Necrosis from spider bite ??

[Raqua]

A friend of mine sent me these pictures by email. I don't know, maybe it was discussed here before, but I wonder what the hell is this ??!!

It doesn't seem to me like spider bite ... From what I have read various bite reports, there was not such a large necrosis and the symptoms were different ....

What do you guys think ?

<PM user for pics - The AB Team>

 

[Raqua]

day 3

day 3 ................

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[Raqua]

day 4

day 4 ................

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[Raqua]

day 6

day 6 ................

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[Raqua]

day 9

day 9 ................

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[Raqua]

day 10

day 10 ................


Seems like fake to me ...

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[Raqua]

...

And btw. sorry for those who might be a bit ofended by this, I know it's disgusting ...

 

[Crotalus]

<Edit> happens. However not very common. And its no fake, a severe bite from Loxosceles reclusa can cause pretty bad necrosis, as seen here.

/Lelle

 

[Heartfang]

Wow. Ouch. No, can't idenify the spider, but I have heard of skin almost like decomposing and falling off from the bite of a umm... what's it called... oh yes... Brown Recluse. This happened to your friend?

 

[Heartfang]

Crotalus beat me to it. LOL

 

[Raqua]

Wow. Ouch. No, can't idenify the spider, but I have heard of skin almost like decomposing and falling off from the bite of a umm... what's it called... oh yes... Brown Recluse. This happened to your friend?

No it didn't happen to him, he just got this by email and asked me about it ... That's pretty nasty spider then .... That pic was labelleb brown_re, so it is probably that. Thanks for your response guys, I'm going to read something about this little beast ....

 

[danread]

I think the photos are real, although the time scale you posted for them is probably not. More likely that this reaction happend over a space of weeks, not days. The problem is, you cannot say for sure that it was caused by a spider bite, it couold just as easily be an infected wound that has gotten out of hand (no pun intended ) and hasnt responded to treatment.

Cheers,

 

[Crotalus]

Im not so sure it has to be a time span over a few weeks, the cytotoxic effect scale that down quite dramatically.

/Lelle

 

[MysticKigh]

definitely looks like 'spider bite necrosis'... see it at the hospital all the time (scary huh?) You would think people would go to the Dr before it get's so bad... it takes weeks... Day 3... hurts like hell... swells... GO to the DOC!

 

[Elizabeth]

I thought this was the old thread resurrected!

Someone in the old thread provided this nice link to Snopes, wherein they specifically discuss the validity of these pics as Brown Recluse bite pics:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/bugs/brownrecluse.asp


And for those who don't go to the link, briefly, the status of these pics is "undetermined" (might be real, might not be) and here's a nice little paragraph from the snopes site:

"If these photographs truly depict the effects of a brown recluse spider bite, they represent a very rare occurrence. Quite possibly they are genuine photographs of some completely different medical ailment (unrelated to spider bites) with similar physical symptoms (such as pyoderma gangrenosum or necrotizing fasciitis), and someone who came across the pictures outside of their original context mistakenly assumed them to depict the effects of a brown recluse spider bite."

 

[Raan_Jodus]

well I certainly know little about spiders, but I thought i saw at one time that the L. Reclusa's fangs were very small, and have a hard time getting through skin. Now, that is near a knuckle, and unless he has soft hands, thats usually very thick skin compared to most other places on the body.

Just an observation, but ya, if something hurts for a few days, go see a damn doctor. Theres no sane reason to watch your hand fall apart for any reason like that.

 

[danread]

Im not so sure it has to be a time span over a few weeks, the cytotoxic effect scale that down quite dramatically.

/Lelle

Hi Lelle,

I agree that there are some cytotoxins that can cause that effect, but i doubt there are any spiders that can cause that severe an effect in a human. The quantity of venom injected by even the largest true spider has to be tiny compared to what some snakes with cytotoxic venoms can produce. To me it seems much more likely that it is a bacterial infection that has causes this. Whether a spider bite allowed the infection to start is a moot point if it wasnt the venom that actually caused the necrosis.

Cheers,

 

[Adnan]

Brown Recluse Spider Bite Site: Link

Some bad cases: Link 1, Link 2, Link 3

Bite Site Search Page: Link

 

[Raqua]

To me it seems much more likely that it is a bacterial infection that has causes this. Whether a spider bite allowed the infection to start is a moot point if it wasnt the venom that actually caused the necrosis.
Cheers,

That is what I thought at first - spider introduced bacteria infection ... But at that time I wasn't familiar with spider necroticism.

 

[Crotalus]

Hi Lelle,

I agree that there are some cytotoxins that can cause that effect, but i doubt there are any spiders that can cause that severe an effect in a human. The quantity of venom injected by even the largest true spider has to be tiny compared to what some snakes with cytotoxic venoms can produce. To me it seems much more likely that it is a bacterial infection that has causes this. Whether a spider bite allowed the infection to start is a moot point if it wasnt the venom that actually caused the necrosis.

Cheers,

Thats speculative, depends on the toxicity of the venom and the cytotoxic effect it has. If strong enought I dont think you need the massive dose a snake bite delivers. Fact remains, there are people that suffer these effect after a Loxosceles bite.

/Lelle