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Nematode cure

Discussion in 'Tarantula Questions & Discussions' started by Neraz, Mar 3, 2011.

  1. Neraz

    Neraz Arachnopeon

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    Hello from cold Russia, sorry for my bad English ;P

    It seems that we have found nematode cure, but it needs a bit more testing.
    If you have any nematode-sick tarantulas you could try this method on them, anyways it's won't get worse if you try. What can be worse than death, right?)

    First of all you need two drugs (is this right word? :D), first - antibiotic (Cefotaxime - eh.. in powder 1g - put in 10ml of pure H2O for injections) and second is antinematode Pyrantel.

    How to use:
    First of all - clean up the mess (if there it is) near the tarantula mouth with warm water. After this take Cefotaxime 1g and dilute it with 10ml of Injection water, use it on the tarantula mouth and chelicere and where is nematodes, but dont try to push it inside tarantula's mouth. After this one is dry - use Pyrantel with ear-cleaning-stick around tarantula's mouth and chelicerae, but dont put so much.
    Repeat this 3-5 days and remember to clean the cage and waterdish everytime after procedure.

    Anyways this method shows 100% of nematode death, but success is depends on condition of tarantula and progress of infection.

    Well, if you succeed to cure your tarantula, please - let me know. It will really helps.
    If there anything goes wrong let me know also.

    My E-mail: neraz666@hotmail.com
    You can also PM me. Thanks.
     
  2. Najakeeper

    Najakeeper Arachnoangel

    I had to kill one of mine recently. I wish I knew this sooner.

    Hopefully this works.
     
  3. Neraz

    Neraz Arachnopeon

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    There is a problem in the damage that nematodes do to tarantula's stomach and intestines.
    If nematodes live in tarantula for too long they produce too much bacteria that become necrosis of tarantula that will cause anorexia and specific smell, so if it's too late drugs will just kill tarantula faster.
    On 100% healthy tarantula males drugs won't show any damage to them, so they keep feeding and moving normaly. (but testing is still in progress)

    Also there is some tests on roaches, but it seems that they can eat any amount of pyrantel and wont die.
     
  4. jbm150

    jbm150 Arachnoprince

    What kind of success has this treatment seen? How many times has it been used? I'm not sure how easy these particular drugs are to come but it sounds promising.
     
  5. Moltar

    Moltar ArachnoGod

    Verrry interesting Neraz, thank you for sharing this. By the way, your english is fine. FYI an "ear-clening-stick would be referred to as a Q-tip. ;)

    I hope I never have an oppurtunity to try this method but if I do, it will be nice to have something to try. I lost a very pretty Aphonopelma sp "Paysoni" to nematodes... she was such a sweetheart! I wonder if Cefotaxime is available without some sort of prescription here in US, anybody know? The Pyrantel can probably be gotten from a veterinarian.
     
  6. Hobo

    Hobo ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Staff Member

    Pyrantel shouldn't be a problem, but you need a prescription to legally obtain Cefotaxime.
     
  7. Neraz

    Neraz Arachnopeon

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    Thanks :)

    In Russia both things is available at human-pharmacy, also without any prescription... but in Russia nobody cares what you buy. I think there would be no problem to find them in US. (In Russia they can be found in any pharmacy (im not sure that this is correct word - i mean Drugstore :D )

    By this treatment my friend saved his G.rosea red in 8 days, unfortunatly i couldn't save my N.vulpinus because it was too late for her, but good sign is that after tarantula was dead i couldn't find any living or dead nematodes in mouth or in opistosoma.

    Anyway, im currently testing this on some healthy males N.chromatus and P.irminia and female that i guess have nematodes on early phase. They looks fine. As i already told - if your tarantula is infected with nematodes is the only way is to kill it to stop infection, but if you try some cure methods on it it wont get worse definitely.

    ---------- Post added at 10:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 AM ----------

    Also i could explain how this drugs works and what are really happened when your tarantula is infected but im not sure that my english skills are good enough to explain it :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2011
  8. Anastasia

    Anastasia Arachnoprince

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    Post in Russian, we have few Russian/English speaking folks here that will help to translate
    Also guessing on nematodes won't do any good for project to cure them
    You need to have infected specimen to know for sure the drug is working to kill of nematodes and don't kill specimen that is infected
     
  9. Mez

    Mez Arachnoknight

    Just out of interest, can Nematodes be seen in a slide from feces?
     
  10. Neraz

    Neraz Arachnopeon

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    No. They live only in mouth area (well.. it what just theory say)
     
  11. Rue

    Rue Arachnoknight

    ...if the drug/s are not OTC...I'm sure you could get your vet to write you a prescription...shouldn't be that hard to get a hold of what you need.

    Thanks for the post!
     
  12. Mez

    Mez Arachnoknight

    Thanks. I've read about them in the mouth area, i just presumed that they had reached such large numbers they were literally spilling out of an oraface.
    Does anyone know the particular species of Nematode that infests Ts? Is there more than one? Has this research even been done yet?:confused:
    Thanks for your time, this is something i'm very eager to learn about.
     
  13. jbm150

    jbm150 Arachnoprince

    From the sounds of it, you seem to have a lot of tarantulas infected with nematodes. With all respect and I ask out of curiousity, are the test subjects all from your collection or are you getting them from others as well? Is the problem common in Russia?

    This is very interesting and uplifting if there might indeed be a cure for them. I will look into checking my local pharmacies to see how easily it would be to find these drugs, just in case I ever need to quickly.
     
  14. Neraz

    Neraz Arachnopeon

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    Well, i have about 60 diffirent spicies, and on my practice this is my second time. I think this one (N.vulpinus) was infected by my first ill tarantula - P.ornata male.

    This problem is not common in Russia, and most keepers never face it. Only keepers with big collections have this problem. So all my friends with huge collections (500+ spiders and 30+ sp.) never have such problem or lost only one spider. This method was told by one guy how have success in cure his Rosea. He working in University or smth like this on vet.

    Currently im asking all my friends for test subjects. And also testing it on mine.

    Also my spiders is separated from each-other and i dont have any Phoridae spp. flying around.

    Well, i hope i answered your question.


    ----
    Well, now about how drugs works.

    There is a good theory that says: when tarantula get infected with nematodes they start produce big amounts of bacteria (that they feed with) this bacteria slowly eats tarantula's stomach. This explain why you can feel bad smell from spider at the end - they cause necrosis of tarantula stomach and opistosoma, so, by using Cefotaxime we are killing this bacteria, the good idea will be to try internal use of this drug, but it hard to insert it inside mouth, so we used syringe and wash everything around the mouth. Anyway if you try to use it internal - you need a low concentrated fluid.

    Now i explain how Pyrantel works. Pyrantel blocking an Acetylcholine (neurotransmitter) that is required for reproduction and moving of nematodes, so by using it we are paralysing nematodes that will die after some time. The bad side is that Acetylcholine is also used by tarantula, so we dont really know how it used by spiders, but big concentrations of it could possible kill it. So we must avoid big concentrations of it in tarantula's mouth.

    Anyway this two drugs are the most "light" of all and as we think they could not do any serious harm for tarantula.

    The only problem that there could be too late to do something if the infection is progressed to high.


    Wow... That was the most biggset wall of text i have ever wrote on English :?


    Well, there is also Article by Romain Pizzi:
    Pizzi, R., L. Carta & S. George. 2003. Oral nematode infection of tarantulas. The Veterinary Record 152 (22): 695.

    ---------- Post added at 03:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:05 PM ----------

    Feel free to ask if i wrote something wrong )
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 6, 2011
  15. Neraz

    Neraz Arachnopeon

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    Good news, everyone! (c) Hubert J. Farnsworth

    I just finished testing Pyrantel x Cefotaxime on my healty spiders. They're feeling fine and looks good.

    Also my friend from University are finishing his LD50 tests on roaches.
     
  16. Rue

    Rue Arachnoknight

    I'm glad your healthy spiders remained healthy.

    What species of roaches is your friend doing his LD50 trials on?

    Does the Pyrantel only block acetylcholine? Do the nematodes primarily have acetylcholine as their neurotransmitter vs. GABA...also the tarantulas?
     
  17. Neraz

    Neraz Arachnopeon

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    He told me that he's testing it on Gromphadorhina portentosa.

    Pyrantel block only acetylcholine, you can read about it on Wiki. We dont really know for what tarantulas use acetylcholine, but we know - they use it. Anyway pyrantel dont block it forever, only for the time it need to kill nematodes.
    After use Pyrantel it seemes it do the same effect on tarantula - it becomes slowly and not moving much, but this effect fade after few days.
     
  18. Rue

    Rue Arachnoknight

    Thanks! Very interesting. I'm interested in his LD50 results. Don't forget to let us know!
     
  19. Neraz

    Neraz Arachnopeon

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    Hello again.

    Some intersting news from my friend.

    First one - it seems that there is at least two genus of nematodes that infect tarantula. First one - is small, that one, that infected my spiders. Second one, is big - simmilar to this - http://www.giantspiders.com/article12.html

    And for LD50 Tests on roaches.
    Im translating it from russian, so dont beat me. )

    First of all - nobody died. Maximum amount of Pyrantel that Madagaskar Roach can eat is 0.1 ml - after this amount roach stops eating so we cannot register LD50. After eating 0.1 ml of pyrantel roach becomes completely insane and disoriented, they tried to push the head against the wall, or froze for a long time. It seems that is affects not only the moving skills, but the whole nervous system as well. They are still not eating for now. But they now can move normaly and they hiding in the hot corner and wiggling whiskers. If you try to touch it - they trying to hiss but they cant.

    That's all for now. I just want to add, that pyrantel doing same effect on spiders.
     
  20. Rue

    Rue Arachnoknight

    I am confused. :?

    Which LD50 did he test on the roaches? The LD50 is supposed to kill half your test animals.

    Did he test the nematode LD50 or the spider LD50 on the roaches? Or the rat LD50?