted a post not on here due to such off putting answers that made me sorry I asked. Before I bought any tarantulas I read and watched for about a year finally becoming so interested I got one or 4. If I answer a question I feel like people may think I believe I know it all, but I have done a lot of research, but nothing prepares you for the actual hands on experience. I appreciate those who have had patience with me as I ask stupid questions and helping others makes me feel good. I have had one person say I know nothing by having a sling, others that it is good experience. I hope those with knowledge will still help those of us without as this is considered a reputable site.

 

[viper69]

I'm a newb and I really don't mind getting "harsh" replies. Criticism often help you learn what not to do or say, while if everyone is super nice, you don't learn as easily. Just my opinion.

You are light years ahead of the normal many of us encounter here. Keep it up.

The next question is why the occasional divide between North American enthusiasts and European enthusiasts. I've seen that one get ugly once or twice before.

Thanks,

Arthroverts

This is interesting, I have never ever noticed this. Any links? What I can offer is Europeans have been doing this longer. They were the ones who first started identifying the gender of species at such small sizes, far before the USA was doing it. They have the experience that's all, especially the Germans.

In other husbandry areas, the Europeans have been doing naturalistic homes for their pets also longer than the US population too. I see some really nice setups out of the USA for Ts. In general the best ones I've seen are out of Europe.

However (and it doesn’t bother me), it can be off putting to more “indirect” folks.

SO TRUE!

I know a lot, and I mean a lot of Germans. They are extremely direct, blunt etc, but also they are very patient and polite. They don't interrupt when you speak, even if they think you are wrong. They wait till you are done, THEN tell you how illogical your thoughts were. They are good people once you understand their style.

Personally, my biggest issue is the fact that it seems too many people are more concerned with how information is given to them, than the information given to them itself.

Preaching to the choir brotha!

why should it matter if you don't like the way it said

Because the USA has raised a couple of generations of people to be overly sensitive. You used to get 3 trophies for sports, first-third, now in some places the entire league will get trophies for kids.

We've taught kids, who are now adults 20-35 yr old that they are all special, EVERYONE is special. Guess what, only your parents think that.

The most important part of any informational post is the information, and not the way it's posted or any percieved attutude .

Preaching to the choir brotha!

 

[Arthroverts]

@viper69, ach, no. I have seen it on here, but I can't remember which thread(s). If I find it/them I will post it up.
I do agree with that though. One person in one of the above mentioned spats said that there is a stereotype of Europeans not caring what North Americans say; I can almost see why in some cases. It also helps though when Europeans have access to SOOO many more species for dirt-cheap. They can afford the extra fixings on terrariums with all the money they are saving .
And I'm O.K with that...for now...

Thanks,

Arthroverts

 

[FrDoc]

You are light years ahead of the normal many of us encounter here. Keep it up.



This is interesting, I have never ever noticed this. Any links? What I can offer is Europeans have been doing this longer. They were the ones who first started identifying the gender of species at such small sizes, far before the USA was doing it. They have the experience that's all, especially the Germans.

In other husbandry areas, the Europeans have been doing naturalistic homes for their pets also longer than the US population too. I see some really nice setups out of the USA for Ts. In general the best ones I've seen are out of Europe.




SO TRUE!

I know a lot, and I mean a lot of Germans. They are extremely direct, blunt etc, but also they are very patient and polite. They don't interrupt when you speak, even if they think you are wrong. They wait till you are done, THEN tell you how illogical your thoughts were. They are good people once you understand their style.



Preaching to the choir brotha!



Because the USA has raised a couple of generations of people to be overly sensitive. You used to get 3 trophies for sports, first-third, now in some places the entire league will get trophies for kids.

We've taught kids, who are now adults 20-35 yr old that they are all special, EVERYONE is special. Guess what, only your parents think that.



Preaching to the choir brotha!

Always remember, second place was invented to make losers feel better about themselves.

 

[viper69]

Always remember, second place was invented to make losers feel better about themselves.

HILARIOUS!!

 

[Brachyfan]

Bass guitar!

 

[ThatsUnpossible]

Bass guitar!

I think I know what happened here.

The boyfriend was playing a Buddy Holly song and the T thought it was The Crickets.

 

[Dev1lZ]

When I was a teenager in the 1990’s I owned a B. Smithi. I had repurposed a 20 gallon fish tank and knew nothing about the species aside from it was from Mexico, and you fed it crickets and kept a water dish with a sponge. Sometimes you adapted a snake hide for it to use. Little did I know that that big thing would climb through a tiny hole in the top and end up on my ceiling!

So learning experiences happened like that. Learning as one went along literally happened. No internet sources and no literature. I recently got back into the hobby a few months ago and learned about this board and how many videos from good sources from people like Tom Moran existed. It’s super helpful to have so many wells to draw from for assistance. I have asked a few questions that delve into things like urticating hairs having effects on prey items and that thread went down fast and had a few short answers that basically were that they aren’t used for hunting, etc. I was more interested in how they effect invertebrates. So this one I will chalk up to making my own observations and learning from my own experiences as that interests me. Never did I take any offense to any of the responses, it’s just people could only post what they knew.

 

[Andrea82]

I think I know what happened here.

The boyfriend was playing a Buddy Holly song and the T thought it was The Crickets.

Nah, it gets WAY better (and weirder) than that... Take a look at Festes and Wellenough:
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/im...emale-pokie-ornata-lacking-confidence.297756/

 

[Brachyfan]

That thread sums up everything being said on this post about confrontational people, rejecting advice, anthropomorphizing etc.

I have stated my views on this topic a few times. The internet is full of surly folks that want to argue all the time(not saying arachnoboards). I don't do social media at all. In fact the only place that i post is arachnoboards. Also we are reading text that is devoid of nuance so it can be hard to know what someone's comment actually means. Could be a wind up or sarcasm for example.

I always just read a post for the info given and pay almost no mind to how it was said. That being said i have never been nervous to ask a question here. I simply don't care if I get a snarky response from someone. I am not sensitive to things like that and apprecive for the info!

I do have a different take on the generation gap I would like to share. I am an X and in the last few years I decided to take some online courses. Man have things changed in the years since I was in school last! The courses I took obviously had tests but here is the catch. You could take the same test 10 TIMES!!!! And they would take the highest mark! I would get 90%+ on the first try and 100% on the second. As such I passed my 4 courses with the full 100%. The younger students would have 80%s or something! No excuse not to have 100% if you can take it again. So there is a lot of coddling going on. Felt like the twighlight zone but ill take that gpa! Back in the day you had 1 shot at a test lol

 

[SonsofArachne]

One thing I'd like to say to posters, if someone (like me) makes a joking reply to your post it's just that, a joke, not a personal attack. Unless they start calling you stupid or something try to lighten up and realize there might be a funny side to your post and not get bent out of shape about it.
And to posters making jokes about others posts, keep it light - not insulting, and if the poster is obviously having a serious problem (or thinks they are) maybe save the jokes for another time. Unless it's a really, really good one

Notice I said TRY on both these points. Mistakes will be made, and when they are just don't let it get out of hand. If nothing else works, tell the other person "I'm done with this conversation" and move on.

 

[Brachyfan]

One thing I'd like to say to posters, if someone (like me) makes a joking reply to your post it's just that, a joke, not a personal attack. Unless they start calling you stupid or something try to lighten up and realize there might be a funny side to your post and not get bent out of shape about it.
And to posters making jokes about others posts, keep it light - not insulting, and if the poster is obviously having a serious problem (or thinks they are) maybe save the jokes for another time. Unless it's a really, really good one

Notice I said TRY on both these points. Mistakes will be made, and when they are just don't let it get out of hand. If nothing else works, tell the other person "I'm done with this conversation" and move on.

I fully agree! Been told that i am a hard person to get a read on untill you know me. It probably is worse online too! But that is really good advice in your post.

 

[Tim Benzedrine]

I
When I got my first tarantula it was 1999 and I had to get on a bus and go to the library to get information on how to care for her. Google didn't exist. The dozens of arachnid/invert/spider forums and groups that exist today didn't exist. Facebook and YouTube didn't exist. Invert shows didn't exist..

Pfft! Newbie! I only wish that those were the only things that did not exist when I started! I was into inverts before they even existed!

Let me tell you, a single cell organism collection is about as boring a pet as you can get. What made it worse was microscopes did not exist then either. You think "pet rock" species are boring? Try a pet rock species that is invisible to the naked eye. But hobbyists were grateful for what we had. Or did not have, we were never sure because of that lack of microscopes thing. Once, I spent an hour trying to choose a species in a shop, only to find out I was in the new enclosure section. We had it tough, by cracky!