Mycosis in Tarantulas?

Dave Jay

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I apologise if this was covered but I can't find the information.
Is mycosis a large concern as it is with other commonly kept inverts?
Looking at people's set ups it's already apparent to me that it's not generally as much of a concern as it is with some scorpions. The lack of threads on the subject confirms it too,but do tarantula keepers worry about it?
The second part of this question is whether arid species suffer from being kept long term in a high humidity "burrow type" environment rather than say a false bottom set up with ventilation where the top of the substrate is relatively dry but the burrow is the humidity of (mostly) the spiders choosing?
 

boina

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I've never seen or even heard of any tarantula with mycosis. If it ever happens it's incredibly rare. A healthy tarantula doesn't get a fungal infection - ever.

Why would you want to keep an arid species in a moist burrow?? That doesn't make sense. And yes it is harmful - the moist substrate allows bacteria to grow than an arid tarantula is not equipped to deal with. Too much moisture can kill any tarantula.
 

Dave Jay

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I've never seen or even heard of any tarantula with mycosis. If it ever happens it's incredibly rare. A healthy tarantula doesn't get a fungal infection - ever.

Why would you want to keep an arid species in a moist burrow?? That doesn't make sense. And yes it is harmful - the moist substrate allows bacteria to grow than an arid tarantula is not equipped to deal with. Too much moisture can kill any tarantula.
My question is why?
I've never seen or even heard of any tarantula with mycosis. If it ever happens it's incredibly rare. A healthy tarantula doesn't get a fungal infection - ever.

Why would you want to keep an arid species in a moist burrow?? That doesn't make sense. And yes it is harmful - the moist substrate allows bacteria to grow than an arid tarantula is not equipped to deal with. Too much moisture can kill any tarantula.
I didn't want to quote all that, but you are answering directly to my question. I asked about humidity, your term was moisture, but my question in part was are arid species suffering from having humid conditions 24/7?
 

Dave Jay

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Oh, maybe it was the false bottom bit that put you off.
And of course most of you aren't keeping arid obligate borrowers. I keep all my critters with a false bottom set up, from lychas sp scorpions to Blue tongue lizards. Just recently, even my pitcher plants, and it's working well as a swamp
. No rotting surface , but any animal or plant knows that if you dig itll get more moist, and mostly cooler,but it goes both ways, some animals burrow because its warner,but the point is that the animal gets to choose.
 

Dave Jay

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Bear in mind that I am researching, (btw, that's the right bear; have i mentioned. ....)
 

boina

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I asked about humidity, your term was moisture, but my question in part was are arid species suffering from having humid conditions 24/7?
I answered that question. You are not making any sense.
 

chanda

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I asked about humidity, your term was moisture, but my question in part was are arid species suffering from having humid conditions 24/7?
I believe you are getting hung up on semantics. *Would* arid species suffer from being kept in constantly humid (or moist) conditions? Yes, they would. *Are* they suffering from being kept in those conditions? No - because they are *not* kept like that (or shouldn't be). They are kept on dry substrate with a water dish to provide drinking water and adequate humidity/moisture. Fungal growth is not an issue, as long as you don't leave dead feeders or boluses in the water dish.
 

darkness975

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If you are referring to the mycosis issues that seem to plague arid scorpion species I will just say it's not a much spoken of issue with tarantulas like it is with scorpions.

Honestly , I wish someone would do more research into the scorpion mycosis issues. I am willing to believe something causes the development that may be able to be corrected. I don't know a whole lot of AZ residents, but I'd be curious to ask them how many of the wild Hadrurus spp. And others they find in the wild have mycosis issues or if it is a predominantly captive issue.

Kind of reminds me of the "keeping Avic spp. In moist stuffy cages when they're supposed to be dryer and have airflow" issue. Poor care sheets are largely to blame.
 

Andrea82

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Actually, quite a lot of us keep arid obligate burrowers. Augacephalus, P.muticus, Ceratogyrus, all species preferring dry environment.

And yes, for some arid species, too much moisture is detrimental. I've actually seen posts on the Dutch fora about Chromatopelma cyaneopubescens (GBB) getting sick and die because they were kept too humid.

B.hamorii, G.rosea will not set foot on moist substrate, preferring to stay on the walls and decorations because they're uncomfortable. I want to keep species in the surroundings THEY prefer, not contrive difficult solutions to problems that aren't there.
Simple is better.
 

Nightstalker47

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I've never seen or even heard of any tarantula with mycosis. If it ever happens it's incredibly rare. A healthy tarantula doesn't get a fungal infection - ever.

Why would you want to keep an arid species in a moist burrow?? That doesn't make sense. And yes it is harmful - the moist substrate allows bacteria to grow than an arid tarantula is not equipped to deal with. Too much moisture can kill any tarantula.
An arid species would do fine with some moisture so long as the ventilation is good.

Keep in mind that most species from xeric environments will burrow down to where there is far more moisture in the soil. They aren't always on perpetually dry sub.

Stuffy stagnant air is the true killer IMO.
 

boina

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An arid species would do fine with some moisture so long as the ventilation is good.

Keep in mind that most species from xeric environments will burrow down to where there is far more moisture in the soil. They aren't always on perpetually dry sub.

Stuffy stagnant air is the true killer IMO.
Tell that to all the GBBs who died in moist environments... or the first D. diamantinensis imported to Germany... or several Harpactirinae who will often not do well in moist substrate... or... whatever.

Are you absolutely sure that only lack of ventilation is to blame for that?

"where there is far more moisture in the soil"

A sandy soil with remnants of moisture is a far cry from moist cocofiber or top soil supporting very different soil micro-organisms.
 

Nightstalker47

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Tell that to all the GBBs who died in moist environments... or the first D. diamantinensis imported to Germany... or several Harpactirinae who will often not do well in moist substrate... or... whatever.

Are you absolutely sure that only lack of ventilation is to blame for that?

"where there is far more moisture in the soil"

A sandy soil with remnants of moisture is a far cry from moist cocofiber or top soil supporting very different soil micro-organisms.
Your missing the point. If you have too much moisture in low vent enclosures then you will create that kind of stuffy environment. If the vent is great...the air won't stagnate.

As for your next point. Let me get this straight, you believe the micro-organsims and bacteria present in top soil and coco fiber(when moist) are responsible for these deaths? May I ask how you jumped to that conclusion, any substantiated evidence?

I have accidentally over-watered the sub in some of my arid species enclosures in the past. Nothing bad ever came of it, the sub dried out within a few days and the spider was fine. Had the ventilation been restricted...then the situation would have been all the more perilous.
 

boina

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Your missing the point. If you have too much moisture in low vent enclosures then you will create that kind of stuffy environment. If the vent is great...the air won't stagnate.

As for your next point. Let me get this straight, you believe the micro-organsims and bacteria present in top soil and coco fiber(when moist) are responsible for these deaths? May I ask how you jumped to that conclusion, any substantiated evidence?

I have accidentally over-watered the sub in some of my arid species enclosures in the past. Nothing bad ever came of it, the sub dried out within a few days and the spider was fine. Had the ventilation been restricted...then the situation would have been all the more perilous.
Ok - so you insist it's only the ventilation - and all the GBBs died from lack of ventilation and not from excess moisture - and I disagree. No point discussing it further since neither one of us has conclusive evidence. Anecdotes of spiders surviving moist conditions for a while certainly does not constitute evidence at all. Even some Avics and GBBs did survive in moist and stuffy conditions. - Just this: Burrows are by definition never well ventilated. An arid species that is living in a moist burrow will always live in a moist and stuffy environment.

No, I don't 'believe' microorganisms do anything. I know it is a possibility. There are hundreds of examples what can happen when any organism is confronted with pathogens or potential pathogens it isn't adapted to. I'm not saying that's what it is, I'm saying that's what it could be. Can you come up with any other reason why tarantulas die in moist, stuffy enclosures? What do they die of?

And why is this discussion necessary in the first place? Why would anyone in his/her right mind put an arid species in a moist enclosure? Somehow I don't believe you seriously saying it's fine as long as there's enough ventilation.
 

Nightstalker47

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Ok - so you insist it's only the ventilation - and all the GBBs died from lack of ventilation and not from excess moisture - and I disagree.
You completely misunderstood my post, and I never said that about GBBs.

The excess moisture is what actually triggers the stuffiness in low vent enclosures. It is definitely part of the problem, but the stagnant air is what kills the spider over time, they slowly go downhill and die.
Why would anyone in his/her right mind put an arid species in a moist enclosure? Somehow I don't believe you seriously saying it's fine as long as there's enough ventilation.
Not what I said at all. Never condoned keeping arid species moist, I said they can handle some moisture if their enclosures are well ventilated lol. Reread my posts.
An arid species would do fine with some moisture so long as the ventilation is good.
Stuffy stagnant air is the true killer IMO.
 

boina

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You completely misunderstood my post, and I never said that about GBBs.

The excess moisture is what actually triggers the stuffiness in low vent enclosures. It is definitely part of the problem, but the stagnant air is what kills the spider over time, they slowly go downhill and die.

Not what I said at all. Never condoned keeping arid species moist, I said they can handle some moisture if their enclosures are well ventilated lol. Reread my posts.
You know what? I give up. Every time I draw logical conclusions from your posts you go: I didn't say that!

Yes, you did. It was the logical conclusion from what you said. And the logical conclusion from what you are saying now is still:

A GBB would do fine in a moist enclosure as long as it's well ventilated - and I still disagree.

Yes, I agree, low ventilation makes the problem worse, but the problem starts with excess moisture alone. And again: what do you imagine the spiders actually die of in a low vent enclosure that isn't there in a well ventilated, but moist, enclosure? Stagnant air is not a disease. There must be something that's brought out by stagnant air. Why don't spiders die in dry, stagnant air? What if the spider is in a moist burrow that isn't well ventilated because it's a burrow, as that was the original question, btw.?
 

Nightstalker47

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You know what? I give up. Every time I draw logical conclusions from your posts you go: I didn't say that!
Because I didn't, your perception doens't mirror my thoughts at all...no matter what conclusions you jump to. I never made any of those claims.
And again: what do you imagine the spiders actually die of in a low vent enclosure that isn't there in a well ventilated, but moist, enclosure?
If you haven't figured that out, it proves you aren't paying attention... I won't continue to repeat myself. You really need to go over my posts.
 

boina

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If you haven't figured that out, it proves you aren't paying attention.
@Nightstalker47 said:
An arid species would do fine with some moisture so long as the ventilation is good.
Stuffy stagnant air is the true killer IMO.

Let me repeat myself for the third time (yes, I keep repeating myself, too): Stagnant, stuffy, humid air is not a disease. It may lead to disease, but it isn't a disease. A tarantula can die of infection, lung problems, whatever, but not of "stuffy air". It's part of the environment, but not a disease. What disease do you think stuffy air will cause? You haven't answered that anywhere.

Could you do me a favor and try to understand what I'm saying here? Because I've the very strong impression that you are the one who isn't getting it.

This is my last try. I think this whole discussion is getting ridiculous.
 
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Nightstalker47

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Stagnant, stuffy, humid air is not a disease. It may lead to disease, but it isn't a disease.
I never claimed it was...yet another assumption on your part.

I'm starting to understand why the discussion went this way. You assume far too much.
 

boina

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I never claimed it was...yet another assumption on your part.

I'm starting to understand why the discussion went this way. You assume far too much.
Or maybe you explain too little?

Can we just virtually shake hands and agree to disagree? I'm kind of tired of this.
 
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