More Poecilotheria Regulations May Be Coming...

[CyclingSam]

I have not had time to thoroughly look at these proposals yet, but I plan to when I get a bit of time. What I do understand is that there are new regulations that have been proposed, which effect polkies, and there is a public comment period welcoming public comments until Nov 30th. Below is a link containing the summary. It contains other relevant links within.

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...rnational-trade-in-endangered-species-of-wild

Here are the extended details:

https://www.fws.gov/international/p...ral-register-notice-proposed-us-positions.pdf

 

[Greasylake]

It says the Poecilotheria are proposed to be added to appendix 2, which the CITES website describes as:

"Appendix II includes species not necessarily threatened with extinction, but in which trade must be controlled in order to avoid utilization incompatible with their survival."​

So if I understand this right, export of the pokies would be banned, but interstate trade would still be allowed as they would not be added to the endangered species list.

 

[Venom1080]

"In addition, Poecilotheria species are reported to have low reproductive rates, short life spans, and high mortality rates prior to maturity, making them particularly vulnerable to commercial exploitation."

must be great knowing such educated people are banning your animals, Americans.

 

[Nightstalker47]

"In addition, Poecilotheria species are reported to have low reproductive rates, short life spans, and high mortality rates prior to maturity, making them particularly vulnerable to commercial exploitation."

They must be referring to wild Poecilotheria, wouldn't make any sense if not.

It needs to be brought to their attention that this genus is pretty much never exported anymore...all the poecs in the hobby are CB anyway. If they truly want to make a difference for this genus in the wild, they need to protect their habitat...this kind of regulation does nothing for these spiders. Only affects the hobbyists that are keeping and breeding CB stock.

 

[Venom1080]

They must be referring to wild Poecilotheria, wouldn't make any sense if not.

It needs to be brought to their attention that this genus is pretty much never exported anymore...all the poecs in the hobby are CB anyway. If they truly want to make a difference for this genus in the wild, they need to protect their habitat...this kind of regulation does nothing for these spiders. Only affects the hobbyists that are keeping and breeding CB stock.

Compared to captivity, virtually every animal could be described in the same way. Im pretty sure they're incorrectly referring to the animals as a whole.

 

[viper69]

The entire genus will be banned sooner or later.

 

[Nightstalker47]

Compared to captivity, virtually every animal could be described in the same way. Im pretty sure they're incorrectly referring to the animals as a whole.

I don't think they are that misinformed.

"In addition, Poecilotheria species are reported to have low reproductive rates, short life spans, and high mortality rates prior to maturity, making them particularly vulnerable to commercial exploitation."

Just deconstructing the quote.

In the wild mortality rates would be very high, prior to maturity...and I doubt they are concerned about the vulnerability of our CB spiders. I can recall them saying that many of the Poecilotheria in the hobby are mutts, and that they wouldn't entertain the idea of ever releasing any back into the wild.

 

[Greasylake]

I don't think they are that misinformed.

You overestimate American politicians.

 

[Nightstalker47]

You overestimate American politicians.

Touche my man. "It was not always a given that the United-States and America would have a close relationship."-George W. Bush

*Politicians as a whole.

We have some dummies here too, they just don't get as much attention.

 

[Liquifin]

Banned pokies?? Only in America..... yep, it had to be where I live. But this is such hypocrisy to America. We destroy land, pollute, and deforest a lot of our areas, Yet our government wants to protect another country's environment???? Our country, the United States, sure likes to help other country environments but not our own (Mal-practice IMO). Seriously, WHO'S THIS DUMB IN OUR GOVERNMENT?!?!?!? I would legit like to ask the three branches of government for reviewing such a hypocrisy. I would straight-up veto the "majority" of the idea. And considered it unconstitutional to our nation, because what can we do in Sri Lanka??? It's not even our country and they have the right to do whatever with their land not the United States.

 

[Olan]

CITES listing is fine. That’s what they should have done with the Sri Lankan pokies. The hobby goes on, like with the Brachys.

 

[SonsofArachne]

CITES listing is fine. That’s what they should have done with the Sri Lankan pokies. The hobby goes on, like with the Brachys.

Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but maybe they realize the mistake they made with the Sri Lankan pokies and are only going with CITIES for the rest. I wonder if down listing the Sri Lankan pokies to CITIES is possible in the future.

 

[Olan]

Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but maybe they realize the mistake they made with the Sri Lankan pokies and are only going with CITIES for the rest. I wonder if down listing the Sri Lankan pokies to CITIES is possible in the future.

That would be awesome, but it’s hard to get species off the ESA unless wild populations rebound. I wouldn’t hold my breath

 

[SonsofArachne]

I wouldn’t hold my breath

Yeah, wishful thinking, I know.

 

[pocock1899]

CITES App. II listings are not a "ban". It just means you need an export permit before you can ship them internationally. Brachypelma genus has been listed for almost 25yrs. Do you see any problems acquiring a B. hamorii or B. albopilosum?
This means practically nothing for 99% of the hobbyists out there. If you import from other countries it means they have to get an export permit. If you export to other countries, it means you have to get one. They've been regulating many, many forms of wildlife like this for years.
The Endangered Species Act (ESA) and the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) are completely different sets of laws and regulations. ESA is a law, and CITES is an international treaty. Congress passed the ESA, and over 175 countries ratified CITES. The only real common denominator in the US is that USFWS is tasked with enforcing both of them.
It might do some of you some good to read up on the laws and regulations that affect your hobby. They can be complicated, but if you're serious about the hobby, you probably ought to be at least curious as to how it is regulated. The Endangered Species Act and CITES are two good ones to start with. Especially if you are interested in keeping some of the species that are currently listed, ...or that might be.

 

[Mojo288]

Thank god i already got the ones i need....

 

[ErinM31]

"In addition, Poecilotheria species are reported to have low reproductive rates, short life spans, and high mortality rates prior to maturity, making them particularly vulnerable to commercial exploitation."

must be great knowing such educated people are banning your animals, Americans.

What? We have educated politicians? Since when?

The entire genus will be banned sooner or later.

What makes you say that? And do you mean banned as in illegal even to own?

 

[Chris LXXIX]

And do you mean banned as in illegal even to own?

1) The 'Frown' Smilies is incredibly lovely, and reminds 'Butters' (South Park)

2) Technically if a certain thing (not necessarily now a spider) is banned in certain nations/areas/etc, even the mere home possession of that 'thing' would be illegal, otherwise, well... which kind of ban is? A 'limitation' and a 'ban' are different things

3) Don't be scared of "spiders ban". I'm Italian, we really had an arachnid ban, there's more spiders today than before, and new keepers

 

[MissouriArachnophile]

Roll back EPA standards no big deal, limit ownership of foreign spiders Super Important.

 

[ErinM31]

1) The 'Frown' Smilies is incredibly lovely, and reminds 'Butters' (South Park)

2) Technically if a certain thing (not necessarily now a spider) is banned in certain nations/areas/etc, even the mere home possession of that 'thing' would be illegal, otherwise, well... which kind of ban is? A 'limitation' and a 'ban' are different things

3) Don't be scared of "spiders ban". I'm Italian, we really had an arachnid ban, there's more spiders today than before, and new keepers

“When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.”

I wanted to clarify that @viper69 really meant the T’s themselves would likely be banned, not just instances of selling them. It seems a large step from what was already enacted last year, not that means it couldn’t happen. I think the decision of what sort of laws to pass must involve throwing darts or something...

I do think about expatriating — and not just because of spiders, lol, although I do love them! I was seriously considering working abroad for a time at least, but decided against it mainly for not wanting to put my animals through any hardship, and then I had much less, but my kitties are my babies.

Lest I ramble too far off topic, I should more relevantly inquire what other countries laws are like regarding inverts and tarantulas in particular? I know Australia permits nothing, but come to think of it, I have no idea about the laws in most countries...