Millipede Questions

PangolinPrince

Arachnopeon
Joined
May 24, 2018
Messages
7
My apologies if this is too long of a read!
From a (hopefully) soon-to-be first time pet owner! I have always loved animals (especially birds) and been very curious about insects... My favorite bugs being roly polies, cicadas, and moths/butterflies... Recently I have done some research on pet insects and millipedes came up! I continued my research and they seem to be a good fit for me and what I can provide. I'm looking to get one this summer if I get permission. I'm not an adult so I may not have access to certain materials and I have a limited budget, but in my area there is a lot of fallen twigs and branches and most of the local trees are oaks (pointy leaf kind, I guess red oaks). I plan on getting one Narceus americanus, maybe more if things go well. I would absolutely love to get my hands on A. gigas at some point! I have a LOT of questions and possibly more to come, if anyone could help me answer all or most of these I would be very grateful! Thank you.

Before I get into the questions, here are my plans for a habitat: I shall use a plastic container with a lid, preferably around a foot or slightly more in length, 8 inches or slightly more in width, and around a foot in height. A bit larger will do as well. Standard plastic container.
Probably something of this variety, since I like the latches. I plan on drilling holes in the lid for ventilation, but I'm aware that I can't put too many due to risk of dehydration. But that leads into my first question...
  1. I'm worried about small spiders, ants, or flies getting into the container through the air holes since we seem to have an issue with them and I think they might be attracted if I leave food in the container. Would it work to tape coffee filter over the air holes? I think this is my best option. If the millipede gets up and manages to chew them I'll try a different material.
  2. Do all materials (wood, dirt, leaves, moss?) that go into the container need to be frozen and baked? Is just freezing enough? Perhaps just washing/drying/freezing? I am not so keen on using the oven if I can avoid it.
  3. How long do you bake the materials, and what temperature? How do you keep them from being on fire?
  4. If exposure to unclean materials is dangerous, does this mean it is bad to let the millipede wander for a bit outside?
  5. How often must substrate and tank materials be changed? I read that leaving most substrate and changing the top layer every... month or so, will do fine.
  6. How often must food be put in? I suppose the plant material and substrate in the tank serves as food so that's basically the previous question... but....
  7. How often can special foods be given? (fruits and vegetables, maybe bits of table food)
  8. Sources of protein besides snake skins or feeder insects? All I have readily available is eggshells but if that's not enough what should I get? same question for sources of calcium... what can I use? Will get reptile vitamin/calcium supplement if I can't come up with anything
  9. Transporting a millipede? How often can they be moved without causing them too much stress? I go between two houses a lot so if I made two different tanks/containers and then a smaller carrier container, would that work? Is every 2 weeks, maybe monthly, okay?
  10. Does water for the millipede need to be distilled or is plain tap water fine? I will probably just use tap water, since the tap water in our area is pretty okay in quality. (I drink it sometimes and I'm fine)
  11. Temperature? House is usually in the 60s or 70s, but is it dangerous for the millipede if it goes into the 50s or 80s?
  12. Can millipedes eat fruits/vegetables that are starting to get moldy? I could cut off the moldy part. Although I think I would just feed it very very ripe produce. Not rotten.
  13. What fruits/vegetables are dangerous for millipedes? Are citrus too acidic? Are kiwis safe? Avocados? Berries like blackberries, blueberries, raspberries? Strawberries, maybe?
  14. For water, I was thinking of just making a very shallow pond type thing in the corner of the habitat, lining the bottom with gravel. This would be ok, right?
  15. What are some small plants that could be kept in the container? I was thinking ferns of some sort but the small kind for terrariums i saw on amazon didn't have the best reviews. Any other sources to buy small ferns? I would like for the habitat to have a fair amount of attractive green-ness, which I could probably achieve with well-placed mosses.
  16. How often can the millipede be handled comfortably? I don't want to dry it out or cause it too much stress.
  17. Should I keep a small thermometer on/near the container? Not as important a question just an idea really.
If I experience success in not only obtaining a millipede but caring for it, I will look into getting a glass tank to replace the plastic container, but for now, this is my best option.
Thank you to anyone who reads this!!
 

Arthroverts

Arachnoking
Joined
Jul 11, 2016
Messages
2,462
First off, your cage would be too large if you want to reasonably see your millipede more than once a month, about half those dimensions or a little smaller would be fine.
1.
I have never used coffee filter, but it would probably work, although the millipede might chew through. Ants are the only thing you'd have to seriously worry about, as flies are typically harmless and spiders would probably be killed if they attacked the millipede due to its secretions.
2., 3.
Freezing doesn't kill everything, so baking is the way to go. Temperatures in between 150F-200F does the trick for all pests. Washing it off first is what I do to, and then I bake whatever it is. The microwave will also work, but the time must be below 20 seconds, and letting it cool and then doing it again repeatedly is probably the best idea.
4., .16
You absolutely do NOT want to let the millipede wander, outside it will escape or get eaten, inside it will find a dark place where you can't find it and desiccate. Too many people lose their millipedes when they escape and dry out. Millipedes can be handled for several minutes comfortably from my experience, just so long as there isn't a lot of jolting and moving, and you're very careful to hold it close to a soft surface in case it falls.
.5
When the substrate has been completely turned to frass, new food substrate can be added to the top of the old for months, sometimes years. Eventually, especially if you have many millipedes, all the substrate will need to be changed out though.
.6, .7
Every week you can put in supplemental foods, although be careful as it will cause mite explosions if left in too long. Once a month might be better for the millipede, as rotting leaves and wood should make up the bulk of the diet.
.8
No need for calcium additives or protein additives, they will do fine with fruits and vegetables, from my experience, although if you want, fish food or other pet food will work as an occasional source of protein, although it is not necessary.
.9
I'd suggest getting a smaller permanent cage, and just taking that with you. Just so long as there isn't a lot of jolting, it should be fine.
.10
I would highly suggest purified water, or leaving the tap water sit over night to rid it of chlorine, as this and other chemicals and metals are deadly for millipedes. Bottled water will also work.
.11
60s-70s should be fine for N. americanus, although temperatures over 78F for a long time can be deadly. In the wild they probably encounter temperatures in the 50s, so it should be O.K for short periods of time.
.12, .13
Yes, just cut off the moldy part and remove it shortly thereafter so it doesn't mold itself. Citrus and avocados should be fine, they will eat the leftover meat of avocado skins, although I don't know about kiwi or the berries, but they should be O.K as well.
.14
Just pour some water into a corner, the millipede will drink from it, a water dish or pond is just buried soon after, and its a pain to clean out the gravel and the dish.
.15
I would suggest waiting on live plants until you have more experience, as it is tricky to work out light placement, and the plant might be uprooted in too small a terrarium. Plus, the millipede will hide until after dark all the time because of the light. Some other members might be able to weigh in on this better then I can, though.
.17
A thermometer is not necessary, as long as the temperatures don't stray out of 60F-75F too often.

Hope this helps, I would suggest getting Orin McMonigles book on keeping millipedes, either the handbook or the larger one.
Anyway, Good Luck!

Arthroverts
 

PangolinPrince

Arachnopeon
Joined
May 24, 2018
Messages
7

Sadie11

Arachnosquire
Joined
Oct 5, 2017
Messages
54
Welcome to the boards! I keep all of my millipedes in plastic tubs with the lid latches. I would avoid the glass tank/terrariums because the screen lids give too much ventilation. You could cover most of the screen with plastic wrap to help with this, but the plastic tubs really do work better. Make sure the holes you drill are not too big. An ant should be able to fit through, but that’s about all. I would assume that a coffee filter would work fine, but a very fine mesh material might be better. You won’t find your pet on the lid very often. Do not ever use tap water unless you have let it sit for at least 24 hours first. I usually use bottled water. I feed mine supplemental food once or twice a week, just as a treat. They don’t necessarily need it. Mine love oranges, bananas, sweet corn, avocado, sweet potatoes, carrots, etc. For protein, I use fish food flakes or crushed dog food. I mix a calcium supplement in with my substrate and a little bit of bird grit. You can sprinkle crushed up eggshells across the top, just make sure to bake them first. Cuttlebone is also good. If you’re only going to have one, a container a little bigger than a shoebox would be fine. Your substrate needs to be at least as deep as your pet is long. I like to have at least 4-5” of space between the substrate and top of the container. Sphagnum moss will help with humidity in the tank, and they like to hide under it. A very shallow water dish will also help. Make sure your substrate stays damp (not wet) all the way through. I mist my substrate every couple of days, trying to avoid misting the pedes themselves. Make sure it has plenty of places to hide. Cork bark works great. I soak my leaves in water overnight, let them dry, cover them with aluminum foil and bake at 150* for an hour or two. I also bake my wood the same way before I use it. I don’t soak the wood first. I wouldn’t mess with a thermometer. They’re worthless really. I try to keep mine in the mid to upper 70’s. I would never take mine outside and set it down. There are just too many unknowns. As said above, make sure when you handle your pet that you’re keeping it over and close to a soft surface. A short fall can easily kill them. If it burrows into the substrate, never dig it out. Even if you haven’t seen it for weeks. It is most likely molting.

Have you considered getting a C. spinigerus instead of a Narceus? They stay on top and in the open most of the time. They also don’t mind being held. My Narceus are a little more nervous when it comes to handling, and stay under a little more.
 

Arthroverts

Arachnoking
Joined
Jul 11, 2016
Messages
2,462
Better container options in regard to size? I'm not sure how much smaller I can find.
I want to get one at least 6 inches in height if I put around 3 or 4 inches of substrate. I think around 10 quarts should do good for capacity...? These are 10/11 quarts.
https://www.target.com/p/sterilite-deep-clip-box-clear-with-jade-latches/-/A-13794803
https://www.target.com/p/plastic-st...s/-/A-53468490?preselect=75000474#lnk=sametab
They will both work, but you might not see the millipede for some time. I might suggest getting more if you are going to have a cage that large. As stated above, a shoebox is probably the best fit. I might suggest going to Bugs in Cyberspace and getting the US millipede medley, and maybe getting a N. americanus too, that way, you will have a lot more activity going on at night, and usually one will be on the surface at any given time. However, Chicobolus spinigerus and Anadenobolus monillicornis (Bumblebee millipede) require temperatures in between 72F-78F to thrive.

Arthroverts
 

PangolinPrince

Arachnopeon
Joined
May 24, 2018
Messages
7
So, it seems I have two options here. Maybe two and a half.
1. Smaller container, although I can't seem to find any online that have the dimensions I want. I was hoping for one around 8 inches in length, 8 in height, maybe even 8 in width? I'd like to have one not any lower than 6 inches in height since I want to put some kind of branches perhaps. I need to account for 4 inches of substrate, so...
I found this: https://www.containerstore.com/s/cl...age/our-tall-shoe-box/123d?productId=11000728 which is around 13 by 7 by 8, which is the closest thing I've found to what I want thus far. Smaller in length/width than the other two previously mentioned containers, which is good...
2. Getting multiple millipedes. But what species would work best in the 60s-70s range, occasionally dropping to 50 or rising to 80? And what would get along with N. Americanus?
If C. spinigerus and A. monillicornis need temperatures in that specific range I don't know how well I'd be able to provide that.

What are the requirements for N. gordanus and/or Scarlet millipede? How do they differ from N. Americanus in terms of needs? Can they withstand that temperature range?

I think I will end up getting this "tall shoebox" but I don't know what other guests to fill it with.
 

Arthroverts

Arachnoking
Joined
Jul 11, 2016
Messages
2,462
N. gordanus, N. americanus, and N. annularis all have pretty much the same care and can all deal with that temperature range. All Narceus are spirobolids, meaning they require quality rotting wood in quantity, and they will also munch on rotting leafs in great numbers. Temperature range 60F-78F, although occasional deviations are not harmful. Substrate as deep as the millipedes with no visible humidity gradients, i.e, substrate moist all through the cage. Scarlets (Trigoniulus corallinus) require higher temperatures, like C. spinigerus and A. monillicornis. Tylobolus, Hiltonius, and a few other Northwest and Northern species are all other candidates for that temperature range, although they may be sensitive to higher temperatures. Have you considered a multiple species tank? Isopods, land snails and slugs, cave crickets, walking sticks that don't mind high humidity, and pincher bugs that don't reproduce rapidly all will work to fill the extra space, along with some other critters. Every kind of millipede will also get along with every other millipede, whether spirostreptids, spirobolids, sphaerotheriids, or polydesmids, or any other kind of millipede.

That container looks good, all though in the end, it is your call on what you want and what you think will work best for your situation.

Good Luck!
 

PangolinPrince

Arachnopeon
Joined
May 24, 2018
Messages
7
Thank you for all the help thus far!

Now to be concerned over prices... Yay!

Looks like I'll be ordering an N. Americanus from bugsincyberspace, but as far as N. Gordanus goes, that site seems to be out of stock... Second options are insectsales.com or Ken the Bug Guy. Not sure which is more reliable...
Shipping to my location for Ken the Bug Guy comes out to $29 for 2 day shipping and $49 for overnight, which I feel is quite a bit... On the other hand, shipping from insectsales is around $9. They are probably just based closer to my area, but overall, prices from insectsales are less than the others... The concern here is, would I be sacrificing quality to go the cheaper route? Are they any less reliable?


ON SECOND THOUGHT, I just checked shipping for bugsincyberspace for N. Americanus and it's $27 live guarantee and $12 without. Definitely better than Ken the bug guy's shipping price but insectsales is still considerably cheaper.

The totals:
bugsincyberspace N. americanus (live guarantee): $51
insectsales N. americanus: ~$22
insectsales N. gordanus: ~$26
Ken the bug guy N. gordanus (live guarantee/overnight): $59
I'll be buying substrate from bugsincyberspace, at least... so thats $15 or $17, depending on if I get the one with... er. wood crumbs? Which I'd prefer. Says free shipping which is rather nice.

All in all, I'd rather pay $65 total than up to $127.
(I do like how insectsales includes a habitat, it is on the small side but would make a good temporary habitat if I need to set things up, plus I can just put the contents into my own container when I'm ready.)

((Sorry for all this!!))
 

Arthroverts

Arachnoking
Joined
Jul 11, 2016
Messages
2,462
I have not bought from Ken the Bug Guy due to his high LAG price. I do not know about insectsales.com, you should ask around on these boards for reviews of them.
Bugs in Cyberspace substrate is some of the best, in my opinion, and you definitely want the rotting wood unless you can collect it yourself. Speaking of which, I might have some extra rotting wood if you want some. I still have to sterilize it though. I also have tiny N. gordanus babies, but there not big enough sell.
 

Sadie11

Arachnosquire
Joined
Oct 5, 2017
Messages
54
Ken the Bug Guy is a great site to buy from, but it is more expensive. Bugs in Cyberspace would be my choice of those three options. I’ve never dealt with insect sales.com.
 
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